XMG Pro 17 and Neo 17 panels spec

[XMG Community]

BTW, some components (CPU, keyboard) of ordered laptop marked as "In the inflow". How it will affect delivery time?

Should not affect your order at all. All items and variations for SCHENKER COMPACT 17 with i7-9750H are in stock.

/edit Order number received via PM and expedited. Stock infos on Bestware will be to be fixed tomorrow. All items are in stock.

Cheers,
XMG|Tom

[rusm]

So, finally my New Compact 17 arrived:
1 x 17.3" Full HD IPS | 144 Hz | Thin Bezel LG LP173WFG-SPB1
1 x NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 | 6 GB GDDR6
1 x Intel Core i7-9750H
2 x 16 GB (32 GB) DDR4-2666 Corsair Vengeance
1 x 500 GB M.2 Samsung 970 EVO Plus | PCIe 3.0 x4 | NVMe
1 x 2 TB Seagate FireCuda | 8 GB SSD-Cache
1 x Killer Wireless-AC 1550 | Bluetooth 5.0

Just want to share some facts, houpe it will be useful.
My main question was about new LCD because I need good colors for Photoshop. Laptop have LG LP173WFG-SPB1 panel, and after first look and calibration attempts, I should say that panel looks just brilliant.
- I don't see any noticeable backlight bleeding
- I don't see any PWM (after pen test, I do not have proper equipment), but pen test mean that PWM is higher than 1000Hz or not existing.
- good brightness distribution (uniformity) on the surface
- and finally, very good calibration results with Average DE = 0.29, Maximum DE = 1.44, 95% sRGB Gamut.
Attached Argyll reports, all made with ColorMunki Photo. Calibration was done at 50% backlight (measured 170 cd/m) to target white level 120 cd/m.
16:01:59,851 Uncalibrated response:
16:01:59,851 Black level = 0.2652 cd/m^2
16:01:59,851 50%   level = 75.41 cd/m^2
16:01:59,851 White level = 330.73 cd/m^2
16:01:59,851 Aprox. gamma = 2.13
16:01:59,851 Contrast ratio = 1247:1
16:01:59,851 White chromaticity coordinates 0.3009, 0.3155
16:01:59,851 White    Correlated Color Temperature = 7373K, DE 2K to locus =  3.6
16:01:59,851 White Correlated Daylight Temperature = 7377K, DE 2K to locus =  1.2
16:01:59,851 White        Visual Color Temperature = 7191K, DE 2K to locus =  3.4
16:01:59,851 White     Visual Daylight Temperature = 7436K, DE 2K to locus =  1.1
16:01:59,851 Effective Video LUT entry depth seems to be 8 bits

https://filebin.net/wzoiqemd3keh5g94/lcd.zip?t=6vvgzu7x


Overall laptop impression is wonderful. Only one weak point from my point of view (but I compare with my old Lenovo W-series) - is a keyboard. But this is last problem.

Everything else is very impressive.
- It is really fast, too much fast after 6 years old intel-I7 ;))
- silent when surfing. CPU fan is rotating at minimal speed, but it almost silent: Seagate HDD sounds louder than fan, but it quickly falls asleep.
- not so loud in games as i was afraid. I can comfortably play without headphones.
- compact. I smoothly moved from 15" Thinkpad, they looks just the same size and weight.

Additionally, I want to ask a little help, I can't find some options. I missed it, or it not possible:
1. Has it option to stop charge battery below 100% when at home? This is very good for battery health.
2. Is it possible to use fingerprint reader to enter HDD password when booting?
3. Where is explained  what exact mean 4 power modes in control center? What frequencies limited, etc.?

[XMG Community]

Hi rusm,

thank you for your wonderful feedback!

About the keyboard: I'm sure your impression will get better over time, once you got used to the different feeling of the keycaps and the membrane.

To your questions:

1. On older models we had an option called "FlexiCharger" in the BIOS. I need to double check if this is already implemented on current Insyde-UEFI on PRO series.

2. Using Fingerprint for HDD password at BIOS level is not possible as far as I know. Do you know any laptops which support this feature? Feel free to share picture/video and model name, so I can bring it back to our ODM.

3. The 4 power modes are described in this table:

(https://abload.de/img/perf-profiles-genericm2ka7.png)

* increased GPU TDP only applies to GPU's where NVIDIA has planned for such TDP-up moves. Currently this only affects Max-Q models. In XMG PRO / SCHENKER COMPACT series with Max-P designs, the TDP levels are fixed at 180W for RTX 2060 and 230W for RTX 2070.

The ODM does not want us to share the exact numbers behind each scheme (still up to debate) but I can tell you the CPU TDP numbers for PRO 17 / COMPACT 17 with i7-9750H
Entertainment: 45W PL1, 78W PL2
Performance: 55W PL1, 90W PL2

Cheers,
Tom

[rusm]

Hello Tom.
Thank you, I found FlexiCharger in my bios, it works exactly as I need.

Fingerprint: this feature present in Thinkpad W-series, and I think in following P-series too. When I power on this laptop, I can scan finger just once, and it will unlock BIOS, all HDD passwords, and winlogon. So, it need to be implemented in BIOS and in Windows software.
Here is the manual where described similar functionality: https://www.manualslib.com/manual/720105/Lenovo-Preferred-Pro.html?page=13

In Schenker BIOS HDD unlock process now a bit uncomfortable: before enter password we need use a mouse to pick the hdd before typing (even if only one HDD have password) - a bit excess actions.
If fingerprint functionality can be hard to implement, may I suggest at least, change the way how to enter hdd password: will be better if after power button we can right away start typing first password, then Enter, then the next password if needed. Or hit Esc in any time.
Also, now I see BIOS option to add one password to all HDD at one time - it would be logical if we can also unlock all HDD with this single password, but this not working.


Keyboard: For me main difference is not a membrane, but keys positioning design - groups of keys not separated (f-keys for example can be divided by 3 groups, arrow keys divided from others, etc) So when I want work fast use touch typing, keyboard looks too uniformly. Anyway, this is minor inconvenience to which I can get used.

Thank you for great machine.

[LappyLuke]

So, finally my New Compact 17 arrived:
1 x 17.3" Full HD IPS | 144 Hz | Thin Bezel LG LP173WFG-SPB1
1 x NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 | 6 GB GDDR6
1 x Intel Core i7-9750H
2 x 16 GB (32 GB) DDR4-2666 Corsair Vengeance
1 x 500 GB M.2 Samsung 970 EVO Plus | PCIe 3.0 x4 | NVMe
1 x 2 TB Seagate FireCuda | 8 GB SSD-Cache
1 x Killer Wireless-AC 1550 | Bluetooth 5.0

Just want to share some facts, houpe it will be useful.
My main question was about new LCD because I need good colors for Photoshop. Laptop have LG LP173WFG-SPB1 panel, and after first look and calibration attempts, I should say that panel looks just brilliant.
- I don't see any noticeable backlight bleeding
- I don't see any PWM (after pen test, I do not have proper equipment), but pen test mean that PWM is higher than 1000Hz or not existing.
- good brightness distribution (uniformity) on the surface
- and finally, very good calibration results with Average DE = 0.29, Maximum DE = 1.44, 95% sRGB Gamut.
Attached Argyll reports, all made with ColorMunki Photo. Calibration was done at 50% backlight (measured 170 cd/m) to target white level 120 cd/m.

[...]

Hey, thanks for you impressions.

You said you didn't notice any noticeable backlight bleeding.
Could you please post some pictures/video of your display @ backlight bleeding test?
I'm trying to decide if my panel on the Pro variant is acceptable or not and need some comparison from other users.
Thanks!  :)

[rusm]

Hello.
Here is a photo with max brightness in dark room (one tungsten 30w lamp behind the screen).
https://filebin.net/unoxg2wu3vfbvw7v/P1990225.jpg?t=9jn4aqll

It looks close to what I can see by eyes, very small problem in bottom left. In real world, with proper light, screen looks just black.

Please note, that I have new 17" model with LG LP173WFG-SPB1 panel.

[LappyLuke]

Hello.
Here is a photo with max brightness in dark room (one tungsten 30w lamp behind the screen).
https://filebin.net/unoxg2wu3vfbvw7v/P1990225.jpg?t=9jn4aqll

It looks close to what I can see by eyes, very small problem in bottom left. In real world, with proper light, screen looks just black.

Please note, that I have new 17" model with LG LP173WFG-SPB1 panel.

Yeah you've got a good screen from what I can tell, really just a bit of BLB, though its not really a dark room  :D

[thom]

Is LP173WFG-SPB1 also used in the new version of Schenker Media 17 ?

[XMG Community]

Is LP173WFG-SPB1 also used in the new version of Schenker Media 17 ?

Coincidentally, yes.

But you already guessed so from the advertised 95% sRGB in both COMPACT 17 and MEDIA 17. You guessed correctly! :)

Cheers,
XMG|Tom

[Malcolm]

Hi rusm,

feedback:

1. In the ultimate fight of XMG PRO 17 vs. XMG NEO 17, the NEO actually runs a bit quieter and slightly cooler.

XMG NEO 17XMG PRO 17Furmark/PrimeNoise51 db54 dbmax. CPU Temp96°C97°Cmax. GPU Temp70°C79°Caverage CPU Speed3440 Mhz3107 Mhzaverage GPU Speed1065 Mhz1325 MhzWitcher 3Noise47 dB53 dBmax. CPU Temp84°C94°Cmax. GPU Temp72°C73°Caverage CPU Speed3882 Mhz3876 Mhzaverage GPU Speed1440 Mhz1395 Mhz

Values taken from samples in February and March 2019. Both samples with i7-8750H, 2x 16GB RAM and RTX 2060 Max-P.
The upgrade to i7-9750H does not make a difference in either of these. Pending further tweaks and driver updates, your milage may vary.

Any more questions, feel free to ask!

Cheers,
XMG|Tom

Hello!
I am looking to buy XMG PRO 17 (2019)
But I can not understand why its so hot.
The cooling system looks pretty good, but why such a high temperature?
Over 90 °C its a lot. Did you use it without pad?
And one more - can you tell which models(XMG) have the best cooling system?

[XMG Community]

Hello!

those values are taken under unter the "Performance" Setting in the most extreme situations. Taken without thermal pad - just laptop on desk. Temperatures drops significantly if you use some G-SYNC frame limiting.

Why are things hot? Because Intel and NVIDIA have consistently raised their power demands for each generation. For example, the CPU might say "TDP 45W" on paper, but in order to reach the advertised Turbo Boost values, the CPU in "Performance" profile actually goes up to 90W for 48 seconds, then stays at 55W.

Anyway, in real-world situations the temperatures are lower. And the temperature read-outs are deep in the CPU/GPU cores, not on the mainboard.
By the way, NVIDIA's recommended maximum core temperature is 87°C while Intel's is close to 100°C.

The best cooling system we have in XMG ULTRA Series, but it comes at the price of weight and volume. Overall, all high-end series like XMG CORE, NEO, PRO, ULTRA and SCHENKER KEY and MEDIA have pretty good cooling systems now and a lot of options for customizations, including CPU undervolting.

Cheers,
XMG|Tom

[LappyLuke]

Hey there. I will just crosspost this over here from the thread"[Sammelthread] XMG PRO + SCHENKER COMPACT (2019)" and translate my topic in english (see quote at the end for german original post):

I had a look on the Schenker Compact 15 which is basicly the PB5xEXX/7xExx and researched on the used display panel:

It seems it does not have the B173HAN04.0 (AUO409D) panel (as the XMG PRO version has it) but instead the NV173FHM-N44 (BOE07B6) panel.

LaptopPanel TypeModel NamesRGBXMG PRO 17 FHD 144HzAUO B173HAN04.0 (H/W:0A)86,2%XMG NEO 17FHD 144HzBOE NV173FHM-N4491,3%SCHENKER COMPACT 17 (Early 2019)FHD 144HzBOE NV173FHM-N4491,3%SCHENKER COMPACT 17 (Mid 2019)FHD 144HzLG LP173WFG-SPB195,2%

Panellook (and NBC) lists the BOE with a response time 30 (Typ.)(Tr+Td) ms, whereas the  AUO only has 9 (Typ.)(Tr+Td); 7 (Typ.)(G to G) ms.

Does anybody have some experience with it or rather would you guys say it's an actually noticeably higher response time for gaming?

Are these actually trustworthy information on the panel websites like panellook?
In the NBC test of the XMG NEO 17 it's the same display panel but it is listed with:
- Response Time Grey 50% / Grey 80% * ---> 18.8 ms
- Response Time Black / White * ---> 12 ms

So what is actually the case?


Original post in german:

Na aber gern!

LaptopPanel TypeModel NamesRGBXMG PRO 17 FHD 144HzAUO B173HAN04.0 (H/W:0A)86,2%XMG NEO 17FHD 144HzBOE NV173FHM-N4491,3%SCHENKER COMPACT 17 (Early 2019)FHD 144HzBOE NV173FHM-N4491,3%SCHENKER COMPACT 17 (Mid 2019)FHD 144HzLG LP173WFG-SPB195,2%

Du kannst hier die ICM-Profile runterladen:

BOE NV173FHM-N44.zip
LG LP173WFG-SPB1.zip
AUO B173HAN04.0.zip

Jede ZIP enthält eine Excel-Datei mit den vollständigen, von uns gemessenen Display-Werten. Dieselben Werte kannst du mit der Software DisplayCAL auch aus der ICM-Farbprofil-Datei auslesen.

Kalibrierte Grüße,
XMG|Tom

Guten Tag.

Ich interessiere mich für das Schenker Compact 17 und habe eine Frage zum verbauten Display Panel.

@XMG|Tom: du hast ja hier geschrieben, dass im COMPACT 17 (so wie auch im NEO 17) das Panel NV173FHM-N44 (BOE07B6) verbaut wird.
Im XMG PRO hingegen wird das B173HAN04.0 (AUO409D) verbaut.

Nun habe ich diese beiden Displays aber mal verglichen und festgestellt, dass das BOE Display vom COMPACT 17 eine deutlich langsamere Reaktionszeit hat:

Während das AUO nur 9ms Reaktionszeit hat, braucht das BOE ganze 30ms!

Laptop[/b]Panel TypeDisplay BezeichnungReaktionsgeschwindigkeitXMG PRO 17 FHD 144HzAUO B173HAN04.0 (H/W:0A)9 (Typ.)(Tr+Td); 7 (Typ.)(G to G) msSCHENKER COMPACT 17 (Early 2019)FHD 144HzBOE NV173FHM-N4430 (Typ.)(Tr+Td) ms

Auch das von NBC getestete Eurocom Nightsky des selben Modells (PB7xExx) hat das gleiche Display NV173FHM-N44 (BOE07B6) verbaut.
Außerdem soll es lt. NBC mit PWM bis 99% Helligkeit (also quasi dauerhaft) arbeiten um die Helligkeit zu regulieren, was zu gesundheitlichen Problemen führen kann.

(Anmerkung: bei den technischen Details steht beim BOE 60hz. Das ist wohl ein Fehler, da das Display ganz eindeutig mit 144hz verkauft und vermarktet wird)

Das erscheint mir doch wirklich sehr krass zu sein und nun bin ich besorgt, dass das Display des COMPACT aufgrund der hohen Reakionszeit von 30ms gar nicht zum spielen von Spielen geeignet ist, obwohl man eine RTX 2070 kauft.
Vergleicht man das mit Gaming-Laptops von anderen Herstellern sieht man Reaktionszeit-Angaben von 1 - 3ms.

Ist das Compact also deshalb gar nicht geeignet/gedacht für Spiele sondern nur für Videoschnitt etc.?
Das bereitet mir ehrlich gesagt schon Sorgen und schreckt mich etwas ab, da ich das Notebook neben Multimedia-Zwecken hauptsächlich auch zum Spielen verwenden möchte.

Könntest du dazu etwas sagen @XMG|Tom?
Stimmen die Daten so tatsächlich?

Liebe Grüße

[XMG Community]

I had a look on the Schenker Compact 15 which is basicly the PB5xEXX/7xExx and researched on the used display panel:

It seems it does not have the B173HAN04.0 (AUO409D) panel (as the XMG PRO version has it) but instead the NV173FHM-N44 (BOE07B6) panel.

Sorry, so much conflicting information. You write SCHENKER COMPACT 15 (which is a 15.6" laptop), but you list a lot of 17.3" panels. What laptop exactly are you looking for?

Panellook (and NBC) lists the BOE with a response time 30 (Typ.)(Tr+Td) ms, whereas the  AUO only has 9 (Typ.)(Tr+Td); 7 (Typ.)(G to G) ms.

Are these actually trustworthy information on the panel websites like panellook?

Panellook is taking these numbers from the official spec sheets of the panel vendors. We have these original PDF files in our storage.
Long story short: while these numbers might be "true", they are not reliable to compare against each other. The vendors are using different measuring criteria against each other and NBC is using a very different criteria: 50% to 80% and back to 50% grey. This is much harsher than panel vendor's internal criteria and will always lead to bigger "ms" (millisecond) numbers.

Here a little excursion on this topic in German:

Beispiel: Response Times bei Innolux N156HHE-GA1

Hersteller wirbt mit typischerweise 3ms ,,G2G"
Der Maximal-Wert ist mit 8ms angegeben – die Fertigungstoleranz kann also recht hoch sein, wenn man Pech hat.

G2G steht für ,,Grey to Grey" – aber wie ist das bei diesem Hersteller definiert?

(https://abload.de/img/innolux-g2g_550pxxrjmp.png)

Der Hersteller testet alle diese Permutationen dieser Kombinationen: 0, 31, 63, 95, 127, 59, 191, 223 und 255
Die diagonale Linie in der Tabelle des Herstellers stellt dar, dass identische Kombinationen (wie etwa von Null zu Null) nicht berücksichtigt werden und somit das Gesamtergebnis nicht verfälschen.

Diese Kombinationen können sowohl aufsteigend (von dunkel zu hell: ,,Rise", aufsteigend) als auch abfallend (umgekehrt: ,,Fall", fallend) sein.
Sie sind also ein Durchschnitt aus allen Rise- bzw. Fall-Werten, aber niemals die Kombination aus beidem.

Fazit: es wird also aus allen Grau/Grau-Kombinationen der Durchschnitt errechnet. Grau hoch oder Grau runter. Ergebnis: 3ms bei einem typischen Panel dieses Modells. Bei Notebookcheck und andere Portalen hingegen wird die Summe von Rise und Fall angegeben - und dazu noch von dem worst-case 50/80/50-Szenario. Warum ist das der Worst Case? Da für die Änderung von nur "kleinen" Helligkeitsunterschieden (50% zu 80%) nur weniger Spannung am Pixel anliegt und deshalb die Änderung langsamer eintritt. Bei einem 0/100 (Schwarz/Weiß)-Wechsel hingegen kann das Panel Vollgas geben und den Pixel sichtbar schneller kippen.

In der Definition von Innolux kommt außerdem das Wort ODC vor: Over Drive Circuit. Diese Overdrive-Funktion wird von den Laptop-OEM's aber in der Regel nicht aktiviert, weil sie zu zusätzlichem Stromverbrauch und damit kürzeren Akkulaufzeiten führt. (Offenbar lässt sich ODC nicht dynamisch je nach Energiesparmodus steuern)

Letztlich sind also selbst die besten Ergebnisse im Datenblatt nur ein "best case scenario" - für einen belastbaren Vergleich muss man selber messen, so wie Notebookcheck das sehr schön macht.

VG,
XMG|Tom

[LappyLuke]

I had a look on the Schenker Compact 15 which is basicly the PB5xEXX/7xExx and researched on the used display panel:

It seems it does not have the B173HAN04.0 (AUO409D) panel (as the XMG PRO version has it) but instead the NV173FHM-N44 (BOE07B6) panel.

Sorry, so much conflicting information. You write SCHENKER COMPACT 15 (which is a 15.6" laptop), but you list a lot of 17.3" panels. What laptop exactly are you looking for?

Sorry Tom, I got the model name mixed up.
I mean the SCHENKER COMPACT 17. The rest was right, so the mentioned display panel matches the 17 inch screen of the COMPACT 17/PRO 17.
Thanks for the insights into the panel benchmarking.

I'm specifically wondering about the NV173FHM-N44 (BOE07B6) that is built into the COMPACT 17, as this seems to be have 30 ms response time.

Panellook (and NBC) lists the BOE with a response time 30 (Typ.)(Tr+Td) ms, whereas the  AUO only has 9 (Typ.)(Tr+Td); 7 (Typ.)(G to G) ms.

Are these actually trustworthy information on the panel websites like panellook?

Panellook is taking these numbers from the official spec sheets of the panel vendors. We have these original PDF files in our storage.
Long story short: while these numbers might be "true", they are not reliable to compare against each other. The vendors are using different measuring criteria against each other and NBC is using a very different criteria: 50% to 80% and back to 50% grey. This is much harsher than panel vendor's internal criteria and will always lead to bigger "ms" (millisecond) numbers.

[...]

VG,
XMG|Tom

You're saying that NBC display tests are harsh and thus less optimistic (worse in the results) than the given spec sheet numbers.

However, in this case the tested response time by NBC is lower (better) than the spec sheet numbers by Panellook.

NV173FHM-N44 (BOE07B6)
Panellook says:
--> 30 ms

NBC says for the XMG NEO 17 (which has exactly this Display, just as the COMPACT 17 aswell):
--> Response Time Grey 50% / Grey 80% 18.8 ms
--> Response Time Black / White 12 ms

So I think it's weird, that NBC has better values listed there. They even say that for the NEO display that "the response time is pretty good for an IPS screen".
EDIT: at the EUROCOM NIGHTSKY review (which again also has the exact same display panel built in) they list it with 16.4 (G/G) and 10.4 (W/B).

Also, at Panellook the NV173FHM-N44 (BOE07B6) is listed with 60hz instead 144hz besides the 30ms information. Is this just a typo of does this indicate that the built in dispay with 144hz is actually a different display model with another (better?) response time?

(or do you have to actually view the NBC results as a combined result? so 18.8ms + 12ms = 30.8ms ...which would fit the spec sheet info)

Greetings,
Luke.

[XMG Community]

However, in this case the tested response time by NBC is lower (better) than the spec sheet numbers by Panellook.

NV173FHM-N44 (BOE07B6)
Panellook says:
--> 30 ms

Sorry, my mistake. Judged too quickly again.

I now had a serious look at my PDF spec sheet of BOE NV173FHM-N44 (BOE07B6).

Here is the relevant info:

(https://abload.de/img/boe_nv173fhm-n4_v3.1_4vjtl.png)
Click image for full view.

So in BOE NV173FHM-N44 the Black/White reponse time definition is actually 10%/90% (instead of 0 to 100) with 10.2ms for ON+OFF.

The "GTG" (grey-to-grey) response time is defined with 8ms "Typical, w/o Over Drive". The definition of "GTG" is actually not stated in the document itself (good job, BOE!), but I guess it is the same kind of average as described in my Innolux example above.

Bottom line: the data on Panellook is incorrect and probably copy/pasted from an inferior 60Hz panel. I just created an account there and notified them about the mistake.

(Unfortunately we can't release the full PDF files of these panels due to NDA.)

The real-world response times in BOE NV173FHM-N44 (SCHENKER COMPACT 17) are within very acceptable range for gaming, as you would expect from a 144Hz screen. The measurements from NBC confirm this assesment. Great panel, go for it!

Cheers,
XMG|Tom