AMD Zen 5 Strix Point CPU analysis - Ryzen AI 9 HX 370 versus Intel Core Ultra, Apple M3 and Qualcomm Snapdragon X Elite

[Worgarthe]

In 5 years they get outdated and adding ram will not make them modern anyway.
Compare something like mac mini 2018 with 100w 8700B and modern ryzen minipc and pretend you can make mac mini quicker and less power hungry 5.5 years later in in 2024 by shoveling in more of those outdated DDR4 2666 sticks. Same with laptops, how many ram are you going to add to crappy hot 3hr-on-battery intel machine to make it great again.
I'm tired of "soldered ram is bad".

You replied to vladteapa and missed the whole crucial part, I'll B and U it:

No soldered RAM laptops will sell "like crazy", at their current prices, no matter the OS they're running.

Steve1, is it cheaper to buy the lowest possible config (or even without RAM at all, like you can with Framework or with XMG/Schenker for example), and then add your own, or pay insane premium OEM "taxes" where for each +8 GB you can get +64 GB on the regular market?

Check the Crucial 32GB DDR5-4800, 32 GB stick goes for around 85€ here in Europe. I'll take Apple here for comparison, nothing against Apple but they are arguably the most transparent with their prices so that's the reason; 14 M3 Pro with 1 TB SSD, I'll keep everything the same but just add more RAM:

• 8 GB: 1600€
• 16 GB: 1878€ (+278€)
• 18 GB: 1994€ (+116€)
• 24 GB: 2220€ (+226€)
• 36 GB: 2579€ (+359€)
• 48 GB: skipped this one because there is some current promo ongoing
• 64 GB: 4109€ (+1530€)

So to get 64 GB + 1 TB you pay +2509€ more! That's 39.20€ per GB of RAM.

Then back to that previously mentioned Crucial 32GB DDR5-4800 for 85€; double that and you get 64 GB for 170€ total, 2.65€ per GB or RAM.

"Just" 14.8 times cheaper upgrade. Do you get 14.8 times faster laptop with soldered RAM? Do you get 14.8 times longer batter life with soldered RAM? Rhetorical questions.

Same applies for storage...

I mean, for the premium of +2509€ to upgrade to 64 GB RAM model, you can build a great and very powerful desktop with more RAM, plus instead of buying a base model M3 Pro 8 GB you get an M3 Air 16 GB for on the go, to get great battery life - and have about 200€ left to keep.

[batury]

1) It's not flexible, you have to estimate today how much ram you'll need in next 2+ years. But today you only use browser on your laptop and even 16gigs is enough, so why pay additional 500 eur for a 32 gigs model? But in 6 month you decide, let's say, to run some LLM locally and you can't because of ram limitation. And you can't upgrade it, so you go and buy new laptop..

Expectation - today you are only using a browser and tomorrow you are a top coder running 10 docker containers and LLM and 2 VMs.
Reality - you always can estimate how much ram you need and/or if you are stupid just ask online or go with today's "default value" 16-32.

It's cheaper to buy 8gigs laptop and then upgrade it with 32gigs when needed for like 150eur instead of overpaying 700 eur initially for a 32gig model.

Pick a laptop that doesn't require 700eur for 32gb, there's lots for every budget today, get xiaomi if you don't have money for apple or surface.

if ram goes faulty - you have to buy a new laptop instead of just replacing the ram

These stories about "faulty ram" happen maybe in 5 laptops out of 10 thousands, and it's usually some chinese noname ram user bought to save money or something badly overclocked.

Steve1, is it cheaper to buy the lowest possible config

As i've said, get a xiaomi, their base 32G config is dirt cheap.

skipped this one because there is some current promo ongoing

Very convenient skip, so why not get a promo lol, just because it doesn't fit into your "theory"? There's also a ton of apple refurbs.
Play with the money you have, there are always options. I don't accept "i want to save" argument as valid.

[batury]

• 8 GB: 1600€
• 16 GB: 1878€ (+278€)
• 18 GB: 1994€ (+116€)
• 24 GB: 2220€ (+226€)
• 36 GB: 2579€ (+359€)
• 48 GB: skipped this one because there is some current promo ongoing
• 64 GB: 4109€ (+1530€)

Is there even 14 inch M3 Pro with more ram than 36Gb? Looks like you were jumping over to M3 Max 40 core and conveniently ignored the fact you are paying for top CPU "ahmagad +1530 eur ahmagad".

[Worgarthe]

skipped this one because there is some current promo ongoing

Very convenient skip, so why not get a promo lol, just because it doesn't fit into your "theory"? There's also a ton of apple refurbs.

Yeah I'm well-aware that thinking is too difficult these days, it's summer after all so brain tends to throttle, so here's the answer - because 48 GB is still far more expensive than 2x 32 GB stick even with the promo. It is 2995€ on that promo, so still +416€ more over the 36 GB model. 416€ for 12 GB, or 340€ for 128 GB? Choices, choices...

Play with the money you have, there are always options. I don't accept "i want to save" argument as valid.

Sure, you see perfect sense to pay 2500€ for 64 GB, many people don't and they will rather go with shelling 170€ for the same capacity. All fair for everyone.

[batury]

I'm well-aware that thinking is too difficult these days

Says the person who couldn't even notice he switched from M3Pro to M3Max while making his "table" and thus completely invalidated his opinion in a blink.
I agree, thinking is difficult.

you see perfect sense to pay 2500€ for 64 GB

Are you double downing on that stupidity or you still don't understand it's mostly price for (much) better CPU. There's no 14 M3Pro with more than 36Gb ram.

[batury]

So just to explain again, this dude picked
MBP M3 8Gb for 1600 usd
compared it to top of the line unbinned
MBP M3 Max 40 core 64 Gb for 3900 usd
and claimed the difference 2400 usd is for ram. )))

And these guys tell you how to save money with a serious face.

[Steve1]

Am I late to the party?
Gang is so eager to play "Apple card" while they can buy "Xiaomi RedmiBook something 2024 meteor lake 32G/1Tb" for 900 eur if they want cheap soldered ram and don't understand and/or like Apple prices. I laughed so hard when that guy said he would replace mac book pro m3max with a "desktop and M3 Air 16 GB". Everything you have to know about "soldered ram is bad" gang - they are generally clueless and have only two tricks, "cheaper cheaper" and "upgrade upgrade", both of which are just LOL for anyone with more than 5 active brain cells.

[vladteapa]

Soldered RAM is bad and has been bad from the beginning. There's always a ridiculous premium markup going for the next tier and it's a recipe for more e-waste.

16GB on Windows machines with integrated graphics, is bad for anything above light office work and browsing the web. I'm using 2 laptops, one with 16GB and one with 32GB, and it's a very different experience when I go beyond light office work and browsing.

[Dan6]

1) It's not flexible, you have to estimate today how much ram you'll need in next 2+ years. But today you only use browser on your laptop and even 16gigs is enough, so why pay additional 500 eur for a 32 gigs model? But in 6 month you decide, let's say, to run some LLM locally and you can't because of ram limitation. And you can't upgrade it, so you go and buy new laptop..

Expectation - today you are only using a browser and tomorrow you are a top coder running 10 docker containers and LLM and 2 VMs.
Reality - you always can estimate how much ram you need and/or if you are stupid just ask online or go with today's "default value" 16-32.

It's cheaper to buy 8gigs laptop and then upgrade it with 32gigs when needed for like 150eur instead of overpaying 700 eur initially for a 32gig model.

Pick a laptop that doesn't require 700eur for 32gb, there's lots for every budget today, get xiaomi if you don't have money for apple or surface.

if ram goes faulty - you have to buy a new laptop instead of just replacing the ram

These stories about "faulty ram" happen maybe in 5 laptops out of 10 thousands, and it's usually some chinese noname ram user bought to save money or something badly overclocked.

Steve1, is it cheaper to buy the lowest possible config

As i've said, get a xiaomi, their base 32G config is dirt cheap.

skipped this one because there is some current promo ongoing

Very convenient skip, so why not get a promo lol, just because it doesn't fit into your "theory"? There's also a ton of apple refurbs.
Play with the money you have, there are always options. I don't accept "i want to save" argument as valid.

Nah, you don't even try to understand. Not always life is so predictable to estimate. I never had carrier changes or any courses taken? So your approach is to buy max ram all the time.. And no, I don't want some cheap laptop, I want Surface and it's not even available in my region with 32gigs.. so what? I should fly to US because I want good laptop with 32gigs?

[George]

I want Surface and it's not even available in my region with 32gigs.. so what? I should fly to US because I want good laptop with 32gigs?

He didn't tell you anything about "max ram", he has told you "today's default value is 16-32" and you want surface with soldered ram! 32!! so why did you even write your message. Some kind of a weird way of confirming your opponent was right.

16GB on Windows machines with integrated graphics, is bad for anything above light office work and browsing the web. I'm using 2 laptops, one with 16GB and one with 32GB, and it's a very different experience when I go beyond light office work and browsing.

I kinda have to agree now you guys are clueless.

[ANTONY_Computer]

I'm seeing comments about the 16GB Surface and its high price of $2,000, well if you look you have better alternatives with the MINISFORUM V3, watch it on YouTube and you'll see the difference and you'll only spend $1,200. The difference is huge not only in price but also in performance and in the iGPU where RDNA 3 is superior to Intel Iris Xe.

[gnfnfgfdb]

Minisforum bots are worse than t-shirt bots on X

[GeorgeS]

sigh

I'm sorry but it would appear that many of you live in a FAR DIFFERENT world/reality than I do as for +40yrs each and every company I ever worked for PROVIDED any and all tools & equipment needed (IE: read COMPUTERS) to do whatever job they were asking & paying me for.

Personally the countless desktops and laptops I've owned I've NEVER had a RAM module fail. While I'd agree that ALL OEM's place a premium on RAM & storage (some more than others) shoppers can save sizeable amounts of $$ if they can do upgrades themselves.

With the above said even 8GB/128GB is plenty for the majority of people. As an example at a company that employs >100K <%10 need 32GB and <%2 need >=64GB to do their jobs. :)

[SmithA]

While I'd agree that ALL OEM's place a premium on RAM

People here referred many times to Xiaomi with cheap soldered ram yet everyone has a blind spot for it and focuses on Apple and Microsoft for absolutely no reason.

[Dan6]

I want Surface and it's not even available in my region with 32gigs.. so what? I should fly to US because I want good laptop with 32gigs?

He didn't tell you anything about "max ram", he has told you "today's default value is 16-32" and you want surface with soldered ram! 32!! so why did you even write your message. Some kind of a weird way of confirming your opponent was right.

Why, no, I don't want Surface with soldered ram, I want Surface with swappable ram! Read through entire thread.. It wasn't reply to his first statement.. I probably had to cut the quotes to avoid misunderstanding. I replied specifically to this statement:
"Pick a laptop that doesn't require 700eur for 32gb, there's lots for every budget today, get xiaomi if you don't have money for apple or surface."

And my point is that swappable ram is good, because I could just buy 16 gigs surface (or any other laptop I like) and upgrade ram to any amount I need and do not limit my search by ram. Guys, swappable ram isn't about "saving money" as Apple taught you..

And yeah, it's just an example of why swappable ram is good from my previous experience. I have no intention to buy any laptop now.