EV gas price equivalent pegged at $17 a gallon with all federal or indirect subsidies

[Redaktion]

While higher fuel prices moved the needle in favor of electric cars in many a direct charging rate vs gas prices comparison in the past year or so, the calculation is not that simple. A Texas Public Policy Foundation study claims that the hidden costs of owning an EV are way higher.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/EV-gas-price-equivalent-pegged-at-17-a-gallon-with-all-federal-or-indirect-subsidies.772683.0.html

[D. H.]

This report is nothing but FUD sponsored by fossil fuel companies.

The exact same can be said of the environmental and social costs of if carbon based fuels.

I'm really disappointed in you, NotebookCheck, for spreading this garbage.

[KulkieT]

they forgot to mention regular gasoline cost is 13$ per gallon without subsidies form government

[Mindbreaker]

It is so obviously nonsense that few people bothered to even comment. Obviously, it costs money to build charging stations, but you don't have to build them over and over again. It has to be amortized, which obviously they did not do. And strain on the grid is preposterous. Even today, EVs are a small percentage of the vehicles on the road, and they generally charge at night when there is low demand and cheaper to produce power. Also, whatever tax credit we give, it is not for one year typically. People drive a car for years, and even if they sell it, that car continues to be driven for 18 years or so.
Even in the future, strain on the grid is nonsense. It will take until 2053 at the earliest to reach 80% EV.  That is plenty of time to build the grid. And we will be building it better and better, with cheaper and cheaper power.
The next big energy boom I predict will be new geothermal tech where they use fracking with just sand and water, and horizontal drilling. This has a very small footprint, and we could get enormous quantities of energy for very low cost.   

[Sinocelt]

This is either very biased or very lazy journalism, for reasons other posters have already pointed out.

[A]

Why are you peddling a pro-fossil fuel group propaganda? "In 2010, TPPF received funding from Koch Industries as well as Geo Prison Group, a GEO Group company"

The cost to the utility to serve this load - including replacement and upgrade of transformers, circuits, feeders, and transmission lines, as well as extra overhead costs like metering and billing required to service the charging stations - is socialized across all the utility's ratepayers and not directly charged to the EV owners.

No it is not. If the grid ever needs adding of transformers or transmission lines and etc, unless it was something the utility was going to do anyways, you have to pay for it yourself. Try calling up a utility and say you want to upgrade your service for free, they'll think you are prank calling. Part of the reason level 3 chargers are including batteries with chargers aren't just for the sake of storing power but also limit their costs of peak power demand and limit how much they have to pay for grid upgrades. It is also why electricity at level 3 chargers. It is also why you pay around 2-3x for electricity at a level 3 charger than you do at home

Not to mention 90%+ of charging happens at home, not at level 3 chargers to begin with

When accounting for such indirect subsidies, not to mention the extra cost of emission regulations on gas-powered vehicles

What in the world does "extra cost of emission regulations on gas-powered vehicles" suppose to mean or have anything to do with EVs? If anything, we should add indirect costs of gasoline vehicles, things like harm to health, war in Iraq, all the military we spend protecting oil and etc

"average EV accrues $48,698 in subsidies and $4,569 in extra charging and electricity costs over a 10-year period, for a total cost of $53,267, or $16.12 per equivalent gallon of gasoline," which is more than four times the current average cost per gallon of gas in the US.

Wait, so they took all that cost of infrastructure that lasts decades, and divided it by 10 years on top of current EVs on road and not all future ones? Can we also put the bill on gasoline for the cost of the highway system built? They tore up horse roads for that too, so we should include damage that did to horse hoofs. Then divide up the cost onto total ICE cars on the road in first 10 years.

[A]

They just need to send every EV vehicle owner to Congo for a year to extract cobalt instead of children. I'd agree it's a fair replacement for road tax.

[A]

They just need to send every EV vehicle owner to Congo for a year to extract cobalt instead of children. I'd agree it's a fair replacement for road tax.

Part of the EV tax incentives is things like domestic mining and recycling of materials for batteries including cobalt

Meanwhile, cobalt used for refining oil will likely still come from children in congo. How about sending every ICE car owner to congo to mine cobalt instead?

[A]

Part of the EV tax incentives is things like domestic mining and recycling of materials for batteries including cobalt

You think it's a healthy job even without child labor?

Meanwhile, cobalt used for refining oil will likely still come from children in congo. How about sending every ICE car owner to congo to mine cobalt instead?

Nah, ICE car owners never hide behind "saving the planet" ignorant sh*t.

EV car owners will mine cobalt for all of us, they use 40% of it anyway. Fair? Fair. And would be nice to send them on annual revitalizing vacation to health-inducing lithium mines.

[A]

Part of the EV tax incentives is things like domestic mining and recycling of materials for batteries including cobalt

So feel free to elaborate how several bucks you've paid makes you feel better about your car being powered by dead children.

[A]

You think it's a healthy job even without child labor?

No different than any other mining job or fossil fuel extraction. Only difference is you aren't burning it.

Nah, ICE car owners never hide behind "saving the planet" ignorant sh*t.

Ah, so you don't actually care about child labor, for oil you'd gladly enslave children in congo yourself, right? You should have just said that from the beginning

EV car owners will mine cobalt for all of us, they use 40% of it anyway. Fair? Fair. And would be nice to send them on annual revitalizing vacation to health-inducing lithium mines.

You are confusing new cobalt usage with overall cobalt usage. Oil used far far more cobalt. EVs are a new demand for cobalt, but as EVs hit 100%, cobalt usage would drop dramatically and majority of it is recycled. It's like having a store the size of a walmart, and complaining about how much land usage a new mom and pop store uses

On top of that not all EV batteries even use cobalt, like LFP do not

End of the day, be it cobalt or lithium, all parts of the battery are recyclable. Now, how much of burning fossil fuels is recyclable? yeah, thought so.

So feel free to elaborate how several bucks you've paid makes you feel better about your car being powered by dead children.

The cobalt doesn't power your car, it is used as a stabilizer for the battery. What powers the car is electricity.

Overall, as far as poor 3rd world countries like the congo goes, the children there choice is either work or starve. You can't apply first world standards to the 3rd world, there is no right answer. All answers are bad unfortunately. Ultimately, only way to make things better is improve their standard of living and access to education. Of course you could care less

[A]

No different than any other mining job or fossil fuel extraction. Only difference is you aren't burning it.

Ah, so you don't actually care about child labor, for oil you'd gladly enslave children in congo yourself, right? You should have just said that from the beginning

The cobalt doesn't power your car, it is used as a stabilizer for the battery. What powers the car is electricity.

and majority of it is recycled

Congo does 50% of world cobalt mining, batteries use 40% of extracted cobalt (and it's rapidly growing due to EVs). Fair? Fair. So you going to cobalt mines to save planet AND children or you are going to drown me in boring demagogy?

Oil used far far more cobalt.

7% of all extracted, we can do it without Congo btw.

Overall, as far as poor 3rd world countries like the congo goes, the children there choice is either work or starve.

Yeah I gotcha, so it's fiiiine, it's just couple thousand dead per year. Saving planet is more important.

[NikoB]

Bot "A", you need to be turned off. You're delusional. Apparently your model is broken. Where have your service technicians gone?

Living people have already understood who you really are. Your architects have completely s*** themselves.

[A]

Bot "A", you need to be turned off. You're delusional. Apparently your model is broken. Where have your service technicians gone?
Living people have already understood who you really are. Your architects have completely s*** themselves.

Stop acting like a mad clown

[anan]

This whole article needs a giant /S tag at the end. Like the stuff they put into the EV bill is ridiculous. They've basically tacked on all the electricity infrastructure upgrades for the next decade. All of this just to produce a very scary number of 17$ per gallon. Without a doubt this number is meant for any politician who later on tries to justify an exorbitant tax on EVs. Just this year TX levied taxes on EVs that make them more expensive than ICE cars by a disproportional amount (even if you take their higher weight into account).
So they've added any cost they could find to EVs and compared that number to average fuel cost. But god forbid someone tries to calculate the health cost of burning fossil fuels right into our faces then they cry foul.