Apple MacBook Pro 16 2023 M3 Max im Test - Mit dem M3 Max gegen die HX-CPUs von AMD & Intel

[Gastredner]

Vielen Dank für den interessanten und ausgewogenen Test! Würde Apple zumindest bei seinem Spitzenprodukt endlich von dieser werblichen Ultraflachbauweise abrücken, wäre das Macbook ein toller Konkurrent für die Windows Highend Konkurrenz. Tut mir leid, aber 1,7cm und 2,1kg sind echt lachhaft für ein angebliches Workstationflaggschiff.

Warum will Apple nicht verstehen, dass nicht jeder sein Notebook pausenlos durch die Gegend trägt? Mein Macbook von 2011 war 2,6kg schwer. Für das Transportieren zur Couch, auf den Balkon, in den Urlaub oder ab und zu ins Büro brauche ich kein ultra leichtes und erst recht kein ultra dünnes Gehäuse! Seit Apple vor fast 20 Jahren mit seinem Macbook Air diesen Schwachsinnstrend angestoßen hat, glaubt jeder, er könne nicht halb so viel Gewicht tragen, wie der kleine Filius jeden Tag im Rucksack zur Schule. Das ist doch peinlich.

"angesichts des maximalen Stromverbrauches von 60 Watt sind die Ergebnisse hervorragend, es gibt aber schnellere mobile Grafikkarten von Nvidia."

Gut auf den Punkt gebracht. Apple stirbt mal wieder in Effizienz und lässt Leistung liegen, weil deren schnellstes Notebook 1,7(!) cm dünn sein muss (facepalm). Andreas hat im 14er Macbook-Test richtig beschrieben, dass die Macbooks dicker und wuchtiger aussehen als sie sind. Was für ein Designfail. Die Macbooks sind genauso ultra flach wie die vorigen Intelmodelle, die dank keilförmigem Design sogar noch schlanker aussahen. Mit einem 4-5 mm  "dickeren" Gehäuse im Keildesign sähe das Macbook noch halbwegs schlank aus und wäre so schlank wie das Razer Blade 16, was massiv gelobt wurde für seine endlich nicht mehr ultraflache Bauweise, und es wäre noch gut (statt ultra) transportabel, aber könnte eine bessere Kühlung integrieren (die einzelne Heatpipe und die zwei mickrig kleinen Lüfter sind niedlich und zeigen, wie viel Luft nach oben ist!). Dann könnte die Graka statt 60Watt bei gleicher Lautstärke 90-100Watt ziehen.

Das gleiche mit der CPU. 55Watt sind immerhin mehr als der Spielzeugverbrauch des M2 Max mit 36Watt. Aber auch hier könnte man mit einer guten Kühlung 70Watt herausholen, ohne dass die Lautstärke steigt. Windowsnotebooks erreichen sogar 100 Watt oder mehr, aber werden dann sehr laut.

Kurzum: Tolles Produkt von Apple, beeindruckende Effizienz, aber wieder einmal darf der M3 Max sein Potential nicht entfalten, weil das schnellste Applenotebook viel zu dünn und viel zu leicht gebaut ist.

[NikoB]

In fact, Apple is doing a smart thing by limiting consumption. It is not her fault, as a laptop manufacturer, that modern technological processes are almost at a dead end, and the performance growth curve per 1W has already become almost flat compared to what it was 15-20-30-40 years ago.

Intel/NVidia (and AMD are forced to, because they are playing on Intel's field) are cheaters - because... they have nothing to sell to the buyer year after year with little growth in performance, so they, especially the lagging Intel, are engaged in increasing consumption, because This is the only way they can significantly increase performance.

AMD sacrificed the built-in igpu to make the 7945HX, and did not make it on the most modern technical process (this surprised me compared to the Zen4 Phoenix), which made a radical leap in performance (almost x2.5) compared to the 6900HX, consuming almost as many. But this is not a balanced SoC, which has an extremely weak video integration.

Apple is trying to make a balanced solution, but even it was forced to backtrack in 2023 and worsen some characteristics, realizing. that TSMC's new process is not good enough to do everything as originally intended. Alas, there is no competition - there is TSMC(+ASML) and no one else on the planet. At least for now.

Laptops with a consumption of more than 80W are generally a crazy decision a priori. 100W as a last resort.

Real progress is when performance of chips increases rapidly (no less than x1.5 for every 2 years), but consumption remains the same as before, or even better, falls.

But over the last 5 years we have observed the opposite, absurd picture, when the consumption of "gaming" laptops and some mobile workstations was increased to a monstrous 250-350W. This shouldn't happen. Such enclosures are not designed to dissipate such a thermal load. And this is a necessary measure, because technical progress in IT as a whole is at a fundamental impasse with silicon. But other options did not go beyond the walls of laboratories.

[Plum]

@NikoB

Just wondering: if you know all this, why don't you open up your own company, hire the smartest talent and build a real alternative including your own plants?

If someone is able to show all of them how it should be done, then it's you!

[Neenyah]

@NikoB

Just wondering: if you know all this, why don't you open up your own company, hire the smartest talent and build a real alternative including your own plants?

If someone is able to show all of them how it should be done, then it's you!

The whole world is corrupted against him. Evil corporations and so on. He said it a couple of times already. Not just that he is #1 expert in every existing field known to humans, but he is also a very rich investor and trader with stocks (said that too, himself) so I'm not sure where is the obstacle because a lot of capital to invest is clearly there.

[NikoB]

Just wondering: if you know all this, why don't you open up your own company, hire the smartest talent and build a real alternative including your own plants?

What kind of stupid nonsense are you talking about here? I'm not the only one, but many analysts are literally writing the same thing. But it is one thing to understand what is happening, unlike the majority of the population, and quite another to make progress. If all the IT forces can't do it, why should I? Why not you?

You are just stupidly and stupidly trolling the topic. Everything I wrote is true. Apple, like the rest, is gradually reaching a dead end, because... TSMC is gradually reaching a dead end, and ASML is behind it.

Anyone who reads their reports and analytics knows all this. For naive ordinary people - "NikoB knows everything." Not everything, but I understand this quite accurately. And by the way, I predicted the rise of AMD back in 2015 on specialized forums and that they would change places.

TSMC has warned more than once that each new technical process will provide less and less benefits and will be more and more expensive. But there is no other way and no other industry yet. Quantum computers (more like experimental laboratory installations) are still a thing in themselves and certainly not suitable for sale to the general public. Basically, all the interest there is concentrated, in reality, in hacking the enemy's cryptographic protection, i.e. purely military purposes.

And fairy tales about "AI" for stupid ordinary people pursue obvious goals.
All experts are well aware that until the advent of real AI, it's like walking to the Moon with your feet.
So, in terms of IT, humanity is clearly facing stagnation for many decades. There will definitely not be a fundamental, order-of-magnitude leap in performance in the coming decades, accessible to the average person.

[Plum]

@NikoB:

Well, if there's no better tech available yet and the progress is not there yet, then the current companies seem to do the best they can, which contradicts your constant rants about how stupid they are ;)

[RobertJasiek]

The lithography companies are doing fine but the computer manufacturers are not.

[Plum]

@RobertJasiek

Yet he is constantly ranting under each and every laptop review what a rubbish job the manufacturer did because they didn't include a numpad and other stupid reasons.

[RobertJasiek]

Necessary as the manufacturers continue to fail, sometimes by bad hardware, sometimes by stupid ergonomy. This year, I considered every notebook but each was a failure so I built a DIY desktop. The closest manufacturer just failed on the keyboard, trying to save the proverbial pennies of production costs and therefore failing to sell me the notebook with its wobbly keys I could not stand for more than a few seconds. (And since this is an Apple thread, a MBP would have failed already due to its tiny arrow keys, not to mention the n----.)

[Bill Hates]

mit 2.1 kilo ist es doch schon recht schwer. wenn man bedenkt, dass Thinkpads heute 1.8 haben, dafür aber Ehternet, USB-A, alles dran.
Thinkpads können aber ab und an Geräusche machen. Da muss man vorsichtig sein bei Kauf.
am besten die 7840u nehmen.

[Plum]

@RobertJasiek

If we are staying at the Apple example, I think it would be quite a stretch to describe them as 'failing'.

Based on the amounts of laptops they ship every year, maybe the requirements that you have, are just too niche to be considered?

At the end of the day, they are selling mass products, so I believe they couldn't be bothered less about any 'disadvantages' that not even 0,00001% of their buyers care about.

And the same can be said about other manufacturers as well.

[RobertJasiek]

"Failing" for a use case like mine with an average of thousands of pressings on arrow keys per day.

These Apple notebooks carry Pro in their name, and by price and hardware selection (in comparison to base models) they are for prosumer use. A significant percentage of prosumers needs a) a rectangular display, b) ordinarily sized arrow keys, c) some numpad or possibly even an ordinarily sized numpad or d) ordinarily sized, dedicated page navigation keys. I do not know whether the significant percentage is 10% or 90%, but certainly not your fun number "not even 0.00001%". Prosumers in need of such aspects more often than not are not buyers of MBPs so the still caring actual buyers of MBPs is smaller than otherwise.

And no, not the same can be said about other manufacturers as well because 1) other manufacturers also offer models fitting such aspects and 2) desktops with undestroyed displays and preferred keyboards are possible.

If you compare the number of notebooks Apple sells to the numbers of notebooks by all other manufacturers combined and desktop / mini PC computers by all other manufacturers combined  including DIY and barebones, then a) the number of notebooks Apple sells is impressive and b) nevertheless it is very small compared to the rest. Therefore, Apple notebooks are a niche, but the same can be said about any particular manufacturer, or about the DIY market. Every niche is large enough to survive, and often counts in dozens (or hundreds?) of millions.

[Plum]

@RobertJasiek:

"A significant percentage of prosumers needs a) a rectangular display, b) ordinarily sized arrow keys, c) some numpad or possibly even an ordinarily sized numpad or d) ordinarily sized, dedicated page navigation keys."

Do you have any statistics to back these claims up? Otherwise it's just anecdotal. My personal experience is the opposite and none of the developers, business people and content creators I know, cares a lot about that.

And obviously adding a numpad will either increase the size of the laptop or decrease the size of the speakers or make another compromise.

Why would Apple or any other manufacturer for that matter not decide in the way that helps them appeal to the most people and therefore sell the most products possible based on their own market research?

I personally would not want my laptop to be bigger or have worse speakers for a numpad which I'm hardly using and I'm using my laptop for both business and leisure.

"And no, not the same can be said about other manufacturers as well because 1) other manufacturers also offer models fitting such aspects"

In that case people like NikoB will find another reason why that product is pure garbage as literally every single laptop that has been reviewed here.

"2) desktops with undestroyed displays and preferred keyboards are possible."

If a desktop is a possible alternative, then maybe you don't need a laptop in the first place. Also, nothing prevents you from connecting an external keyboard or display to a laptop.

"Therefore, Apple notebooks are a niche"

Interesting thought process, but definitely not the usual definition of the word 'niche' ;)

[Halbkaraoke]

mit 2.1 kilo ist es doch schon recht schwer. wenn man bedenkt, dass Thinkpads heute 1.8 haben

1,8 ist zu leicht, wenn man bedenkt, daß Apple mit 2,1 auf gute Leistung kommt. Mit 1,8 hätten sie auch drosseln müssen und bei dem Rest nachgeben.

[Aiman]

mit 2.1 kilo ist es doch schon recht schwer. wenn man bedenkt, dass Thinkpads heute 1.8 haben, dafür aber Ehternet, USB-A, alles dran.
Thinkpads können aber ab und an Geräusche machen. Da muss man vorsichtig sein bei Kauf.
am besten die 7840u nehmen.

Wie bitte? 2,1kg sind schwer?? O_o

Dein Vergleich hinkt aber gewaltig! Du vergleichst ein ultraslim Thinkpad mit U Stromsparprozessor mit dem stärksten Notebook von Apple. Das Thinkpad P16 Gen 2 ist 2,6 cm hoch und wiegt 3 kg! Das ist die perfekte Mischung aus guter Kühlung, aber noch portabel (nicht alle brauchen ultra mobil).

Bei Apple musst du sogar beim Spitzenmodell ein ultra leicht und ultra slim Gerät nehmen, auch wenn du nix ultra mobiles brauchst, was wie ein Vorposter gesagt hat, Leistung verschenkt, weil die Kühlung viel schlechter ist. Da sind viele Windows books klar im Vorteil.

Das Dilemma ist: Bei Apple hast du super Leistung pro Watt, aber eine schlechte Kühlung. Bei Windows hast du schlechtere Leistung pro Watt (bei Nvidia), aber eine bessere Kühlung. Apple mit guter Kühlung wäre das beste aus beiden Welten.