Windows 7 support ended for good, Windows 8.1 is next

[Redaktion]

Microsoft has confirmed the ultimate end of Windows 7 support by finally pulling the last vestige of updates available to the OS. The Redmond giant has also now announced that its 8.1 successor is also now at the end of its life, although it will not be extended the same prolonged security-update palliative care of the preceding version.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Windows-7-support-ended-for-good-Windows-8-1-is-next.681266.0.html

[Hunter2020]

Dead... LOL.   This year alone I hoarded 4 more brand new Ivy Bridge mini-ITX PCs bought from Aliexpress.  In case anyone forgotten, Ivy Bridge (3rd Gen Intel Core CPU) was the very last gen to have drivers for Windows XP.  In short an Ivy Bridge machine can run Windows XP, 7, and 8 reasonably smooth!

The only OSes that I allow to connect to the internet are just those.  Microsoft made a very grave move with Windows 10 and onward spying on the user, etc essentially turning Windows into one gigantic pile of spyware.  I do have one Windows 11 machine and that is a Huawei laptop.  On this laptop, I put Windows 11 permanently offline never allowed it to connect to the internet not even for 1 second since I got the laptop.

So, no Windows 7 cannot be DEAD.  It's one of the few MS OSes I personally approve to go online...

[Codrut Nistor]

So, Hunter2020, why not go with a Linux flavor of your choice? Windows 7 should be dead. Let Microsoft do their thing with Windows 10/11/12/12bis and take a leap of faith with Linux. You have to find a distro to your liking, especially since - based on what you said, please correct me if I'm wrong - you are not using those machines that you mentioned for gaming or any extreme computing tasks.

[vertigo]

The main problem I see with this is government and enterprises, which are typically slow to move to new OSes. Normally, it would make perfect sense for them to skip 10 if they're still on 7/8 or older and jump straight to 11, given 10's pending demise in a few years. But since MS insists on specific hardware requirements for it, many of the computers in these sectors won't be compatible, leaving these organizations with three options, none of which are very good: continue running an older, now completely discontinued OS; go through the headache of updating to 10 only to have to do another update in a couple years; or spend a significant amount of money, which is likely not within the budget, to upgrade hardware in order to be compatible with 11. MS forcing their hand like this is likely going to be very problematic, and I suspect there's going to be a lot of pushback.

I wonder if they'll end up repeating what they did with XP and decide to keep supporting it beyond the initial EOL date, or if they're going to just tell all these organizations to suck it up. Hopefully it will encourage at least a few percent of the market to finally give up on MS and move over to Linux. Frankly, based on all the spying 10/11 do, I'm surprised they can even be used in some corporate/government/military scenarios. Maybe if/when DARPA finishes their OS, that will replace MS for all gov/mil use.

[RobertJasiek]

You might also minimise spying by configuring Windows properly, as I do:

home.snafu.de/jasiek/Windows10Telemetry.html

[vertigo]

You might also minimise spying by configuring Windows properly, as I do:

home.snafu.de/jasiek/Windows10Telemetry.html

Problem is, it's been shown that even disabling stuff doesn't necessarily stop everything, and they're also constantly changing things, so you can have it disabled only to either have it reenabled by a later update or have them add additional stuff later. It comes down to the fact it's closed-source code that can't be audited by a company with a long history of being anti-privacy. Not to mention jumping through hoops, regardless of how effective, should not even be necessary just to be able to use a product the user paid for without having it spy on them. And most people don't have the knowledge and/or time to do so.

BTW, that reference you linked that you follow to configure Windows is almost two years old, and I'd be surprised if it's adequate to do the job anymore. I'd urge you to look at more recent sources.

[Invasiveness]

I really don't like how invasive win 11 is. The last time I tried it, it'd not let me finish the install without making / creating an online Microsoft account / email address. No other previous windows version I remember having to do this. On win 10, could just create a local account, which just asks for a username (no email address required).

[RobertJasiek]

Problem is, it's been shown that even disabling stuff doesn't necessarily stop everything,

Right. The least state is Basic while Off is not offered except for some server or enterprise versions of Windows. However, I have watched actual network traffic with TcpView: since having applied all the settings, unwanted network traffic by Windows is very sparse. Hardly any time there is any at all, except for checks whether new Windows updates are available. I guess Wireshark experts would still log something though. The last occasional, obvious other traffic sometimes occurred shortly after starting Windows before having also set the mentioned firewall rules.

and they're also constantly changing things, so you can have it disabled only to either have it reenabled by a later update

That's why I have mentioned this on my webpage:) After every major Windows update, one must check whether the settings are untouched and correct those modified without user consent. I have done so every time. During early major Windows 10 updates, some important changes were made. During the latest major Windows 10 updates, only a very few minor changes were made; essentially only some of those few in the Task Manager, which are less important.

the fact it's closed-source code that can't be audited by a company with a long history of being anti-privacy.

Sure, if you want to be sure, use Linux (but not Ubuntu).

Not to mention jumping through hoops, regardless of how effective, should not even be necessary just to be able to use a product the user paid for without having it spy on them.

I am still waiting for somebody bringing Microsoft to the EU court for Windows's violation of the principles of opt-in and minimal necessary privacy violations according to GDPR.

BTW, that reference you linked that you follow to configure Windows is almost two years old, and I'd be surprised if it's adequate to do the job anymore.

I have kept this my webpage up to date. As you can see, W10 1909 differed. Afterwards, major W10 updates have been so "modest" that the same settings still apply and checking them after each major update will do. (You might check the few relevant keys in the taskmanager more regularly though.)

[RobertJasiek]

The last time I tried it, it'd not let me finish the install without making / creating an online Microsoft account / email address.

I have read that it is still possible but well hidden. Before installtion, disconnect your network cables. During installation, choose some other option hidden by the least obvious link. I think there is also a more sophisticated way. The following I stored for the time I might need but I have not tried it myself:


W11 installation only with local account


Method 1


- disconnect ethernet cable
- When asked for MS account, SHIFT + F10.
- taskmgr
- Network Connection Flow, right-click
- End Process


Method 2


- Enter fake / random MS account credentials, where email must be formatted like an email address.
- repeat until W11 offers Local Account.



Method 3


If you do the setup with ethernet plugged in until the "Let's add your Microsoft account", unplug ethernet, and hit the back arrow on the add account screen, it then prompts you to create a local account.


Method 4

when I fresh installed Windows 11 on a new laptop was that it completely skipped the MS account login screen when it didn't recognize any network drivers installed.


Method 5

Windows 11 Pro has another workaround for this - when you're going through the setup choose the "domain join" option and it will immediately let you create a local account.

[Sntd]

When asked for the MS account to continue with installation: Shift + F10 ---> oobe/bypassnro. The setup process will restart and will give you an option to go with local account.

[NikoB]

So, Hunter2020, why not go with a Linux flavor of your choice?

This system is even more full of holes. And the complexity is an order of magnitude higher. And it is incompatible with the banal business software that hundreds of millions of people need every day.

Therefore, all versions of Linux still occupy less than 3% of the market, as they did 20 years ago.

Nobody bears any responsibility for holes and problems, as well as their solutions in the case of Linux.

And code auditing is only possible for less than 0.00001% of the world's population. And even that is a very optimistic estimate.
So having sources (which is also a lie since most fast drivers with the latest features come in proprietary binaries or libraries) is completely meaningless from the point of view of 99.99999% of the population

This is enough to never choose Linux as the main business system and then through the financial transactions necessary for 99.999999% of the population. Yes, those who use Linux, denying the fact of using Windows, secretly still use it as the main OS for business and financial transactions, perfectly understanding the risks in Linux with its bunch of unclosed holes and which no one cares about for 20-25 years, because that all Linux code is done on the knee, for the sake of vanity or trying to improve your resume.

Responsible people among Linux developers are less than 1-2%. As always in any business.

[Abc]

But it works fast on hard drives. No antivirus and other stuff.

[Hunter2020]

So, I'm the guy below that hoarded 4 more brand spanking new Ivy Bridge mini-PCs from Aliexpress just to run Windows 7 indefinitely into the near future...

Linux sucks.  On My Huawei laptop with Win 11 license, I put Win 11 perm offline and use Deepin Linux to go online.  The fast CPU + SSD just masks how slow Linux is.

When u use Linux with outdated CPU and slow spinning hard drives, it becomes cumbersome to use.

I'm basically hanging onto Windows via version 7 until the industry matures enough and many players making OpenHarmony compatible systems then I will kick Microsoft to the curbside for good.  Linux doesn't cut it as a competitor to Windows because of performance and ease of use.

In fact, maker of Deepin Linux should just play it smart and port the Deepin DDE to OpenHarmony, but they are not smart enough to go that route yet...

[vertigo]

I am still waiting for somebody bringing Microsoft to the EU court for Windows's violation of the principles of opt-in and minimal necessary privacy violations according to GDPR.

I have kept this my webpage up to date. As you can see, W10 1909 differed. Afterwards, major W10 updates have been so "modest" that the same settings still apply and checking them after each major update will do. (You might check the few relevant keys in the taskmanager more regularly though.)

I've been waiting years for things like this and antitrust suits against MS, Google, etc. The sad fact is, the organizations that are supposed to protect the consumer actually only protect their own wallets. MS is doing things just as bad, if not worse, than they did with IE 25 years ago, yet all we hear are crickets.

Didn't even realize that was your site. If it is up-to-date, it doesn't appear so. The header says "2021-04-19 newest contents, 2021-04-19 last update" and it says "The settings apply in particular to Windows 10 Pro 64b 20H2 or later" which, granted that "later" can cover anything, the fact it doesn't state through what version and 20H2 was a little while ago, it just makes it seem like it's outdated. So you may want to make some clarifications so people realize it's current.

So, Hunter2020, why not go with a Linux flavor of your choice?

This system is even more full of holes. And the complexity is an order of magnitude higher. And it is incompatible with the banal business software that hundreds of millions of people need every day.

Therefore, all versions of Linux still occupy less than 3% of the market, as they did 20 years ago.

Nobody bears any responsibility for holes and problems, as well as their solutions in the case of Linux.

And code auditing is only possible for less than 0.00001% of the world's population. And even that is a very optimistic estimate.
So having sources (which is also a lie since most fast drivers with the latest features come in proprietary binaries or libraries) is completely meaningless from the point of view of 99.99999% of the population

This is enough to never choose Linux as the main business system and then through the financial transactions necessary for 99.999999% of the population. Yes, those who use Linux, denying the fact of using Windows, secretly still use it as the main OS for business and financial transactions, perfectly understanding the risks in Linux with its bunch of unclosed holes and which no one cares about for 20-25 years, because that all Linux code is done on the knee, for the sake of vanity or trying to improve your resume.

Responsible people among Linux developers are less than 1-2%. As always in any business.

Windows is full of holes, too. Only they don't even care and often don't even fix them when they're pointed out to them. Linux definitely has its issues, and I'm not using it for a reason, and it's not as secure as many people like to claim (e.g. there certainly are viruses that affect it), but I certainly wouldn't say it's less secure than Windows. And software compatibility is growing slowly but steadily. My hope is that by the time W10 is EOL it will have improved enough to finally be usable for me. After all, it's improved a good bit over the past several years.

So, I'm the guy below that hoarded 4 more brand spanking new Ivy Bridge mini-PCs from Aliexpress just to run Windows 7 indefinitely into the near future...

Linux sucks.  On My Huawei laptop with Win 11 license, I put Win 11 perm offline and use Deepin Linux to go online.  The fast CPU + SSD just masks how slow Linux is.

When u use Linux with outdated CPU and slow spinning hard drives, it becomes cumbersome to use.

I'm basically hanging onto Windows via version 7 until the industry matures enough and many players making OpenHarmony compatible systems then I will kick Microsoft to the curbside for good.  Linux doesn't cut it as a competitor to Windows because of performance and ease of use.

In fact, maker of Deepin Linux should just play it smart and port the Deepin DDE to OpenHarmony, but they are not smart enough to go that route yet...

I've used numerous distros of Linux in VMs and on bare metal on multiple PCs over the past 20 or so years, and of all the problems I've had with it, performance is definitely not one of them. There's a reason it's recommended for use on older hardware that's too slow to run Windows. I put it on my mom's older computer, which was extremely slow with Windows, and Linux ran much faster.

[NikoB]

...

I have been waiting 25 years for the same, when some version of Linux will at least approximately become similar to Windows in terms of ease of use, compatibility with hardware and compatibility in UI and Windows hotkeys. But 25 years have passed and Linux is still there.

To even install a banal Skype, I needed to find the right commands for the command line under the same Ubuntu. Does the consumer really need all this? And this is the simplest example. Then it will be 10 and 100 times more difficult.

Let's move on - by default, no matter how the Linux sectarians assured, security in various popular distributions is set up disgustingly. In the same ubunt - by default, all software can easily climb into the network! This is madness. Of course, in Windows, by default, the moronic firewall does the same thing, but at least the whole setting there comes down to setting one checkmark in WF to completely block anything from accessing the Internet and local network without explicitly configured rules. How to get data from the Internet.

Try, knowing nothing about Linux - do the same. And then it's easy to set up access rules to only what is allowed? It's pure Hell, even for a professional Windows developer.

Therefore, there are practically no people on the planet who want to sit under Linux, except for those for whom this is a working environment and they are paid for it, for all its conditional free. It is of interest only to beginner students and IT workers, to improve their status in the resume, in order to finally find a better paying job.

Until it is by default as light as possible for hardware, as safe as possible - "everything that is not allowed is prohibited from the point of view of network access" and until it has at least at the initial stage 100% compatibility with the usual UI/hotkeys and business -logic of Windows, still only a small number of people on the planet will, after the first try of several distributions, go back to paid or pirated Windows.

And by the way, as it was rightly noted above, almost all popular Linux distributions have long become so bulky and memory-hungry that they refuse to work normally on 4GB. Even Ubuntu 18 LTS already crashes when trying to start it from a flash drive in Read Only mode on 4GB laptops. Where even W10 works quietly. Well, who needs this at all?

And what's more, Linux still doesn't support NTFS/exFAT/FAT32/ReFS natively, and it's almost fatal in the world dominated by Windows...