Polish source claims Nvidia and Intel worked together to block the marketing of premium AMD Ryzen 4000 laptops with high-end GPUs in 2020

[_MT_]

While I think it would surprise exactly no-one that a heavy player might pull his weight and attempt to crush his smaller opponent, I think there is an elephant in the room called availability. There were relatively few laptops released with mobile Ryzen, yet they all seemed to suffer from pretty terrible availability. To a point where announced versions never arrived or severe cutting down of configurations shortly after they started selling. Which begs a question, exactly how many chips is AMD able to provide. It seems laptops have the lowest priority for AMD (well, desktop APUs seem to be even lower, but consoles, servers and enthusiast desktops seem all higher). In this situation, I can imagine that OEMs might be cautious. Especially since AMD has burned them before.

[_MT_]

So, can you imagine everybody making their best laptops with processors from AMD? How many would actually make it to customers? Or would we just salivate reading press release after press release but never see one? I'm quite tired of interesting products being announced and then there still being no sign of them half a year or year later.

[Pfft]

Which begs a question, exactly how many chips is AMD able to provide. [...] In this situation, I can imagine that OEMs might be cautious. Especially since AMD has burned them before.

Bingo.
Still, saying that AMD are a victim to internalized-racist-cabal-of-the-1%-ters sounds waaaay cooler, doesn't it? ;) Fight the good fight, buy red!

[Godrilla]

I have been claiming this for the past year already finally some light on the story.

[Russel]

And the Ryzen-related CONSPIRACY THEORIES just keep on giving.
"Intel-only contracts", "artificially lowered TDPs", "forced throttling", and now, a brand-new entry for 2021 - let's call this one the "bandwidth paradox". Lovely.
Stay crazy, people.

Intel has done that before. So it's not surprising to be blamed like that.
AMD not getting the best treatment is partly due to leaving all the work to OEMs rather than working closely (or rather monitoring and instructing) with them like intel. But amd has the better chips that runs cooler, consume lesser power and are more secure since Renoir. So the OEMs could have at least offered a 2080 based laptop each from their end.
They could offer higher quality screens or beefier batteries? These weren't done even after the chips proved their worth.
Renoir supports lpddr4X 4266. But you see laptops with ddr4 2333 RAM soldered (I think Huawei had that, not sure). Do you see an XPS laptop with Renoir? What about Dragonfly or Gram?
If they were designed by collaboration with intel, then there's nothing that can be done. Otherwise it's normal to suspect intel of what they have done in the past. They only have themselves to blame for that. Same goes to amd being treated as a budget option. It's hard to get over the vanity issues.

[kek]

And the Ryzen-related CONSPIRACY THEORIES just keep on giving.
"Intel-only contracts", "artificially lowered TDPs", "forced throttling", and now, a brand-new entry for 2021 - let's call this one the "bandwidth paradox". Lovely.
Stay crazy, people.

Intel has done that before. So it's not surprising to be blamed like that.
AMD not getting the best treatment is partly due to leaving all the work to OEMs rather than working closely (or rather monitoring and instructing) with them like intel. But amd has the better chips that runs cooler, consume lesser power and are more secure since Renoir. So the OEMs could have at least offered a 2080 based laptop each from their end.
They could offer higher quality screens or beefier batteries? These weren't done even after the chips proved their worth.
Renoir supports lpddr4X 4266. But you see laptops with ddr4 2333 RAM soldered (I think Huawei had that, not sure). Do you see an XPS laptop with Renoir? What about Dragonfly or Gram?
If they were designed by collaboration with intel, then there's nothing that can be done. Otherwise it's normal to suspect intel of what they have done in the past. They only have themselves to blame for that. Same goes to amd being treated as a budget option. It's hard to get over the vanity issues.

The last time Intel pulled a trick on AMD was like 15 years ago. You guys better get over it, since Intel doesnt have time to be risking themselves another sue and losing money.

Having better chips means nothing to OEMs, especially on laptops, where Intel is practically helping them design and test their stuff. XPS, Dragonfly, Spectre and all those laptops with Evo branding are the results of close collaboration with Intel, and as such, no AMD versions there. Also, who knows how many chips AMD is giving to laptop OEMs, since all Renoir models need like 3 months to get build. That's time and for OEMs, that's a risk of a customer cancelling their order.

It's really funny that Comet Lake & Tiger Lake got released, Tiger Lake H is coming soon, and Renoir is still nowhere to be found in decent quantities, after a year of being announced lol.

[Jason83]

Well it's better for Intel to put all of the OEM's under pressure to max out AMD's chips with an RTX 2060, instead of loosing market share and a lot of revenue for not selling their chips in high end laptops. I don't think Nvidia cares in which Laptops their chips become installed as long as they can sell their chips. A further investigation would be interesting to clarify the whole laptop situation in 2020 and whatever bottlenecks they are planning for 2021 to make AMD look weaker then the competition.

[Jason83]

Well it's better for Intel to put all of the OEM's under pressure to max out AMD's chips with an RTX 2060, instead of loosing market share and a lot of revenue for not selling their chips in high end laptops. I don't think Nvidia cares in which Laptops their chips become installed as long as they can sell their chips. A further investigation would be interesting to clarify the whole laptop situation in 2020 and whatever bottlenecks they are planning for 2021 to make AMD look weaker then the competition.

[Russel]

And the Ryzen-related CONSPIRACY THEORIES just keep on giving.
"Intel-only contracts", "artificially lowered TDPs", "forced throttling", and now, a brand-new entry for 2021 - let's call this one the "bandwidth paradox". Lovely.
Stay crazy, people.

Intel has done that before. So it's not surprising to be blamed like that.
AMD not getting the best treatment is partly due to leaving all the work to OEMs rather than working closely (or rather monitoring and instructing) with them like intel. But amd has the better chips that runs cooler, consume lesser power and are more secure since Renoir. So the OEMs could have at least offered a 2080 based laptop each from their end.
They could offer higher quality screens or beefier batteries? These weren't done even after the chips proved their worth.
Renoir supports lpddr4X 4266. But you see laptops with ddr4 2333 RAM soldered (I think Huawei had that, not sure). Do you see an XPS laptop with Renoir? What about Dragonfly or Gram?
If they were designed by collaboration with intel, then there's nothing that can be done. Otherwise it's normal to suspect intel of what they have done in the past. They only have themselves to blame for that. Same goes to amd being treated as a budget option. It's hard to get over the vanity issues.

The last time Intel pulled a trick on AMD was like 15 years ago. You guys better get over it, since Intel doesnt have time to be risking themselves another sue and losing money.

Having better chips means nothing to OEMs, especially on laptops, where Intel is practically helping them design and test their stuff. XPS, Dragonfly, Spectre and all those laptops with Evo branding are the results of close collaboration with Intel, and as such, no AMD versions there. Also, who knows how many chips AMD is giving to laptop OEMs, since all Renoir models need like 3 months to get build. That's time and for OEMs, that's a risk of a customer cancelling their order.

It's really funny that Comet Lake & Tiger Lake got released, Tiger Lake H is coming soon, and Renoir is still nowhere to be found in decent quantities, after a year of being announced lol.

XPS, Dragonfly, Gram etc etc has evo branding which is rather new compared to the XPS line at least. Dell XPS has been around since Core 2 duo at least (I had one).
And the so called ultrabooks have all been basically macbook air clones before the 2-in-1 thing became popular.
While it maybe true that intel worked closely with OEMs, there's no real reason to not go for a superior chip.

And you can't expect not to suspect a previous offender of doing the same thing again, especially knowing how intel sold you chips with security vulnerabilities knowing full well that they had them, while marketing themselves as the one's with the superior security.
Had amd been stuck with bulldozer, then we'd still be letting intel sell us $500 quad-core chips. The same would've been true had zen ended up being slightly less competitive.
Intel is one of the worst when it comes to generational improvement of performance. AMD was s*** when bulldozer was around, so intel just didn't need to be innovative and they milked the customers. Anyone with a brain who bought kabylake i7 quadcore desktop processor or a laptop with i7 7xxxu dual core would've felt like s*** when they realized that intel was very much capable of providing you twice the number of cores @ 15w, but they just didn't.
Intel stalled technological innovation just because there was no competition.
Nvidia didn't do that even though amd has no real answer for dlss or ray tracing yet. They improved their dlss and rt performance.

You can't just trust a company like that. It's illogical to trust any company. But it's brainless to trust a previous offender.

[deksman2]

yeah, I'm not buying this one. Sorry, but it is what it is and even Renoir-U has shortages and what not. It seems everytime something goes wrong with AMD, it's anyones fault except them.

AMD has a fkin GPU division. Why the hell they didnt come up with their own combo offering then?

Except for the fact that AMD cpu's and GPU's are produced using TSMC (which has been in excessive demand - hence the shortages).

As for AMD offering their mobile GPU's.... they DID... the 5600 and 5700 mobile were released and only DELL integrated Ryzrn 4800H and RX 5600 into one of their designs.
Most other OEM's didn't bother with AMD gpu's (despite the fact they offered same or better efficiency and performance than Nvidia GPU's such as 2060 and 2070).

OEM's are the ones who decide which hw they will integrate into their machines.
It is also OEM's responsibility to create decent machines with quality screens and cooling... and if you noticed, most AMD laptops come with somewhat inferior screens.

[_MT_]

It might also be worth repeating that the same author, Bogdan Solca, wrote in the summer of 2020 this:

"What we are hearing from OEMs that already offer laptops with Ryzen 4000 APUs is that AMD is essentially limiting the dGPU options to keep final system costs around US$1,000."

[_MT_]

So, it might have been AMD who chose to target the high value, lower-end segment. And directly or indirectly, it might have been AMD who chose to have things like cheap screens because they wanted the lower price points. While it might not fit my preferences, I can understand it as a strategy. And of course, such decisions might signal how much confidence OEMs have in the product. It's clear that enthusiasts like Ryzen. What the wider audience thinks is less clear.

[Mate]

@_MT_

Yeah, AMD literally forced manufacturers to use FHD screens - Renoir was not able to handle more than 1440p with eDP connection. OLED were also out of question as before Renoir those were designed to work only with Intel iGPU(different signal coding than on nVidia/AMD GPUs)

However now its different story - AMD already estabilished themselves as better alternative , and we see it with increased prices on Ryzen 5000 for desktops. Cezanne laptops also will be probably more expensive than Renoir.

[kek]

And the Ryzen-related CONSPIRACY THEORIES just keep on giving.
"Intel-only contracts", "artificially lowered TDPs", "forced throttling", and now, a brand-new entry for 2021 - let's call this one the "bandwidth paradox". Lovely.
Stay crazy, people.

Intel has done that before. So it's not surprising to be blamed like that.
AMD not getting the best treatment is partly due to leaving all the work to OEMs rather than working closely (or rather monitoring and instructing) with them like intel. But amd has the better chips that runs cooler, consume lesser power and are more secure since Renoir. So the OEMs could have at least offered a 2080 based laptop each from their end.
They could offer higher quality screens or beefier batteries? These weren't done even after the chips proved their worth.
Renoir supports lpddr4X 4266. But you see laptops with ddr4 2333 RAM soldered (I think Huawei had that, not sure). Do you see an XPS laptop with Renoir? What about Dragonfly or Gram?
If they were designed by collaboration with intel, then there's nothing that can be done. Otherwise it's normal to suspect intel of what they have done in the past. They only have themselves to blame for that. Same goes to amd being treated as a budget option. It's hard to get over the vanity issues.

The last time Intel pulled a trick on AMD was like 15 years ago. You guys better get over it, since Intel doesnt have time to be risking themselves another sue and losing money.

Having better chips means nothing to OEMs, especially on laptops, where Intel is practically helping them design and test their stuff. XPS, Dragonfly, Spectre and all those laptops with Evo branding are the results of close collaboration with Intel, and as such, no AMD versions there. Also, who knows how many chips AMD is giving to laptop OEMs, since all Renoir models need like 3 months to get build. That's time and for OEMs, that's a risk of a customer cancelling their order.

It's really funny that Comet Lake & Tiger Lake got released, Tiger Lake H is coming soon, and Renoir is still nowhere to be found in decent quantities, after a year of being announced lol.

XPS, Dragonfly, Gram etc etc has evo branding which is rather new compared to the XPS line at least. Dell XPS has been around since Core 2 duo at least (I had one).
And the so called ultrabooks have all been basically macbook air clones before the 2-in-1 thing became popular.
While it maybe true that intel worked closely with OEMs, there's no real reason to not go for a superior chip.

And you can't expect not to suspect a previous offender of doing the same thing again, especially knowing how intel sold you chips with security vulnerabilities knowing full well that they had them, while marketing themselves as the one's with the superior security.
Had amd been stuck with bulldozer, then we'd still be letting intel sell us $500 quad-core chips. The same would've been true had zen ended up being slightly less competitive.
Intel is one of the worst when it comes to generational improvement of performance. AMD was s*** when bulldozer was around, so intel just didn't need to be innovative and they milked the customers. Anyone with a brain who bought kabylake i7 quadcore desktop processor or a laptop with i7 7xxxu dual core would've felt like s*** when they realized that intel was very much capable of providing you twice the number of cores @ 15w, but they just didn't.
Intel stalled technological innovation just because there was no competition.
Nvidia didn't do that even though amd has no real answer for dlss or ray tracing yet. They improved their dlss and rt performance.

You can't just trust a company like that. It's illogical to trust any company. But it's brainless to trust a previous offender.

XPS is now part of Evo. The new models have been part of that and the Ultrabook program (which was another Intel thing). So, no, no AMD versions on it. And yes, there's a reason to skip over AMD: costs. Like I said in my previous comment, waiting times are up to 3 months now, if you custom build a Lenovo/HP. No way in hell an OEM is risking themselves with more models with those waiting times.

And again, your "previous offender" did that 15 years ago. The CEO and everyone involved will probably never try that again. Also, Intel stalling themselves was because they fked up 10nm transition, not them purposefully stopping its release. Ice Lake got released until 2019.

[Russel]

And the Ryzen-related CONSPIRACY THEORIES just keep on giving.
"Intel-only contracts", "artificially lowered TDPs", "forced throttling", and now, a brand-new entry for 2021 - let's call this one the "bandwidth paradox". Lovely.
Stay crazy, people.

Intel has done that before. So it's not surprising to be blamed like that.
AMD not getting the best treatment is partly due to leaving all the work to OEMs rather than working closely (or rather monitoring and instructing) with them like intel. But amd has the better chips that runs cooler, consume lesser power and are more secure since Renoir. So the OEMs could have at least offered a 2080 based laptop each from their end.
They could offer higher quality screens or beefier batteries? These weren't done even after the chips proved their worth.
Renoir supports lpddr4X 4266. But you see laptops with ddr4 2333 RAM soldered (I think Huawei had that, not sure). Do you see an XPS laptop with Renoir? What about Dragonfly or Gram?
If they were designed by collaboration with intel, then there's nothing that can be done. Otherwise it's normal to suspect intel of what they have done in the past. They only have themselves to blame for that. Same goes to amd being treated as a budget option. It's hard to get over the vanity issues.

The last time Intel pulled a trick on AMD was like 15 years ago. You guys better get over it, since Intel doesnt have time to be risking themselves another sue and losing money.

Having better chips means nothing to OEMs, especially on laptops, where Intel is practically helping them design and test their stuff. XPS, Dragonfly, Spectre and all those laptops with Evo branding are the results of close collaboration with Intel, and as such, no AMD versions there. Also, who knows how many chips AMD is giving to laptop OEMs, since all Renoir models need like 3 months to get build. That's time and for OEMs, that's a risk of a customer cancelling their order.

It's really funny that Comet Lake & Tiger Lake got released, Tiger Lake H is coming soon, and Renoir is still nowhere to be found in decent quantities, after a year of being announced lol.

XPS, Dragonfly, Gram etc etc has evo branding which is rather new compared to the XPS line at least. Dell XPS has been around since Core 2 duo at least (I had one).
And the so called ultrabooks have all been basically macbook air clones before the 2-in-1 thing became popular.
While it maybe true that intel worked closely with OEMs, there's no real reason to not go for a superior chip.

And you can't expect not to suspect a previous offender of doing the same thing again, especially knowing how intel sold you chips with security vulnerabilities knowing full well that they had them, while marketing themselves as the one's with the superior security.
Had amd been stuck with bulldozer, then we'd still be letting intel sell us $500 quad-core chips. The same would've been true had zen ended up being slightly less competitive.
Intel is one of the worst when it comes to generational improvement of performance. AMD was s*** when bulldozer was around, so intel just didn't need to be innovative and they milked the customers. Anyone with a brain who bought kabylake i7 quadcore desktop processor or a laptop with i7 7xxxu dual core would've felt like s*** when they realized that intel was very much capable of providing you twice the number of cores @ 15w, but they just didn't.
Intel stalled technological innovation just because there was no competition.
Nvidia didn't do that even though amd has no real answer for dlss or ray tracing yet. They improved their dlss and rt performance.

You can't just trust a company like that. It's illogical to trust any company. But it's brainless to trust a previous offender.

XPS is now part of Evo. The new models have been part of that and the Ultrabook program (which was another Intel thing). So, no, no AMD versions on it. And yes, there's a reason to skip over AMD: costs. Like I said in my previous comment, waiting times are up to 3 months now, if you custom build a Lenovo/HP. No way in hell an OEM is risking themselves with more models with those waiting times.

And again, your "previous offender" did that 15 years ago. The CEO and everyone involved will probably never try that again. Also, Intel stalling themselves was because they fked up 10nm transition, not them purposefully stopping its release. Ice Lake got released until 2019.

Intel didn't stay at 4 cores in desktop mainstream and dual core in core u parts because of 10nm delay. It was most definitely due to lack of competition. This has been discussed by multiple techtubers.
You can check moore's law is dead's explanation. He has backed his videos with quite a lot of evidence. (Title:
How AMD Exploited Intel's Greed: Forcing Quadcore Obsolescence Early)

Also it's not just the node. There was never a great generational increase in performance since sandybridge. They stopped innovation because they had no competition. They didn't try to compete with their own previous gen to give us better products.
Nvidia compared their new RTX products to their previous gen and explained the performance advantage.
Intel used liquid nitrogen to overclock a xeon and gave us benchmarks of a product that was never to be released.
(Check tomshardware and see how intel fakes. Title:
Intel: We 'Forgot' to Mention 28-Core, 5-GHz CPU Demo Was Overclocked).

And like I said earlier, ultrabooks are not intel's invention.
They are merely macbook air clones that got a new patent and a shiny label.
Intel has been having trouble with their foundries and the 10nm chips still made it to many laptops in paper (though the laptops themselves are hard to find).
But amd renoir never made it into flagship grade laptops. That's why this suspicion was even a thing.
And once you're caught for some kind of malpractice, you'll always be under that label, 15 years, change of CEO etc etc doesn't matter. We had quite a few instances were intel's lack of integrity has surfaced in recent years. So they haven't been clean even after that. (Intel, AMD, NVIDIA, they are all here to do business, not charity. To trust any of them would be stupid, especially if you have a good enough reason to suspect them).
Besides, intel has Ryan Shrout inside now.
😂