The scourge of fully soldered and non-upgradeable laptops

[Redaktion]

When we buy something - especially something as expensive as a high-performance laptop or tablet - the expectation is that it's ours to do with as we please. Many manufacturers, however, prevent this by fixing commonly upgraded components like storage and RAM directly to the motherboard. What gives?

https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-scourge-of-fully-soldered-and-non-upgradeable-laptops.496091.0.html

[kek]

What all those Windows OEMs are ignoring is the fact that, even when soldered, their laptops are still as pricey as ever, and at one point, you are better off going full Apple instead, because at least there, if something fails, there are less hoops to jump through to get a replacement.

[opelit]

I think it's ok when we buy slim device. It's just impossible to put DDR4 slots. But when we buy gaming machine its just bad that there is soldered 8 GB or even worse 4 GB and one DDR4 slot.

Then when we know that it's all for space-saving .... we see empty slot for SATA drive... then I just go furious mode. For sure a laptop like that is removed from my list of laptops I could recommend or buy.

M.2 drives are cool, and it's super great that in most laptops we can change it. The same for WI-FI/BT.

I think that the RAM slots/form is just ... bad for laptops. I think if it had different form it should be for sure also used in slim devices.

[Joshua]

I will never buy a laptop with soldered Ram,Wifi adapter or storage and won't suggest to friends and family members.

And i don't mind if it's little 0.2mm thick...

[vertigo]

There are plenty of thin laptops with replaceable components. I'm sure it helps, and it might be impossible to get them super crazy thin, but I suspect most people would prefer, as @Joshua said, an extra quarter-mm thickness in exchange for upgradeability. Sure, there are some that want ultimate thinness and low-weight, but I find it hard to believe there's enough to justify the amount of laptops out there with this issue, as I suspect companies would make more money selling upgradeable laptops to those that want it than extremely thin-and-light ones to people that value that over all else. So I'm forced to believe that it is all about money, meaning they want you to have to pay for the upgrades when you buy the laptop, at a ridiculous up-charge, and they want you to have to replace it sooner (planned obsolescence). Of course, the first reason doesn't explain why so many laptops are limited to just 8 or 16GB RAM, but I'm convinced there's also a fair amount of ignorance and stupidity involved in these decisions.

As with @Joshua, I would never, ever buy a laptop where the storage can't be replaced/upgraded. RAM and Wi-Fi are less of an issue to me, so long as they come with a reasonable (in both quantity/version and upgrade cost) amount, but even so, all else being equal, I'll always go with a laptop that I can upgrade these parts, especially RAM, over one that I can't, even if it does mean a little extra girth and weight, which frankly could just be used for more battery, so even better.

[BSF7772]

removing ram upgradability is like when smartphones companies started to remove 3.5mm headphones jacks without any reason
they were saying removing them to make space for bigger battery, better speakers, better sound quality
however these things haven't improved since they removed 3.5mm

same thing with laptops
there are plenty of cheap and normal size option (15+ , normal thickness ) without the ability to upgrade the ram
the size and thickness is not excuse to remove ram upgradability
there are still small and thin option that still have 2 so-dimm slots of ram like HP 435

[vertigo]

Speaking of phones, and this is where I thought you were going, the move away from removable batteries was done largely in order to make phones thinner, and secondarily to make them more water-resistant. Yet the majority of phones today are similar in thickness to phones years ago that had removable batteries, and many still are really no more water resistant than they were then. Meanwhile, battery life has only gotten marginally better with a few exceptions, and while my phone does pretty well, I still miss being able to swap out the battery and be back to 100% in a couple minutes.

[fedo]

There is going to be a e-waste credit system like carbon credit really soon. All this e-waste from non-upgradeable and difficult to repair electronics really is destroying the planet. China has in recent years stopped accepting e-waste and many recycling companies are scrambling to find alternatives.

I have multiple GPUs with cracked BGA solder contacts that I can't be bothered to fix. It pains me that I'll have to throw them out and they'll end up in some poor folk's village, forever polluting their lives.

[vertigo]

I just thought of something else with this: when going through reviews comparing different notebooks, it would be incredibly helpful if the RAM situation was clearly stated in a standardized place, ideally at the top in the specs for the reviewed computer (e.g. "Memory: 16384 MB, dual-channel, 32768 MB max, soldered" or "Memory: 8192 MB, single-channel, 24576 MB max, soldered + unsoldered"). And a list/spreadsheet of computers and what components are upgradeable and what the max RAM is, or adding that as a search filter, would be especially great, allowing users to just eliminate any that don't meet their needs quickly, without having to dig through a bunch of reviews. Not to mention it would help discourage the companies from doing this, as doing so would mean their computers would simply be ignored by people.

As for what else would be nice to be able to upgrade or swap it out, there are a few things I think would be interesting, though obviously they would add to the cost and complexity. A swappable keyboard would be nice, as would a port module that could be swapped out to provide different combinations of ports (more USB-A or USB-C, HDMI/ethernet/etc or not), allowing the user to choose what they want and change it later, e.g. getting 2 USB-A and only one USB-C but later switching to 1 and 2. Even a replaceable webcam module to upgrade it with a newer, better one after a couple years. And of course external batteries. That's a feature I sorely miss from my old Dell laptop, where I could just have a spare battery or two and swap out as needed. Of course, that wouldn't fit in to the modern desire for ultimate thinness, and it would be trickier to do with a convertible, but it was nice. I always thought with laptops and phones where you could swap the battery they should have a small internal one to allow for swapping without powering down.

[Digitalguy]

We can always dream about the fully upgradable compact laptop it won't change things... The smart approach is not to avoid non upgradable laptops because then you might be left with simply worse ones. The smart approach is to choose a laptop that you won't need to upgrade, even if this means buying into the expensive tier where the OEM makes more profit. Personally I exclude any laptop that has not (or cannot be upgraded to) at least 16GB RAM. As for storage it has to have at least 512 in total and preferably more, but I am ok with a laptop that has 256 + microsd card, even if I prefer those that have either replacable SSD or a second slot. I have both the lightest 13.3in and lightest 15.6in laptops in the world (respectively 787gr and 999gr), they both have 16GB of soldered RAM. The 13.3in has a replacable 256 sata ssd + microsd (I put another 256) and the 15.6 has 512 NVME soldered plus another NVME slot (I put 1TB). They have both full USB A, full service USB C and full HDMI. They were purchased at $1000 each in 2017 and 2019 and are worth it IMO.  For me they are future proof enough (both i7, 7th and 8th gen) while having mostly soldered-on components. The problem is that people don't want to spend $1000 in a laptop, buy a cheap one with 8GB a RAM and then complain it's not upgradable....

[nrp]

Laptops can be made easier to upgrade and easier to repair than they are.  It just takes willingness from the OEMs followed by some relatively minor design tradeoffs.  Companies don't do it because they don't believe repairability and upgradeability drives purchase decisions for a large enough audience, and because it optimizes against their current revenue streams.  I believe there is a meaningful audience between people who value upgradeability, people who care about the environmental impact of their purchase decisions, people who want to save money, and those who just philosophically hate the idea of their devices being locked down.  I also believe it's possible to address these consumers in a way that can make for a successful company.  In fact, I plan to do it!

[A]

First of all, it isn't a conspiracy theory. We are getting closer and closer to a point where upgrading PCs make less and less sense. Outside of COVID impact, PC sales have been declining.

Manufacturers need to get people used to soldered components, glued batteries and the like so that you continue to buy hardware. Otherwise 10 years from now their sales would be virtually gone. Cause we are coming close to the limit of dieshrinks, only way forward is if light based computers work out.

Second of all, there is more to the issue of soldered components than simply enthusiasts. I mean what happens to your data on a soldered HD when the motherboard dies? It gets even worse for hospitals and many companies dealing with sensitive data that have policies to destroy the harddrive. So instead of re-purposing or selling it, they would have to trash the entire laptop!

And it also harms the 2nd hand market, as cost of reusing old hardware would go up. If 1 ram chip fails, most people can still sell a computer. If it is soldered and pc is dead, most won't bother to sell it and just junk it. Cost of buying 2nd hand parts will also increase as it requires more work to get components.

Personally, I don't need a swappable gpu or cpu in a laptop. What i'd like to see is more options for laptops. You know, more choices of screens, some choices in keyboard layouts, some choices in types of touchpads. Choices of what ports you'd like to have. That is where I'd like to see more customization.

[255BB]

In a thin and compact laptop, I'm ok with soldered RAM. But a storage should be upgradable since M.2 SSD is so small (compared to 2.5").

[themostunique]

Kudos to HP for bring dual slot upgradable ram to the sub 1kg Aero 645 G7

[_MT_]

Frankly, I don't really care about upgrading down the road. I rarely upgrade even desktops. Perhaps because I was never strapped for cash and as a result I tend to buy what I want and more than I need (I don't do the "upgrade little by little as you save up"). It lasts me comfortably for years and when the time comes for a replacement, all the major parts need to go. Looking back, I have reused cases, optical drives, sound cards, even power supplies, but motherboards, CPUs and GPUs always go. Of course, it didn't help that I do CPU heavy work and Intel doesn't do backward compatibility. About the only thing where I truly value upgradability and compatibility are testing rigs in our lab. And it doesn't always work out. Look at Threadripper. The new I/O die in 3000 series was a leap forward, but the processors weren't backward compatible. Tough luck. It's hard to decouple CPU from motherboard.

What bothers me is the "lock in." If, say, Dell fails to offer me good price on RAM or SSD, I can take the cheapest option and upgrade it myself using components bought at market prices. And I can "threaten" them with doing just that to push for a better deal. If it's soldered, that option doesn't exist. Look at what Apple or Microsoft are doing. They're just gouging people on RAM and SSDs. They're cheap as chips on the market, but you're screwed if you want one of their machines. It annoys me because I can afford it, I just don't like getting shafted. So, I have to deny myself to avoid supporting such habits. Voting with your wallet is the only thing that counts.

Also, there is the data recovery and management aspect. If there is a problem with a laptop, I can always remove an SSD before giving it to an external technician to protect access to our data. No matter how screwed up the laptop is. I can just pull it out.

I do have an Area 51m. I didn't buy it for modularity. I didn't expect to be able to upgrade the CPU. Nor was I expecting RTX 3000 series GPUs being available for it. I value the powerful components and cooling. I didn't plan on buying it but I was really surprised by the value. For similar money as m17, it offered performance of a different league. Yes, it's big and heavy. But I'm a man, not a tiny lady (no offense). And I remember times when business laptops were not much smaller or lighter (my first business laptop was almost as heavy and I believe it was actually thicker - and I carried it every day). It's a shame they don't have a Precision in this style. The battery life sucks but I bought it as a transportable workstation and the battery is more of a built in UPS. This isn't something I'm going to whip out at an airport (and neither is the m17).