Global electricity storage potential greater than electricity demand

[Redaktion]

Pumped storage power plants for storage instead of batteries or accumulators? These offer a number of advantages, including location flexibility, minimal harm to existing ecosystems and a way of conveniently storing electricity produced from wind or solar.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Global-electricity-storage-potential-greater-than-electricity-demand.956311.0.html

[toto1234]

Just build 20 new nuclear reactors, and stop this green renewable BS madness.

[indy]

And build them next to warzones and tsunamis.

[heffeque]

Just build 20 new nuclear reactors, and stop this green renewable BS madness.

Spain's electricity is much cheaper than France's, and it's thanks to renewable energy production (traditionally hydro, but continuous building of more wind and solar are making prices lower even further).

Nuclear reactors are just too expensive, they're slow to build, and complicated to maintain.

[Yo]

Spain's electricity is much cheaper than France's, and it's thanks to renewable energy production (traditionally hydro, but continuous building of more wind and solar are making prices lower even further).

Nuclear reactors are just too expensive, they're slow to build, and complicated to maintain.

EU electricity price must obey a stupid rule (for french consumers especially): the most expensive energy source needed to stabilize the grid set the price (at EU level), so french electricity price is set mostly by Gaz price (super clever system without Russian gaz). Spain and Portugal got a derogation to not obey that rule, search for "Iberian derogation", that's why u think what u think.

2024 net export of electricity:
France: 89 TWh
Spain: 2.8 Twh

EDF (French historical electricity company) is literally forced to sell 100TWh of electricity every year at a fixed price (42€/TWh) to competitors by EU because nuclear is too competitive (it's called ARENH)

[A]

Just build 20 new nuclear reactors, and stop this green renewable BS madness.

And what exactly would that do? A lot of the so called shortages is during peak times, and nuclear is terrible at peaking.

Your adding 20 nuclear plants idea would not only be expensive, it would just send power surges into the grid during offpeaks.

EU electricity price must obey a stupid rule (for french consumers especially): the most expensive energy source needed to stabilize the grid set the price (at EU level), so french electricity price is set mostly by Gaz price (super clever system without Russian gaz). Spain and Portugal got a derogation to not obey that rule, search for "Iberian derogation", that's why u think what u think.

2024 net export of electricity:
France: 89 TWh
Spain: 2.8 Twh

EDF (French historical electricity company) is literally forced to sell 100TWh of electricity every year at a fixed price (42€/TWh) to competitors by EU because nuclear is too competitive (it's called ARENH)

They are forced to sell into the grid because if they don't, they will end up destroying their grid through power surges. So they have to offload the power somewhere. It only works precisely because other countries don't have much nuclear.

Also, France highly subsidizes Nuclear and had to bail out the EDF

[heffeque]

Added to that:
France exports more electricity because it's connected to countries that are even more expensive than France.
Spain exports to France more than France exports to Spain, and it has been like that for over a decade, before the "Iberian derogation".

Added to that:
The "Iberian derogation" only took effect a few days during the following days after the NS2 destruction, when Europe had to start importing gas from US fracking (which was too expensive to sell to Europe before NS2's destruction). The "Iberian derogation" hasn't been used again since then because it hasn't been needed.

Added to that:
France could implement it too. If they aren't, it's their choice.

Added to that:
France blocks the construction of larger power-lines between Spain and the rest of Europe, so Spain can't sell more of the electricity to Europe (which actually is a good thing for Spain, as electricity prices would increase if they started being able to sell more to Europe: so France's greediness is actually helping Spanish citizens, helping power-intensive industries, and improving Spain's economy, which is improving at a higher rate than countries with higher energy costs).

[Yo]

Added to that:
France exports more electricity because it's connected to countries that are even more expensive than France.
Spain exports to France more than France exports to Spain, and it has been like that for over a decade, before the "Iberian derogation".

2024:
France imports from Spain = 6.6 TWh
Spain imports from France = 9.4 TWh

You are literally lying...

Added to that:
The "Iberian derogation" only took effect a few days during the following days after the NS2 destruction, when Europe had to start importing gas from US fracking (which was too expensive to sell to Europe before NS2's destruction). The "Iberian derogation" hasn't been used again since then because it hasn't been needed.

And an other lie, the Iberian derogation started early 2022 for 12 month and got extended until end of 2023... A few days... What a joke...

Added to that:
France could implement it too. If they aren't, it's their choice.

It's a DEROGATION given by EU commission WTF, I feel like feeding a troll

Added to that:
France blocks the construction of larger power-lines between Spain and the rest of Europe, so Spain can't sell more of the electricity to Europe (which actually is a good thing for Spain, as electricity prices would increase if they started being able to sell more to Europe: so France's greediness is actually helping Spanish citizens, helping power-intensive industries, and improving Spain's economy, which is improving at a higher rate than countries with higher energy costs).

False again...
Go check project "Golfe de gascogne/Golfo de bizkaia" started in 2018 to be delivered in 2028
And "Baixas - Santa Llogaia" delivered in 2015

[heffeque]

2024:
France imports from Spain = 6.6 TWh
Spain imports from France = 9.4 TWh

You are literally lying...

Actually, you are right.
During 2022 and 2023 Spain exported more (8.4 and 1.6 TWh respectively), but in 2024 France has exported more (2.8 TWh).
During 2025, with info updated up until yesterday, Spain exported more to France (0.64 TWh)

And an other lie, the Iberian derogation started early 2022 for 12 month and got extended until end of 2023... A few days... What a joke...

The law has been in place during that period, yes, but executing it only took place a few days during 2022 during extreme price spikes. The rest of the days the Iberian derogation was not executed because prices did not go high enough.

It's a DEROGATION given by EU commission WTF, I feel like feeding a troll

What's your point? Why didn't France request it too?

False again...
Go check project "Golfe de gascogne/Golfo de bizkaia" started in 2018 to be delivered in 2028
And "Baixas - Santa Llogaia" delivered in 2015

The original target of the Biskai link was for it to be completed and operational by 2023. For now the estimation is for 2028, but who knows if France will resist/slow down the project even further.

There are multiple of other examples during the early 2000s, and a couple of other recent ones like the MidCat pipeline and BarMar.

And just to add something else: France is "hiding" part of the cost of nuclear energy by state subsidizing EDF with bailouts, loans and debt guarantees. Also by putting price caps (42€/MWh as per the ARENH mechanism) to sell nuclear-generated electricity below the cost of production for newer reactors. Aaaand adding to that by externalizing/excluding costs (maintenance, updating and decommissioning costs, plus the fact that nuclear waste management costs are not transparent at all).

So basically french people's taxes are paying EDF so that EDF can sell electricity cheaper to other countries (thanks, french people I guess!)

[Yo]

The original target of the Biskai link was for it to be completed and operational by 2023. For now the estimation is for 2028, but who knows if France will resist/slow down the project even further.

It's ecology activist groups turn to slow down the project ^^ (spoiler: it already started).

There are multiple of other examples during the early 2000s, and a couple of other recent ones like the MidCat pipeline and BarMar.

We are getting away from the subject.
Midcat is a Gaz pipeline, France estimate the cost for the french part at around 2 to 3 billions EUR while not wanting it/feeling the need.
BarMar is Hydrogen, they studied feasibility during 2023/2024. Feel like putting the cart before the horse to me.

And just to add something else: France is "hiding" part of the cost of nuclear energy by state subsidizing EDF with bailouts, loans and debt guarantees. Also by putting price caps (42€/MWh as per the ARENH mechanism) to sell nuclear-generated electricity below the cost of production for newer reactors. Aaaand adding to that by externalizing/excluding costs (maintenance, updating and decommissioning costs, plus the fact that nuclear waste management costs are not transparent at all).

The 42€/MWh (ARENH) is imposed to EDF by EU to lower its competitiveness. They have to sell at a loss to COMPETITORS (they resell it at higher price), it made scandals during the gaz apocalypse with competitors firing customers while keeping electricity rights (@42€) and reselling to EDF more than five time the price once customers went to EDF for electricity (EDF can't refuse to provide electricity to a customer by law).
French nuclear is estimated between 50.20€/MWh and 60.70€/MWh (between 2022 and 2030) by CRE (Energy Regulation Commission)
I will not get into the "France is hiding part of the cost" I'm not good enough to check, EDF handling is so fucked up even from outside it shines.

[heffeque]

It's ecology activist groups turn to slow down the project ^^ (spoiler: it already started).

Five years of delays due to activist groups... yep, very convenient.

We are getting away from the subject.
Midcat is a Gaz pipeline, France estimate the cost for the french part at around 2 to 3 billions EUR while not wanting it/feeling the need.
BarMar is Hydrogen, they studied feasibility during 2023/2024. Feel like putting the cart before the horse to me.

"not wanting it/feeling the need" yup, there you go. Thanks for agreeing!

I will not get into the "France is hiding part of the cost" I'm not good enough to check, EDF handling is so fucked up even from outside it shines.

Agreed.