Quote from: _MT_ on February 02, 2021, 10:04:02
Quote from: vertigo on February 01, 2021, 16:14:05
To "call them out" requires making an actual point about it, and ideally that should involve an automatic drop in their score of at least a couple percent.
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And people should refuse to buy their products, and definitely wait to buy until they see reviews, though that should always be the case whenever possible, especially for something that expensive and where performance really matters, which obviously it does if you're buying a gaming laptop.
You can lower score as a punishment and incentive to change their ways but to readers, it's even more obscure than simply stating the value if you don't explicitly mention it. You call someone out when you actually talk about it. Consider how many people can't even understand how relatively small part of a rating plays performance. And that's something that should be obvious from the categories.
It's certainly laughable when a manufacturer claims that it can't state the value as it would be too complicated. :D Unfortunately, there is a very long and very generic (spanning all sorts of products) trend towards less and less detail and more and more meaningless BS (what we call the sauce). Often written by people who have no clue. Or consider the quality of sales people.
I like good reviews. The problem is that they take time. There are many products coming out. If you're unlucky, you might have to wait five or eight months, if not longer. After eight months, given the fast product cycles, a product is nearing irrelevance. And even then they might test a different configuration than you want. As you probably know, it can happen that one configuration is mediocre compared to other laptops with the same components while another is really good. And ideally, you'd want multiple samples in review so that you could establish confidence that what you're seeing is representative. And then driver or BIOS update comes and everything could be different. That's why I have given up, really. If I fancy it, I buy it and if I like it, I keep it. Then again, I'm very comfortable financially. For me, it was always the case that I just hate to waste money. I was brought up that way. And I believe in voting with money; I really hate the idea of supporting bad products and rewarding bad advertising.
I think we're actually in full agreement. I'm not saying they should
just reduce the score, I'm saying they should do so and
say why they're doing it. IOW, they should absolutely comment on every review if the OEM is hiding the info, which is "calling them out," I'm just saying they should take it a step further to really hold these OEMs feet to the fire (as much as a single site can) by
additionally lowering the score. And that it's not enough to just "call them out" in one article but then not mention it in the reviews, as if the article alone is enough. It doesn't sound like that's NBC's intention, but it wouldn't surprise me, and if that's all they did, mention it once here then in reviews simply state the TGP so consumers know what it is, without saying if the OEM is hiding that info, that's not calling them all, that's making a single point about it that will get buried in a couple weeks then continuing to do normal reviews. That's my point.
And yes, as I said, you're not always going to get a timely review, or even a review at all, on the configuration or even model you want, especially if it's not a really popular one. Which is why it's even more important to insist on this info from the OEMs and also AMD and Nvidia. I also believe in voting with my wallet, but sadly most people done, and it can often be very hard to do. For example, as much as I hate Lenovo, the laptop I just bought is a Lenovo, because they're the only ones with TrackPoints and decent keyboards (and even those are going downhill), aside from supposed models from Dell and HP that are much more expensive and not as good. And as much as I hate Lenovo, Dell and HP are pretty bad, too, and I won't buy another MS product. Basically, if you have even fairly specific requirements your options are limited, and if you want to avoid brands that are consistently poor they're limited a lot more. So in the end, quite often I end up buying something from a brand I'd rather not support, because otherwise I'd never buy anything or I'd buy something that didn't meet my needs. It's an unfortunate reality of the current state of things.
And yes, to a point you can buy and return, and you don't even have to have a lot of money to do that, since returning gets you your money back to try something else. But that takes a lot of time, first in research (I'm not just going to blindly buy something like a laptop, even figuring on returning it if it doesn't meet my needs), then testing it and getting it set up and using it, then realizing it's not working out and returning it and starting the cycle all over again. Not to mention if it's a special order laptop that took weeks to even arrive, like my new laptop. For something cheaper and more basic, I tend to do that more, but for something big/involved/expensive, I try really hard to be sure it's the thing I want before investing in it. And that would be a lot harder if I were looking for a gaming laptop with all this crap going on, and personally, if I had to get one without having reviews to gauge them on and had to rely on that strategy, I'd tend more toward brands that are transparent to help minimize the chances of having to return it, not to mention to reward them for their pro-consumer stance. Maybe NBC should prioritize reviewing models from OEMs that are transparent over ones that aren't.