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Have a mid-sized Honda Ridgeline (probably considered "small" in today's truck market.) We have a trailer that I estimate between 4-5,000 pounds.

Without trailer Freeway: 21 MPG

Without trailer City/Highway: 18 MPG

With Trailer Highway: 8-10 MPG.

It doesn't impact our trips much at all, really, since we fill up before we hitch up, and maybe 1-2 stops for a typical 3-5 hour trip into the woods/mountains (We don't need to adjust fill-ups for our trip, there are gas stations even in rural towns.)

Cybertruck would be 4 times the cost of our current perfectly functional setup!

For this to work, you probably want the v4 superchargers to be more common, and the extended range version of the cybertruck

That said, why didn't he cover his boat? He is paying a huge aerodynamics penalty. On top of that he is towing it backwards and not forward which makes aerodynamics even worse

It has been proven in tow tests that you'd rather tow something 5x heavier than poor aerodynamics. If he would have towed it forward and covered it in a cover, he'd like get at least double the range

Dog on Tesla, get more clicks. Rip on the CyberTruck, get more clicks. Fine journalism.

Of course; this guy has it all.   He probably don't get anything for his birthday, or Christmas because he have all the wealth to himself.   People all around the world don't even have clean drinking water; nor adequate food to eat.  Perhaps God did make a mistake; afterall,  when he decided to make other races of people; particularly BLACK people that would get neglected, and hated to the point of poverty, and starvation; while others live with great abundance, wealth, and blessings; alike. God should have made everybody to be white caucasion in order that we too would live with a great abundance.

1. That boat is nowhere near 11,000 lb, more like 4,000.
2. As he said, driving way too fast, should be going max 60 miles an hour.
3. Disagree that covering the boat would make it so easier, however dropping that tall top that was flapping in the wind would have helped some and would have been easy.
4. Stop testing the acceleration, that hurts range tremendously.
5. Stop quoting cost for charging on the road where you're being charged 30, 40, 50 cents a kilowatt hour when charging at home cost small fractions of that. That would be like saying that a gasoline car is so much more expensive when I went on a trip and paid $15 a gallon for gas, ridiculous. Why do we never hear about people charging their EVs at five six or seven cents a kilowatt hour during off peak hours at home, when that is where the majority of charging happens?

Yes, electric vehicles are not good at towing, mostly due to their slow rate of refueling compared to a gasoline or diesel vehicle. Gasoline or diesel vehicles drop their efficiency tremendously when towing due to the extra drag.  Electric vehicles seem to drop even worse due to drag and inefficiency at high power levels.  Both those things make for a bad towing combination.

Enjoy the extremely inexpensive driving around town of an EV when charged at low cost, tow short distances, rent an IC vehicle when needing to tow long distances, save lots of money and maintenance.  Not difficult.

That boat according to Godfrey themselves lists the weight of the boat at 3k and your probably less that 1,000 lbs trailer weight. 11,000 lbs is almost 4x the actual weight.

11000 lbs?  Not a chance. That tritoon is like 4000 lbs max.  Sure towing a  big pontoon is a huge wind brake, but it's not 11000 lbs. Imagine if this CT was actually towing 11000 lbs. Would it get 15% of range and not 30%?   Towing my 5000 lb 25 ft runabout with my 12000 lb capable V8 half ton truck, I get about 40% less mpg, but I've got a 36 g tank and I can go ~400 miles towing that per tank.

That said, this guy's quickly learned why ev's suck for towing.


A couple of other observations, this guy doesn't understand how to get the cover on his Bimini on properly as it was flapping around the whole time, and he is clearly a novice at towing and launching a boat as evidenced by his attempts at the launch. 

11,000lb. Unless there is an enormous brake upgrade on the trailer he is a menace on the road

Update: A previous version of this article incorrectly mentioned the total towing load as 11,000 pounds. Based on the title of the video and the shockingly poor overall efficiency, I assumed that number to be correct. Last winter, a different YouTuber tested the Cybertruck's towing range with an 11,000-pound load, and his results were largely the same as these (less than a mile/kWh). The fact that the boat and trailer weigh approximately 4,000 pounds makes the overall range performance (while towing) of the Cybertruck even poorer than I previously thought. I apologise for the oversight.

Stop giving these people attention, no one bought a Cyber truck to tow with seriously.  They did it to make s*** videos and get attention, stop giving it to them.

The article simultaneously calls the Cybertruck "capable" while discussing the fact it is useless as a truck. That would make it not capable. The "power" is also somewhat undermined by the fact that one can hardly use it.

Most cybertruck owners probably won't use it to tow because it isn't a useful truck, which is odd because it's right in the name. People who want to tow will buy an actual truck.

The GM Silverado EV can tow up to 12,500lb in some packages, and absolutely dunks on the Cybertruck for towing range. Tesla had the market advantage and let it slip through their fingers because the CEO is a clown that couldn't focus on just building a real product and delivering it on time.

You have to give it to elon musk for trying to make the truck that just wouldn't go, you should have bought a V8 if you're going to tow anything, you know that, the fact that you can afford an electric truck like the cybertruck means you don't have any room to complain about anything, at all, at this point in your life anyway, hopefully you never become poor, reversals of fortune happen all the time however.... did you never read Ecclesiastes 9:11? It says... the Swift do not always win the race, nor do the mighty win the battle, nor do the wise always have the food, nor do the intelligent always have the riches, nor do those with knowledge always have success, because time and unexpected events overtake them all... in this case a dead battery and extra charging times. Had you purchased a real truck you would just have stopped and got gas and it would have been a non-event

Truck is amazing. So, towing is not its strength. I would rather have that over an F-150 that looks the same over past 20 years!

Tesla is trash why would anyone thing a garbage can could tow anything

Good morning Ken C, ty for that scripture ref.  He can have 2 trucks, one for towing and one for charging.  :)

Perfect example of the media working against Elon to hurt him making all of you look like fools in the process. Article is full of crap proof is in the description of travel. Towing a 40 foot trailer and boat weighing 4000lbs. What was he towing a raft?
4000lbs is the weight of the trailer alone. Total weight was probably close to the 11,000lbs towing capacity if not, actually 3000lbs over because title says 11,000lbs boat.
Ps built and delivered boats for 20yrs.
Get over it people and stop wasting your lives on something that does not concern you in any way.

Besides being a hideous looking pile of trash, it's overpriced and worthless, a boobie prize for someone who wishes to waste $. ALL ev are trash think about the RF that is screaming ad all ev are a giant lithium battery under your a** cooking your hemorrhoids and everything else. They can  ontrol your vehicle at will and the no taste in looks..YUCK garbage wait and see what happens within a short period of time. Keep on following what your told trolls. Tick tock ⏰️ 💥..enjoy the show 🍿

Quote from: A on June 26, 2024, 19:33:38For this to work, you probably want the v4 superchargers to be more common, and the extended range version of the cybertruck

That said, why didn't he cover his boat? He is paying a huge aerodynamics penalty. On top of that he is towing it backwards and not forward which makes aerodynamics even worse

It has been proven in tow tests that you'd rather tow something 5x heavier than poor aerodynamics. If he would have towed it forward and covered it in a cover, he'd like get at least double the range

Lol braindead Tesla shill.

Whaaaa! Don't say anything bad about CT or Elon, it hurts our feelings!

Are all these "Telsa fails happening in USA only cause Europe not as mich as these articles bring up"?

And of course, they didn't carry out and document this wholy pointless exercise just to get more clicks on their you tube site.....

It's just about the most obvious outcome you could think of given the situation, assuming even a modicum of intelligence.  😂

No issues with mine towing a trailer across 7 states. Guess mileage will vary when driver isn't keeping speed reasonable and boat pointing wrong way and not covered.

Other than the standard Tesla love and hate commentary, seems almost everyone missed a major error in the article. The author stated effort declined by one third. They actually traveled 30 miles on the energy it takes to travel 100 miles. That's not a decline of one third, it's a 70 percent reduction. The 225 mile range is now just 68 miles. That seems to be....well, not good.

the electric power here in Ma. is generated with 60% fossil fuel.  with the line loss of the grid, loss in generator inefficiency, the battery loss due to charging loss, battery age loss, battery loss over parked-time, and cold loss, the driver is using an incredible amount of fossil fuel to power the "electric" truck/car. at the present time electric vehicles are wasting a lot of fossil fuel generated energy. think about leaving your lights on in the kitchen overnight.  you might not but the car uses that much electric because on one hill en-route.

It's a cyberhatchback, not a truck.

Quote from: paoljjx on June 27, 2024, 18:15:07the electric power here in Ma. is generated with 60% fossil fuel.  with the line loss of the grid, loss in generator inefficiency, the battery loss due to charging loss, battery age loss, battery loss over parked-time, and cold loss, the driver is using an incredible amount of fossil fuel to power the "electric" truck/car. at the present time electric vehicles are wasting a lot of fossil fuel generated energy. think about leaving your lights on in the kitchen overnight.  you might not but the car uses that much electric because on one hill en-route.

The fact that i have to explain to you how electricity production works proves how incapable you are while your holding a smartphone in your hand.

You could look up facts about the physics if electricity production yet you don't and just make up stuff on your own.

Everything you wrote is simply wrong.

The article seems fairly written. Although, I dsagree with referring to the monstrosity known as the CT as a pickup truck. So, to give it props saying that it goes fast for a pickup truck is not accurate.

Quote from: Todd V on June 27, 2024, 17:54:13Other than the standard Tesla love and hate commentary, seems almost everyone missed a major error in the article. The author stated effort declined by one third. They actually traveled 30 miles on the energy it takes to travel 100 miles. That's not a decline of one third, it's a 70 percent reduction. The 225 mile range is now just 68 miles. That seems to be....well, not good.

I don't see anywhere in the article where the author stated, "effort declined by one third."

I *do* see, however, where the author stated, "efficiency declined to a third [from ~100 to ~30]." That is an accurate statement.

Quote from: Jeremy on June 27, 2024, 16:07:45Besides being a hideous looking pile of trash, it's overpriced and worthless, a boobie prize for someone who wishes to waste $. ALL ev are trash think about the RF that is screaming ad all ev are a giant lithium battery under your a** cooking your hemorrhoids and everything else. They can  ontrol your vehicle at will and the no taste in looks..YUCK garbage wait and see what happens within a short period of time. Keep on following what your told trolls. Tick tock ⏰️ 💥..enjoy the show 🍿

Who is the troll?

Are you seriously trying to say that ice based personal transportation is better than evs?

So you somehow think burning gasoline, (which required how much fossil fuel energy to find, drill, extract, refine and deliver to the gas station) which drives hundreds of moving parts in your v8/automatic transmission drive train is superior in use of resources, ease of use, ease of maintenance, reliability, performance and effect on the environment?

Saying all evs are trash is not only about the most ignorantly absurd statement a person could make, it also proves you are just saying it to be a troll yourself. Because anyone who actually believes that to be true, especially after looking at the bigger picture as i have illustrated, wouldn't be mentally capable of even reading the article, let alone commenting on it.

It also means you have clearly not taken the time to think about the subject matter, which means you could care less. Further proving without a doubt, you are a troll and are inherently incapable of providing value to the conversation.

So, please, on behalf of all those who have opinions, regardless of their side, I say to you,

"STFU! Grown UPS are talking!"

Quote from: Really? on June 27, 2024, 15:25:21Perfect example of the media working against Elon to hurt him making all of you look like fools in the process. Article is full of crap proof is in the description of travel. Towing a 40 foot trailer and boat weighing 4000lbs. What was he towing a raft?
4000lbs is the weight of the trailer alone. Total weight was probably close to the 11,000lbs towing capacity if not, actually 3000lbs over because title says 11,000lbs boat.
Ps built and delivered boats for 20yrs.
Get over it people and stop wasting your lives on something that does not concern you in any way.

Hahaha, you built and delivered boats for 20 years and now claim that a pontoon boat like the one in the video weighs 11,000lbs with the trailer? Are you on crack or just another pathetic Elon/Tesla apologist!?

If only Elon would stop supporting neo-nazis....

25mpg to 15mpg is the change I see in my old truck when towing a boat. Gas cars lose 40-50% of their "range" too when towing. You just fill up as the gas station more. Same thing different day. Why is this even news?

The fact that this comes as a surprise to some people only serves to highlight the lack of intelligence among Tesla Cybertruck owners and, to some extent, the broader community.

224 miles of range?
What?
Weird. I keep getting WAY more than that in my Cybertruck.

I don't understand why people write articles about how bad the Cybertruck towing efficiency is when towing with any vehicle drops the efficiency to 30%-60%. There is nothing special going on here.

I towed a Mini Countryman with a Model X. The cost of towing and only charging at superchargers from the Pacific Ocean to the Atlantic Ocean was $4 less, than had I used a gas vehicle that was not towing.

The savings are 100% there!

This doesn't have much to do with the cybertruck, it is any EV pickup ever. Sure, it's an issue, but it's non-exclusive.

It's not useful for towing or hauling. It is meant to be sold as a status symbol. The only problem with that is it looks completely ridiculous.

Quote from: RC II on June 26, 2024, 23:49:52rent an IC vehicle when needing to tow long distances, save lots of money and maintenance.  Not difficult.

Finding a vehicle to rent for towing is actually extremely difficult.

The Cybertruck has power, great.  Power to do what?  It most certainly doesn't have the power to tow.  Does the cybertruck have ample bed room like similar ICE trucks of the same size?  Those who can afford cybertrucks have jobs that aren't physical, like construction.  The "truck" is a status symbol for the white collar employee.  The cybertruck just isn't practical.  It's an oversized Tesla sedan.

Itll be really funny to see all the electric vehicles burning in a pile when folks realize the impact it takes to produce them, and the lack of resources to outfit a planet in evs. It was never going to be possible. Short sighted thinking that is making the situation worse already. Just so we can have a ton of uneducated folks driving around planet crushing vehicles, while that listen to yacht rock. Hydrogen is and always will be the answer. The infrastructure is attainable, and the fuel is basically clean as it gets. Lets stop talking about how "awsome" our stupid evs are, and put some effort into cleaner more sustainable fuel now, instead of just acting like we've solved the problem. Sorry you folks wasted your money lining someone else's pocket for a very costly weaker alternative.

This is amazing. To have a zero carbon footprint vehicle, MAKE A HYBRID. Combine Tesla's Truck with the WATER ENGINE, that Musk just invented. Should extend the range d bit,sybe double or triple the range.x10 the range. Also, need a motor transmission that shifts number of windings of copper on the armature. I mean seriously? There are design issues not being addressed. This is easy enough to solve. But I doubt just anyone could. I saw the Enron hybrid energy exhibit 8n Chicago in the 1980's and frankly, for some reason people don't think like that.

Well if someone needs help, call me.

At the moment the best way to carry a quantity of energy is compression of the lightest metal. Perhaps creation of a pure proton metal would exceed the density of compression of the vapor. One can be sure our energy needs are coming from the proton. ExxonMobil is creating a decarbonizion device to produce 1 billion gallons a day in equivalent hydrogen. Sourced from natural gas our most abundant energy source. Agriculture can easily be involved in composting to source methane. The resulting CO² from the process should be feed to organic life, as a more efficient with a lower impact environmentally. Greenhouse grown hemp can produce many profitable products, even eventually replacing alcohol as a social libation putting the stars in Starbucks. Hemp fiber, and feed for cattle. All of this would move a lot of agriculture indoors, perhaps in long tunnels under ground. Summing up that studies show HEMP is an excellent absorption candidate for CO² while requiring less water than cotton. All of this puts H² in a bottle which has an energy density attractive for aircraft fuel. That 90 bar bottle of hydrogen will tow your boat around the world while also powering the boat in the water. The future in very different as we discover how to increase compression, and how to make generators that fit the palm of your hand so that your power tools run on the blue gas. I long ago invented a better wind machine back in 1980. Investors told me it had no future, I love to live long enough to see this proven wrong. Energy is the ultimate currency, Elon is learning how true that is.

where did the electric come from? Fossil fuel. I saw a video the other day of a Tesla charging station being powered by a diesel generator.

Stop complaining about the 11,000 pounds thing, it literally says that it's 4000! Reading comprehension skills are lacking.



"A Tesla Cybertruck owner, through a YouTube video, shared his real-life experience of using the contentious pickup truck to tow his boat on a 40-foot trailer, with a total weight of an estimated 4,000 pounds - which happens to be significantly lower than the dual-motor version's maximum towing capacity of 11,000 pounds."

Quote from: Sambit Saha on June 27, 2024, 02:09:58Update: A previous version of this article incorrectly mentioned the total towing load as 11,000 pounds. Based on the title of the video and the shockingly poor overall efficiency, I assumed that number to be correct. Last winter, a different YouTuber tested the Cybertruck's towing range with an 11,000-pound load, and his results were largely the same as these (less than a mile/kWh). The fact that the boat and trailer weigh approximately 4,000 pounds makes the overall range performance (while towing) of the Cybertruck even poorer than I previously thought. I apologise for the oversight.

It is due to the poor aerodynamics. Bjorn back in the day did testing on towing with Model X. Towing a 4950lb  car resulted in more range than towing a 1550lb empty horse trailer. That is what difference of aerodynamics make at higher speeds

Quote from: paoljjx on June 27, 2024, 18:15:07think about leaving your lights on in the kitchen overnight.  you might not but the car uses that much electric because on one hill en-route.

LED lighting these days doesn't use that much electricity really

That said, an EV will recover most of the energy climbing a hill with regenerative braking when it goes back down hill

Quote from: George on June 28, 2024, 18:30:07Itll be really funny to see all the electric vehicles burning in a pile when folks realize the impact it takes to produce them, and the lack of resources to outfit a planet in evs. It was never going to be possible. Short sighted thinking that is making the situation worse already. Just so we can have a ton of uneducated folks driving around planet crushing vehicles, while that listen to yacht rock. Hydrogen is and always will be the answer. The infrastructure is attainable, and the fuel is basically clean as it gets. Lets stop talking about how "awsome" our stupid evs are, and put some effort into cleaner more sustainable fuel now, instead of just acting like we've solved the problem. Sorry you folks wasted your money lining someone else's pocket for a very costly weaker alternative.

The impact it takes to produce an EV isn't that much more than an ICE car, and less than a hydrogen car. There is no shortage of resources to outfit everyone with an EV, but you make a funny statement considering hydrogen cars require more resources than EVs. Hydrogen is a scam for the st*pid people who don't understand how the technology actually works, all people are told that "hydrogen will be just like gas" or that "look how light hydrogen is" but don't realize it is nothing like gas. And there is more to a car's drivetrain than simply the fuel, they require far far more parts

Quote from: Mage AmenRa on June 29, 2024, 09:26:49At the moment the best way to carry a quantity of energy is compression of the lightest metal. Perhaps creation of a pure proton metal would exceed the density of compression of the vapor. One can be sure our energy needs are coming from the proton. ExxonMobil is creating a decarbonizion device to produce 1 billion gallons a day in equivalent hydrogen. Sourced from natural gas our most abundant energy source. Agriculture can easily be involved in composting to source methane. The resulting CO² from the process should be feed to organic life, as a more efficient with a lower impact environmentally. Greenhouse grown hemp can produce many profitable products, even eventually replacing alcohol as a social libation putting the stars in Starbucks. Hemp fiber, and feed for cattle. All of this would move a lot of agriculture indoors, perhaps in long tunnels under ground. Summing up that studies show HEMP is an excellent absorption candidate for CO² while requiring less water than cotton. All of this puts H² in a bottle which has an energy density attractive for aircraft fuel. That 90 bar bottle of hydrogen will tow your boat around the world while also powering the boat in the water. The future in very different as we discover how to increase compression, and how to make generators that fit the palm of your hand so that your power tools run on the blue gas. I long ago invented a better wind machine back in 1980. Investors told me it had no future, I love to live long enough to see this proven wrong. Energy is the ultimate currency, Elon is learning how true that is.

H2 has poor energy density by volume and needs heavy expensive containers, you are better off making biojet fuel which can reuse same airplanes. There is not enough land area to produce enough hemp to power cars, even more so since biofuel is more useful in planes and trucks

For cars, EVs is the superior choice. Same for semi trucks. For the short term, in light trucks probably the best option is plugin hybrids like the 2025 ram charger. In long term as battery prices continue to drop, the best option would be trailers that have batteries in them with the trailers also doing regenerative braking.

I see people posting here saying things like "you can't include charging costs from fast chargers when towing because charging at home is so much cheaper", or that EV's require very little more energy to build than an ICE car, or claims that an ICE car will also use 60% more energy to haul a trailer just like an EV, etc...
My 5 year old truck goes from roughly 23 mpg down to 19 mpg with 2 horses in their trailer, which is nowhere near 60% more energy, and If you are traveling anywhere beyond 50 miles from home you cannot just charge at home, requiring you to pay those high fees at charging stations, because you simply cannot bring any extra power from your home charger with you, and how many people take a trailer on holiday that dont travel
eyond 50 miles from home? My guess is very few, making that argument for EV's simply moronic. As for the claim that ICE cars require very nearly the same amount of energy to make as an EV is also incorrect. Aside from the diesel powered equipment used in mining, EV's require much more strip mining for the materials to make their batteries, which causes a lot more environmental damage from those mines(tho as long as they are in places like africa so they arent so visible to the public, and pay only pennies for the child labor used in the mining process, the EV lovers can just ignore these costs, so they won't count them(that mining also creates tonnes and tonnes more toxic waste to be dealt with during that mining and refining processes, and leaves tonnes and tonnes of extremely toxic materials in the form of those batteries that will have to be dealt with at the end of the cars useful life cycle. What about the particulate pollution from EV's wearing out tires at a rate 2 to 3 times of an ICE car, tires that also cost a lot more, or the extra wear on roads themselves due to EV's being a couple thousand pounds heavier, which also extends stopping distances, and makes an EV more difficult to be able to be controlled in emergency situations, especially in colder climates where winter driving involves snow and ice...
There is so much devotion towards EV's for some, that they intentionally and willfully ignore the disadvantages, and I wonder, is this because misery loves company, or do they just not care that their claims can cause big issues for others that get convinced that using an EV for a holiday involving hauling a trailer is no more inconvenient than using an ICE vehicle?
Oh yeah, I really laugh at those that show their excitement while announcing that their EV can preheat the cab of their car before being driven in winter, as they ignore the fact they lose 30% or so of range to heat the cabin, and apparently have never heard of remote starters that have been preheating the cab of vehicles for a couple decades, in vehicles that do not lose any range at all to keep its occupants warm, nor do they lose 30-50% of range just due to the cold winter temperatures like an EV does due to its batteries.
Imagine how mad you would be to find half of every tank of gas you paid good money for, gone because it's chilly outside, as if siphoned off over night every night... I'd be pissed at losing that money every day it's slightly cold out... I guess EV drivers don't mind having half their fuel vanish, and half the money they  spent fueling up on every fill...
...but then again, they don't seem to mind paying 50% more for essentially the exact same car but with only half the range, and requiring hours to charge rather than minutes, so what do I know...

Quote from: Gregg on July 01, 2024, 20:42:18I see people posting here saying things like "you can't include charging costs from fast chargers when towing because charging at home is so much cheaper", or that EV's require very little more energy to build than an ICE car, or claims that an ICE car will also use 60% more energy to haul a trailer just like an EV, etc...
My 5 year old truck goes from roughly 23 mpg down to 19 mpg with 2 horses in their trailer, which is nowhere near 60% more energy, and If you are traveling anywhere beyond 50 miles from home you cannot just charge at home, requiring you to pay those high fees at charging stations, because you simply cannot bring any extra power from your home charger with you, and how many people take a trailer on holiday that dont travel beyond 50 miles from home?

The mistake you are making is you aren't comparing a 1 to 1 comparison. Any test has to be done with same route, with same driving habits and towing same thing

Also, you would still get some of your energy while towing from home, even if it isn't all of it. And Charging stations generally cost less than gas too

QuoteMy guess is very few, making that argument for EV's simply moronic. As for the claim that ICE cars require very nearly the same amount of energy to make as an EV is also incorrect. Aside from the diesel powered equipment used in mining, EV's require much more strip mining for the materials to make their batteries, which causes a lot more environmental damage from those mines(tho as long as they are in places like africa so they arent so visible to the public, and pay only pennies for the child labor used in the mining process, the EV lovers can just ignore these costs, so they won't count them(that mining also creates tonnes and tonnes more toxic waste to be dealt with during that mining and refining processes, and leaves tonnes and tonnes of extremely toxic materials in the form of those batteries that will have to be dealt with at the end of the cars useful life cycle.

I think you are confused about something. EVs aren't ICE cars with a large battery. Motors are smaller than engines, you don't need a complex transmission, nor all those pipes and all those stuff preventing an engine from impaling you in a crash. EVs actually allow for smaller exteriors than ICE cars while having bigger interiors due to simplicity of a skateboard platform

And as EVs move away from their ICE car legacies, they become more efficient and of course supply chains also improve

The so called cobalt that is mined in Africa with child labor that you speak of has been mined for decades to refine oil. That never seemed to have never bugged you at all, why now?

On top of that, with the IRA most battery material production is moving locally. Meanwhile cobalt for oil refining will continue to use child labor in Africa. And at that point you'll stop caring like you never did

Lastly, battery materials are recycled. Unlike the oil you burn

QuoteWhat about the particulate pollution from EV's wearing out tires at a rate 2 to 3 times of an ICE car, tires that also cost a lot more, or the extra wear on roads themselves due to EV's being a couple thousand pounds heavier, which also extends stopping distances, and makes an EV more difficult to be able to be controlled in emergency situations, especially in colder climates where winter driving involves snow and ice...

As long as you don't accelerate like crazy and use chill mode, the tires will last as much as an ICE car. And you have far less pollution from use of breaks and tires due to regenerative braking.

Many EVs already weigh similar to their ICE counterparts. And as EVs move more and more away from ICE platforms to optimized EV platforms, their weight will go down even more

As for cold areas, since EVs do not leak water like ICE cars, it would significantly reduce black ICE on the roads. And digital awd does much better at handling snow and ice. Regenerative braking also acts as backup when you can't get grip of the road

QuoteOh yeah, I really laugh at those that show their excitement while announcing that their EV can preheat the cab of their car before being driven in winter, as they ignore the fact they lose 30% or so of range to heat the cabin, and apparently have never heard of remote starters that have been preheating the cab of vehicles for a couple decades, in vehicles that do not lose any range at all to keep its occupants warm, nor do they lose 30-50% of range just due to the cold winter temperatures like an EV does due to its batteries.

Talk about ignorance. You preheat the cabin precisely because you don't want to lose range. Maintaining temperature in a cabin uses little energy. Most of your losses are changing temperature and loss of regenerative braking on cold start. By preheating the interior, your losses after that is similar to an ICE car

As for your remote starter, try that in a garage and see what happens. On top of that an EV can warm the interior much faster as you don't have to wait for the engine to warm up to circulate the heat

Quote...but then again, they don't seem to mind paying 50% more for essentially the exact same car but with only half the range, and requiring hours to charge rather than minutes, so what do I know...

Like all new technology, cost will always be high until it is mass produced at scale. At same production level as ICE cars, they will be cheaper.

As for charging, most people spend 0 minutes of their time charging, they just wake up every morning with full range. You don't need to stand in a blizzard or heatwave to fill up cause you are low, you just go straight home and wake up with full charged