NotebookCHECK - Notebook Forum

It's long overdue that battery tech catches up with the times as runtimes like these are abysmal especially for a high-end laptop of any category.

With laptop manufacturers sleeping in bed with Intel, the use of power hungry CPUs that don't give great performance over lesser options or AMD Apus, then what's the point of having these intel HX laptops? I guess to massage some egos..

It's the same story over and over. AMD sidelined for a flagship product of any manufacturer even though they have the overall better performing Apu. Then intel promises better efficiency and disappoints year over year since AMD's 3000 series Apus were introduced imo.

As usual they  don't have clue. This laptop could have been great with lesser CPU. Instead they just force people to buy everything premium.

On another popular website with laptop reviews, I already wrote a month ago about the shortcomings of this product from Lenovo.

But there is a little more input data for analysis, if of course you believe this data...

The screen panel does not stand up to criticism - the author did not even manage to calibrate it to dE below 2, which is surprising for miniLED IPS, compared to AMOLED, which in 99% of cases cannot be calibrated with dE<2. For such a price, AdobeRGB coverage is shameful, and coupled with poor calibration, the laptop definitely cannot be used for working with color. The panel also has too much response; there is no real 165Hz screen refresh rate to speak of. The picture is completed by the idiocy of the developers who chose the idiotic resolution of 3200x2000, which is not hardware compatible with 4k, 2.5k, or fhd. The result is a cloudy, pixel-level hardware image in 4k, 2.5k and fhd modes. Neither this nor that.

The laptop weighs more than 2.5k. This is 100% not a laptop for lugging around the streets, especially with a power supply that increases the weight by another 1 kg.
Question for Lenovo developers - where is the 18" 16:10 4k@120Hz - which we expected from Lenov's new "top" in 2023? This is a home laptop intended for rare car transportation from point A to point B and nothing more. Therefore, the diagonal should be 18" minimum, and weight already matters little. An adult can easily carry 5kg to a car, but comfort at point B with 4k@120Hz 18" 16:10 will be incomparably higher than with a poor outdated small 16".

The author did not even measure performance in native mode (where there is ideal pixel sharpness) - so as not to disgrace 4090 - the fps of which at this resolution obviously already drops below 60 in new games 2023. That is. in FACT, a laptop in native resolution is no longer suitable as a "gaming" laptop. Unless with an external 2.5k monitor. But is this top resolution? The price requires 4k...

The keyboard has a poor 1.5mm travel, which precludes its comfortable use for fast touch typing. And this is the top? Again, it is not suitable as a universal laptop.

Let's go further, the top processor clearly has weak performance compared to competitors with the same one. It is obvious that in such a case, despite the assurances about a super cooling system, it simply cannot cope with the hot Intel. Another question for the developers? Why the hell is Intel at "10nm" when there are already 7945X3D at "5nm", which are significantly faster at at least 1.5 times smaller PL1? Even the old 7945HX will still be 30% faster! Considering the shameful consumption of a laptop alone, even with Intel (where AMD has obvious problems), AMD is the place here, not Intel.

Let's go further - heating - it is obvious that the laptop overheats even at the keyboard level. This model STRICTLY cannot be used under a load above average with the screen cover closed! Otherwise, the screen panel with a critical operating temperature of only 50C will simply fail!

Noise - everything is clear here - such hardware, even in the case of an 18" model, will be impossible to cool properly, even in the version with a colder AMD.

What do we get for $4000? A noisy, overheating laptop, with performance well below average for this class in terms of processor and completely weak for games in native resolution, where there is full pixel sharpness. With a small, outdated 16" screen. Too heavy to be called "portable" and too dangerous for your budget in terms of long-term reliability. Although its buyers probably don't count money anymore...

We are expecting from Lenovo a new legion series on a normal 18" panel 4k@120-144Hz with a response of no more than 6-7 ms on G2G/B2W with a native contrast of 1800:1 (on LG Black IPS it is mandatory with an A-TW polarizer to suppress Glow effects ) on a semi-matte panel without the MiniLED crutch and its problems. With a normal 1.8mm responsive keyboard. With all the keys full width and height. With normal usb-a ports on the left and right and headphone outputs on the left and right, plus optical SPDIF with galvanic isolation from the laptop circuits. After all, this is top, right? And that means the sound quality should be top - and this is only for optics with galvanic isolation and a high-quality reference quartz oscillator at 44.1-192 kHz!

At the back, in a model with an AMD processor, which has as many as 24 free pci-e 5.0 links, there simply must be at least a proprietary x16 pci-e 4.0 port! For external desktop video cards! So that the owner is not limited to the poor mobile 4090! Or in the near future I could connect the 5090 and 6090 via a fairly fast bus and play comfortably with much less noise, at least at home! Moreover, there must be an input from an external video card to the built-in laptop screen! That is, the DP input port is at the back!

Although the question arises rhetorically, in general, - what does the rich Pinocchio need for this stupid craft? Who obviously has a large house and can afford to install a top-end desktop at both point A and point B? Yes, why is this series, who is it for? What kind of people are these who will throw away $4,000 and at the same time are not able to install full-fledged and quiet desktops everywhere in their habitats?

Quote from: NikoB on October 16, 2023, 11:49:32Although the question arises rhetorically, in general, - what does the rich Pinocchio need for this stupid craft? Who obviously has a large house and can afford to install a top-end desktop at both point A and point B? Yes, why is this series, who is it for? What kind of people are these who will throw away $4,000 and at the same time are not able to install full-fledged and quiet desktops everywhere in their habitats?

I'm a guy who bought a P650sg, 2,6kgs with a 980m in 2015. I am definitely interested in this one. 8 years after bougth i can still game with it, 2,6kgs is portable enough and if worries about heat you can always undervolt/underclock it. Yes it would be better with current AMD APUs.

Hot damn. And I thought the Tongfang liquid cooling was underwhelming.
Cooling vram is easy. It's trying to fit a vapour chamber and enough rad + fans in a stupid slim light case that makes everything heat up to get big dT and noisy high rpm fans to drive CFM and heat transfer, once the vc is hot the 'dumber' power and thermal regulation on vram chips means they suffer more.

I'm a user who wanted a replacement for my 6 year old desktop replacement, who values engineering and value over portability and looks, that's why I passed on every high end laptop this year. They all suck in major way/s. I can get a hot thin midrange 2022 POS from last year for $1K why would I pay $2K or $4K for basically the same thing on 2023. Sigh

Quote from: NikoB on October 16, 2023, 11:49:32With normal usb-a ports on the left and right and headphone outputs on the left and right, plus optical SPDIF with galvanic isolation from the laptop circuits. After all, this is top, right? And that means the sound quality should be top - and this is only for optics with galvanic isolation and a high-quality reference quartz oscillator at 44.1-192 kHz!

It's a funny thing that Lenovo and many top laptop manufacturers priduce a top end gaming 'creative' laptop and forget about the audiophiles! They think only the screen matters (yet they failed at that this far in all offerings that I've seen) and thought to consider that they those who produce sounds are 'creative' users as well.
At 4 grand for basically all-in-one multimedia device, then at least the important multimedia should be included.

Quote from: Rasec on October 16, 2023, 15:01:34

Quote from: NikoB on October 16, 2023, 11:49:32Although the question arises rhetorically, in general, - what does the rich Pinocchio need for this stupid craft? Who obviously has a large house and can afford to install a top-end desktop at both point A and point B? Yes, why is this series, who is it for? What kind of people are these who will throw away $4,000 and at the same time are not able to install full-fledged and quiet desktops everywhere in their habitats?

I'm a guy who bought a P650sg, 2,6kgs with a 980m in 2015. I am definitely interested in this one. 8 years after bougth i can still game with it, 2,6kgs is portable enough and if worries about heat you can always undervolt/underclock it. Yes it would be better with current AMD APUs.

It's asinine that they used intel HX and a half-baked rtx 4090 in a 16" laptop and liquid cooling only for the vrams!?
For a $4k top end multimedia laptop, already at 5.5lbs with mediocre performance, why not get an appropriately specced 18' screen with both audio and video/gaming features for the 'creatives', AMD HX with proper liquid cooling for both apu and gpu, packed neatly for 1-1.5lbs more? Also if they flipped the motherboard so as not to access the ram slots from the bottom, then  allow the keyboard to be removed for ram access then (to Lenovo, do you remember when the keyboard was removable with 2 screws?)
The target used clearly not looking for thin+light, so why shortcut the buyer who would invest $4k in this multimedia device? Arrogance and greed it looks like to me...

As it was Lenovo who gave the review sample, I really hope the review author pass on these concerns (not holding my breath).
Or are the reviewers so conservative in their assessments so as to continue receiving review samples?

was your test unit precalibrated from factory and includes the ICC profile?

Under the german review someone wrote (translated): "Who would buy a gaming laptop for 5000€ that is still ~52 dB(A) loud while gaming? When I read the headline "GeForce RTX 4090 with integrated liquid cooling", I thought that would help. But the Legion 9i is neither faster nor quieter than other gaming laptops."

On point! And I will add the following, which Bennyg1 also complained about: TOO THIN!!

Alan writes: "Fan noise ramps ... up to 52.2 dB(A) when gaming on Performance mode ... noise would drop slightly to 49.5 dB(A) ... on Balanced mode instead, but keep in mind the 17 percent graphics deficit when compared to Performance mode ... Headphones when gaming are recommended in either case."

Wow! 17 % less performance with still very loud 50db, which force you to wear fat headphones. Great job, Lenovo!
I just don't get this obsessive sticking to this ultra thin trash!! It is so frustrating, because it would have great potential but they waste it for a shitty thin marketing trash design. It is the same for the Alienware X16. Great cooling design with 4 somewhat big fans but 5mm too thin (M16 only comes with 3 fans (I won't call this tiny toy fan a "fan))

Is this a delayed april fool's joke? The "world's thinnest internal watercooling" (can't tell you how I hate these marketing trash slogans like "the world's thinnest") which does not work until the GPU hits almost thermal limits on 84°C (???), a much too thin and light chassis (had hoped for 26-28mm and 3kg), Sodimm RAM on the back of the motherboard (LOL?) and this camouflage lid (don't care if it is carbon flakes or corn flakes) which do not show finger prints. Great, this silly military look is much less obvious ;-)

It's great to see that Lenovo comes up with more than two fans like other competitors. But Alienware has the better idea in my opinion: Shifting the cooling construction to the back of the motherboard (DIY repasting is neither recommended on liquid metal based TIMs nor necessary in terms of results) and Sodimm Ram easily accessable on the M16 or even 4 fans on the X16 while unfortunately being much too thin. A thicker X16 would literally blow away the whole competition.

Quote from: Gastredner on October 20, 2023, 11:24:35Alienware has the better idea in my opinion: Shifting the cooling construction to the back of the motherboard

And also the screws of two of four fans on the back so that easy cleaning is prevented.

Can you check please color accuracy in HDR mode?

youtu.be/1QDhKf8y1kg?t=5686

Youtube; GizmoSlipTech; GizmoSlipTech; Legion 9i Unboxing Review!; Timestamp 1:34:46

As you can see colors and brightness are way too off in HDR mode.
How you achieved 1025 nits in HDR?

I bought this laptop 3 weeks ago and I absolutely love it.
Yes its crazy expensive, especially in Norway.
Currently enjoying Baldurs Gate 3 and Starfield on max graphics.

People ask why this exists and I understand why people ask this question.
That being said, I am happy it exists because:
I spend 20 nights away from home, all around the world because of my job. (Aviation)
If I had a desktop, than I would never be able to game (ever!)

Quote from: Dmytro Serebriakov on October 20, 2023, 20:05:50Can you check please color accuracy in HDR mode?

youtu.be/1QDhKf8y1kg?t=5686

Youtube; GizmoSlipTech; GizmoSlipTech; Legion 9i Unboxing Review!; Timestamp 1:34:46

As you can see colors and brightness are way too off in HDR mode.
How you achieved 1025 nits in HDR?

I wouldn't trust the Gizmo as he is using a Spyder colorimeter.  According to the article, they used a i1pro2.  It is a WHOLE lot more accurate than the Spyder. 

But I do have a question though.  why they used a i1pro2 on this device but they used the i1pro3 on the Blade 16??

I don't even think the i1pro2 can read beyond 1000nits like the i1pro3.

now THAT'S questionable.

What's the point of discussing HDR on a wretched miniLED? This is not AMOLED.

Static HDR is only possible in full mode on AMOLED with a 1M:1 contrast ratio. This is much more important than 1000 nits of brightness.

The real contrast on miniLED in each included zone is no better than on IPS, because this is IPS technology, just with multi-zone backlighting.

Only Dynamic HDR aka HDR10+ works on IPS/VA panels.

IPS and MiniLED IPS Static HDR (HDR10) do not support a priori. Even with DCI-P3, 99% color space coverage.

HDR600 (if it is stated in the specifications for a laptop - and it is often not stated even on laptops with AMOLED screens, strange right?) is NOT HDR10, it is a crutch. Like miniLED, it is not OLED.

Quote from: NikoB on November 10, 2023, 16:57:32What's the point of discussing HDR on a wretched miniLED? This is not AMOLED.
Static HDR is only possible in full mode on AMOLED with a 1M:1 contrast ratio. This is much more important than 1000 nits of brightness.

Brightness is more important, because both OLED and MiniLED both have 0 black point. Contrast ratio is infinite on both, because you can't divide by zero.
OLED is much worse for HDR productivity.

Quote from: A on November 10, 2023, 17:57:31Brightness is more important, because both OLED and MiniLED both have 0 black point

You are technically illiterate. MiniLED does not have zero black brightness in the working area, only in the off areas. AMOLED has pixel control, miniLED has zone control - it's still the same IPS with poor native contrast on physical level.

Brightness is critical for the current implementation of Static HDR (HDR10) it must be at least 1000 nits, and the black level is no more than 0.0005 nits according to the standard.

Only AMOLED (with a real native contrast of 1M:1 - because as reviews have shown there are a bunch of lousy panels in laptops that don't meet these specifications, so they don't have the HDR10 nameplate) supports fully HDR10 (Static HDR version).

IPS and other options like VA with low native contrast can generally work with Dynamic HDR (HDR10+) or Dolby Vision (DV) which also uses dynamic metadata (but is created slightly differently). But most of the world's video content and games do not support HDR10+ and DV.

Therefore, today there is only one option if you need full HDR10 on a laptop - an AMOLED screen with a brightness of 1000 nits, no less, and a native real contrast of 1M: 1, no less. Everything else is profanation for illiterate ordinary people.

HDR400 is a pure fake and has nothing to do with the HDR10 standard in fact. HDR600 only has a requirement for an extended color gamut of at least 90% DCI-P3 and is essentially a fake standard; such a screen is not capable of displaying HDR10 content.

The majority of people are technically illiterate, which is taken advantage of by cunning marketers from manufacturers.

The only (in theory) competitor to AMOLED is microLED, which has not been able to escape the walls of laboratories for more than 10 years. Nobody needs another AMOLED option with terrible low-frequency PWM, fast burn-in and a glossy screen. Everyone wants high-frequency PWM, long resource, matte screen, excellent viewing angles, high real ppi, including in color and excellent color accuracy (dE<1) and native contrast from 1M:1. But this is not yet possible; scientists have not been able to make a screen ideal for human vision.

Quote from: NikoB on November 11, 2023, 10:46:03You are technically illiterate.

You don't even understand what contrast is, man. Contrast = white point aka brightness / black point. If your contrast is measurable aka "1M:1", then display is not true black. Even average MiniLEDs can have 500K:1 to infinite contrast, like, e.g. latest MBP M3 Max with zero black point and infinite contrast (see review). Apple never bothered itself with DisplayHDR certifications though, but it's a "HDR1000 True Black" material, also unreachable for OLEDs.

HDR10 is a signal format, it's a requirement for every DisplayHDR* specification. It doesn't limit black point in any way, DisplayHDR certifications do. Speaking of DisplayHDR btw, I think right now only MiniLEDs have HDR1000 and HDR1400 certification.

So yeah, if you want to game or watch your shows in bed at night, OLED will be cool, because even the cheapest have very low black point. If you want HDR productivity - there's a reason many companies, including Apple, use MiniLED. Probably they are a bit more "technically literate", than some random nobody NikoB, no? No answer needed, rhetoric question.

P.S. MicroLED is next level compared to *OLED, not a competitor. And it's not in the labs, you can grab one from Samsung for $80K to $220K. It's just mad expensive right now, but same was OLED at some point.

Uh, it is not "companies" versus NikoB but companies often decide on display types for PR reasons etc. Such as "MiniLED is easily marketed to content creators, so let's use it in this notebook whose PR shall follow the narrative 'for content creators'!".

Quote from: A on November 11, 2023, 14:51:00MicroLED is next level compared to *OLED

Just like OLED was "next level" compared to IPS / IGZO / VA - another PR tale.

Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 11, 2023, 14:53:48Uh, it is not "companies" versus NikoB but companies often decide on display types for PR reasons etc. Such as "MiniLED is easily marketed to content creators, so let's use it in this notebook whose PR shall follow the narrative 'for content creators'!".

It's just what real content creators prefer. Companies do their homework. They rarely care about opinion of forum dwellers who think they know because they've watched couple influencer videos and read some reddit posts.

Different content creators prefer different kinds of displays. E.g., I prefer IPS and - unlike some Youtube reviewers, such as TechNotice, define by far too restrictively - I am a content creator as publisher and author.

Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 11, 2023, 17:12:53Different content creators prefer different kinds of displays. E.g., I prefer IPS and - unlike some Youtube reviewers, such as TechNotice, define by far too restrictively - I am a content creator as publisher and author.

I run all three types. For photovideo editing I prefer MiniLED hands down, for movies or games OLED, and IPS is actually on its way out for me, I don't see myself buying IPS displays anymore when the two I already have break or get old. They are fine though, until you put them side to side with the other two.

Quote from: A on November 11, 2023, 14:25:59Probably they are a bit more "technically literate", than some random nobody NikoB, no? No answer needed, rhetoric question.

I will not comment on the nonsense that you wrote above, even if you are the owner of a miniLED+OLED, you still remain a technically illiterate person.

As for the corporations that know something better than me - they make money, they don't care about visual safety and the absence of problems. So yes, NikoB, like some of the normal Apple/Samsung engineers and researchers (I provided a link here to the opinion of one, you're just too young to remember this) understand this better than you and marketers+top managers (unless, of course, we put aside naivety in this matter and don't assume much worse - but I've definitely made sure that they have "watchers" everywhere who delete critical comments where the text is read by too many potential buyers, I've been convinced of this dozens of times), the owner of both. Amazing, right? But this is a fact.

Quote from: NikoB on November 11, 2023, 20:19:17I will not comment on the nonsense that you wrote above, even if you are the owner of a miniLED+OLED, you still remain a technically illiterate person.

Of course you will not comment, you finally looked up DisplayHDR sertifications criteria, M3Max MBP MiniLED display specs, figured out what HDR10 and you have nothing to say.

And yes, corporations know better what is best to which audience, than some random boi from Internet. Good luck.

Quote from: A on November 12, 2023, 13:08:08course you will not comment, you finally looked up DisplayHDR sertifications criteria, M3Max MBP MiniLED display specs, figured out what HDR10 and you have nothing to say.

Stupid troll, why are you trying to justify yourself when you have already proven yourself to be completely technically illiterate?

Quote from: A on November 12, 2023, 13:08:08And yes, corporations know better what is best to which audience, than some random boi from Internet. Good luck.

Once again, troll, corporations don't do anything unless it makes a profit and even if it hinders progress, they will deliberately make technically worse decisions. because this benefits them, and the crowd is always infinitely stupid and illiterate. As is constantly proven in practice - you are one of this technically illiterate crowd.

So yes, NikoB and some other experts know better than all the corporate engineers who obey the teams of cunning marketers and beneficiaries of the companies that listen to them. But for someone to listen to me and other experts, 90% of consumers must at least reach my and the experts' level of education and experience, which will never happen. Exactly the same as in politics - "most people make mistakes, because they are idiots" (c).

Quote from: NikoB on November 12, 2023, 14:34:26Stupid troll

Yeah, it's not news when you run out of arguments you always revert to abusive behaviour. This clear sign of you being crushed in conversation makes you look even worse.

Quote from: NikoB on November 12, 2023, 14:34:26yes, NikoB and some other experts know better than all the corporate engineers

Hahahaha yeah right, keep us posted.

Mine came preconfigured as raid 0 and had an issue disabling VMD. For some reason, this praticular setting does not get saved. I am not sure if it was a bad bios, or some fault.

Sadly I had to return it.