You are right with the rest, toto, but this is not entirely true tbh:

Quote from: toto1234 on Yesterday at 13:13:38Apple are luxury products.
They managed to transform a tech product (which by essence, is ephemeral) into a luxury and social status product. Kudos to them, it's quite a business achievement, no one can take that away from them.

First colour TVs, extremely expensive luxury products. Or let's go into less distant past, Nintendo's SNES, I remember that very well as I was a kid back then. Sega Mega, Amiga, Commodore etc. were all "for poor people", SNES was so popular but rare (because it was literally a luxury product) that everything was full of blatant copies of it (and I still own one of those). Then let's go into laptops, Sony Vaio line, pure luxury products back in the 2000s and very early 2010s). Apple is just the most recent brand in a long line of such products and that's just tech, there is plenty of those in all other fields (wristwatches for example).

Quote from: Mate on November 14, 2024, 01:37:05Its funny how people dont see that for quality you always pay a lot more than there is difference compared to 'normal quality'.

You on the other hand, have a hard time discerning high quality, from luxury.

Apple are luxury products.
They managed to transform a tech product (which by essence, is ephemeral) into a luxury and social status product. Kudos to them, it's quite a business achievement, no one can take that away from them.


But $400 for 24Gb of RAM and $1000 for 4Tb of SSD, is not high quality. It's simply extortion.

I stopped using Apple products years ago, precisely when they made the transition from good product, to overpriced luxury products.

I cant post link but you can check on youtube "Most POWERFUL Mini in the world right now" by Alex Ziskind. M2 Pro vs HX 370 and in many tests its a lot closer than you would expect.

Personally I tested M1 Pro  against my other laptop(Ryzen 5800h) on java project and it was noticeably faster too.                                                                                                                                               

Quote from: Mate on November 14, 2024, 01:37:05compilation of programs is A LOT faster than even Geekbench is telling us.

Source / evidence?

Its funny how people dont see that for quality you always pay a lot more than there is difference compared to 'normal quality'. You can drive Volsvagen Golf and it will in most cases be almost as good and comfortable(you are sitting after all, not forced to stand, right?) as Mercedes s400. Same is with phones.You can buy flagship phone or lets say Poco X6 Pro for 20% price. And in most situations there will be no difference.

Same is with your comparison. Sure Vivobook is almost as good, but there is noticeable difference in many aspects of laptop compared to Macbook.
1. We cant pick benchmarks like some people want. A lot smarted than us guys developed Cinebench R24 or Geekbench. And no, they were not paid by Apple. You may be surprised that in many use cases scenarios Apple chips have huge lead - for  example compilation of programs is A LOT faster than even Geekbench is telling us.
2. Its hard to notice ghosting on screen if you are not gaming. Sure, its not proper 120hz screen but its okey, notch is bigger problem.

Quote from: Batuhan on November 11, 2024, 14:45:55Where is hx 370 laptop for 700 dolar?
M4 pro  cpu is 50 percent faster single core 35 percent faster for multi core  .for 200 dolar you can get 14 core version and it is 50 percent faster
16core gpu is 60 percent faster 20 core gpu has double the performance of 890m .
İn gaming it is rtx 4050m and other stuff it is like rtx 4070 mobile
Basicaly same batery life
Hx 370 is m4 level cpu

It is not my fault if you can't see the reality:

Asus Vivobook S14 OLED (1400 Euro) vs MacBook Pro M4 (3989 Euro)

1.  Screen: Vivobook better, full Adobe color, faster response 1.3 msec vs 77 msec (you can't even move the mouse without ghosting, forget about playing games)!
2.  Mobility: Vivobook better, lighter, with longer battery times (16.5 hours vs 15.7 hours MacBook M4 Pro)
3.  Price: Vivobook Better 1400 Euro vs 3989 Euro = 2.9 times cheaper!!
4.  CPU performance: almost equal with the highest M4 Pro (14 core) (Cinebench R23 Vivobook 21058 vs M4 Pro 14 core 23433) M4 Pro 14 core only 11% faster, The smaller M4 Pro 12 ore is slower tha the Vivobook.
5.  GPU performance: Macbook faster but not so much as syntheic benchmarks show. AMD game drivers are much more mature and MacBook screen is terrible with ghosting at 80msec response. E.g. Cyberpunk 2077 hiest preset: MacBook 39 FPS vs Vivobook 29 FPS. Neither are good for gaming but ok for casual games.

Only a fanatic would not see that Vivobook is much better especially at 1/3 of the price!!!

When will you start posting tests of autonomy on YouTube so that every reader can see with their own eyes the real discharge of the battery in different loads?

Quote from: Batuhan on November 11, 2024, 14:45:55İn gaming it is rtx 4050m and other stuff it is like rtx 4070 mobile

3DMark Wild Life Extreme Unlimited measures 3D graphics and performs like 4070 Laptop.

Cinebench 2024 - GPU is said to be dubious; M4 Pro performs 21% slower.

For the other non-3D-gaming tests, there are no comparisons between M4 Pro and 4070 Laptop.

Therefore, there are only very few tests so far and it is a gross exaggeration to claim equal performance for [all] "other stuff"!

As has already been said, so far tests focus almost only on 3D gaming or Apple-exclusive benchmarks.

Quote from: Grateful on November 09, 2024, 13:58:45Love or hate apple, there is one thing you've got to admit.

This is going to absolutely make both strix point and Snapdragon x elite laptop prices tank. They can no longer continue to charge absurd $1600+ pricing after just seeing the performance per watt displayed here.

Especially the GPU, nothing comes close. RTX 4050 level dgpu performance but with igpu battery life is truly astounding! Why wait for just as expensive strix halo with similar level performance but with worse battery life when it's pretty much already here?

The only thing that still sucks is their GPU drivers. You can see in Cyberpunk benchmark @ ultra it gets decent FPS but when going to low there's barely any change in FPS. Should be much high there.

Hoping asahi linux with improved GPU driver support will fix these issues but that probably won't happen until years later as I don't believe they plan to support M4 anytime soon.

Yes drivers are issue but rap power is amazing. İt is at level of rtx 4070 is Most test. Native cyberpunk 2077 also coming. İt will be starting point of mac gaming

Quote from: Konstantinos on November 08, 2024, 21:51:42It'a funny that a laptop with 1/3 of the price is better than this Macbook Pro:

Asus-VivoBook-S-14-OLED Ryzen 9 HX-370

Better OLED screen with 100 Adobe color, fast responce times.

Better battery life with 16.5 hours web usage.

Similar CPU performance with the smaller M4 Pro 12 core.

Only GPU is slower, but if you care about games you wouldn't buy a Macbook anyway. Or you can get the Strix Halo in couple of months with better GPU.

Where is hx 370 laptop for 700 dolar?
M4 pro  cpu is 50 percent faster single core 35 percent faster for multi core  .for 200 dolar you can get 14 core version and it is 50 percent faster
16core gpu is 60 percent faster 20 core gpu has double the performance of 890m .
İn gaming it is rtx 4050m and other stuff it is like rtx 4070 mobile
Basicaly same batery life
Hx 370 is m4 level cpu .
 

Quote from: Toortle on November 09, 2024, 03:13:42

Quote from: Joe galamb on November 09, 2024, 00:18:36I had a 2024 Zephyrus G14 OLED at home next to my M1 Pro MacBook Pro 14 and I preferred the Mac's screen. Its colours are just more natural. And in HDR, it destroyed the Asus's OLED. The latter was not enough bright, was oversaturated, and its "perfect OLED blacks" were more like blue.

An actual comedian. OLED blacks are black - because those pixels are turned off completely.

Yeah, when Apple does OLED (e.g. on my iPad Pro), they are 100% black. But when some random Chinese manufacturer, you will face compromises. Like when there is some reflective layer behind the pixels which will shine blue... Excuse me that I believe my eyes and not some random smartass on the internet!

Quote from: Konstantinos on November 08, 2024, 21:51:42It'a funny that a laptop with 1/3 of the price is better than this Macbook Pro:

Asus-VivoBook-S-14-OLED Ryzen 9 HX-370

Better OLED screen with 100 Adobe color, fast responce times.

Better battery life with 16.5 hours web usage.

Similar CPU performance with the smaller M4 Pro 12 core.

Only GPU is slower, but if you care about games you wouldn't buy a Macbook anyway. Or you can get the Strix Halo in couple of months with better GPU.

Only GPU is slower :D :D :D my gosh. Asus Vivo basically doesn't have a GPU

Too expensive and lacks software support, like Steam.

Love or hate apple, there is one thing you've got to admit.

This is going to absolutely make both strix point and Snapdragon x elite laptop prices tank. They can no longer continue to charge absurd $1600+ pricing after just seeing the performance per watt displayed here.

Especially the GPU, nothing comes close. RTX 4050 level dgpu performance but with igpu battery life is truly astounding! Why wait for just as expensive strix halo with similar level performance but with worse battery life when it's pretty much already here?

The only thing that still sucks is their GPU drivers. You can see in Cyberpunk benchmark @ ultra it gets decent FPS but when going to low there's barely any change in FPS. Should be much high there.

Hoping asahi linux with improved GPU driver support will fix these issues but that probably won't happen until years later as I don't believe they plan to support M4 anytime soon.

Quote from: abpro on November 09, 2024, 08:04:48from performance perspective - it's a monster

As long as we do not compare to dGPU-heavy applications or presume a maximum power consumption.

Quoteit would be good if author applied all the same testing standard to apple product as well.

For one thing, yes, the individual tests made for some similar devices ought to be also made for Apple devices. For another thing, the problem lies deeper: NBCs overall test score system is, intentionally or accidentally, designed to let Apple often win. (E.g., one might severely downgrade computers with too bad display reaction times or too excessive upgrade pricing, and Apple would often end at the last places.)

Quoteto keep this review objective, the following things should be also listed in cons list

NBC has explained several times that the pro and con lists are subjectively selective by the reviewer. We need to read them in this perspective.

Quoteseems like notebookcheck reviews rating system is broken somehow... There is missing the most important factor - security.

Please elaborate what you want to see studied in a security section!