We have all seen this Team Blue dance before - this time it is just with ENERGY USED is all.

"up to %10-20" reduction in power needed. :(

It is the same generational 'song & dance' they've been singing for over a decade.

Quote from: Dan6 on October 09, 2024, 10:45:24

Quote from: Abram W. on October 09, 2024, 00:58:10

Quote from: Dan6 on October 08, 2024, 15:52:2980W may look significant, but comparing to total CPU power draw - it's just around 13% reduction.. For a desktop that consumes up to 1000W with 4090, it's almost nothing. And as pointed out below, you need to buy a new motherboard for it..

I have never seen a single YouTube tech reviewer have power draw reach anywhere near 1000 watts with a 4090/i9-14900K combo. That includes my big 3: Hardware Unboxed, Gamers Nexus, and Linus Tech Tips... I think you're over exaggerating on purpose which is harmful to those trying to learn about the PC gaming hardware space. Yes Intel and Nvidia are power hungry but no one has a rig using 1000 watts unless they have some weird daisy chain of GPUS or ASICs. 

Well, I said "up to". 1000W is the minimum PSU recommended for such systems. Would you agree that on average such system consumes around 700W during load (maybe typical system with 2 SSDs, couple of fans, RGB, water cooling)? So would you agree that 80W is still not a big deal for desktop systems with such high power consumption?

Without optimization 14900k/4090 while rendering and other tasks I can flutter around 880~950W system wattage.
Coming from a Threadripper 3rdgen 3990 + 4x3090 + 2xTB 2080ti's this seemed minimal.

All the channels you mentions focus on gaming and single core users (the main eyeballs and $$$).
It is somewhat a frustration the main narrative is focused around gamers/video people then extrapolated for workers. The vast majority of workers have no clue about PC's outside it lets them create. Even the sliver of knowledgeable tend to be on the spectrum or cultists that get stuck on numbers vs application of them.


Personally My main concern/annoyance was the heat produced by varying systems and the measures to maintain it.

With lower wattage and efficiency opens more doors to more practical situations when creating a workstation for a specific environment and task.

I personally don't have an issue optimizing a system. The power draw I stated, I rarely reach because I didn't make the system to do things that create that draw.

But, I don't think the average buyer understands how to do what I or enthusiasts can. Also, manufactures goal is never to develop secondary market tools that adequately address the ease aspect the vast working force long term.

It is why I feel Apple does so well now that they have better means to produce what they clearly attempted for a decades to achieve.

So yes lowering power draw, making things more efficient, means less tinkering, means less specialty items, means less heat, means less noise. Means more focus on work and goals and having a better system more tenable for more work environments.

Quote from: Abram W. on October 09, 2024, 00:58:10

Quote from: Dan6 on October 08, 2024, 15:52:2980W may look significant, but comparing to total CPU power draw - it's just around 13% reduction.. For a desktop that consumes up to 1000W with 4090, it's almost nothing. And as pointed out below, you need to buy a new motherboard for it..

I have never seen a single YouTube tech reviewer have power draw reach anywhere near 1000 watts with a 4090/i9-14900K combo. That includes my big 3: Hardware Unboxed, Gamers Nexus, and Linus Tech Tips... I think you're over exaggerating on purpose which is harmful to those trying to learn about the PC gaming hardware space. Yes Intel and Nvidia are power hungry but no one has a rig using 1000 watts unless they have some weird daisy chain of GPUS or ASICs. 

Well, I said "up to". 1000W is the minimum PSU recommended for such systems. Would you agree that on average such system consumes around 700W during load (maybe typical system with 2 SSDs, couple of fans, RGB, water cooling)? So would you agree that 80W is still not a big deal for desktop systems with such high power consumption?

Quote from: Dan6 on October 08, 2024, 15:52:2980W may look significant, but comparing to total CPU power draw - it's just around 13% reduction.. For a desktop that consumes up to 1000W with 4090, it's almost nothing. And as pointed out below, you need to buy a new motherboard for it..

I have never seen a single YouTube tech reviewer have power draw reach anywhere near 1000 watts with a 4090/i9-14900K combo. That includes my big 3: Hardware Unboxed, Gamers Nexus, and Linus Tech Tips... I think you're over exaggerating on purpose which is harmful to those trying to learn about the PC gaming hardware space. Yes Intel and Nvidia are power hungry but no one has a rig using 1000 watts unless they have some weird daisy chain of GPUS or ASICs. 

I think having the same performance as 13th/14th gen is completely fine- the important part is improved power efficiency. VASTLY improved power efficiency. And 80W just isn't it. I sincerely hope the lower end SKUs perform better in that regard, Intel REALLY can't afford to screw arrow lake up.

Whilst I always wait for final released specs, if these leaks are close to the market, then it suggests that in switching to new architectures, both AMD and Intel have concentrated on power efficiency over raw performance.

Whether this is a technical consequence of the new nodes using even smaller components, or just being conservative until they have more experience with silicon at that transistor size, is difficult to say.

But given the recently exposed problems Intel 13th and 14th Gen parts have had with excessive power demands/push damaging the chips, it's heartening to note the reduced power draw of the new parts.

With the rumours of AMD preparing to launch X3D cache CPUs, the next 6-12 months should be interesting.

80W may look significant, but comparing to total CPU power draw - it's just around 13% reduction.. For a desktop that consumes up to 1000W with 4090, it's almost nothing. And as pointed out below, you need to buy a new motherboard for it..

Intel's new chip is STILL BORN.
Besides Intel's poor performance, one of the problems that everyone complains about is that the Intel platform only has 2 years of updates and AMD with AM5 has 7 years of updates, that's why this ArrowLake that is being launched now only has 10 months and therefore you have to change the motherboard, RAM, power supply, etc... for PanterLake. Nobody is willing to make that outlay, it's common sense.
According to what I read on international forums, people are waiting for AMD ZEN 5 9000x3D