Quote from: GeorgeS on August 12, 2024, 17:34:47outside of having to REPAIR the car an EV has less $$ on 'consumables' as there are no oil, spark plugs & air filters to replace.

There is always a ghost of battery replacement, that will cover oil and air filters by a huge margin. If you do a youtube search you will find out a lot of teslas that get battery issues even by driving over a stick, with dealership putting out a 10-20-30K repair bill.

Ok, I'll bite...

- outside of having to REPAIR the car an EV has less $$ on 'consumables' as there are no oil, spark plugs & air filters to replace.

- however, if having to REPAIR the EV you might as well have an <insert exotic car here> as spare parts are rare and very expensive to come by.

The second point is one of the main reasons Hertz is liquidating their Tesla fleet. Even minor repairs are nary impossible without long delays if and when parts are available.

Quote from: A on August 10, 2024, 01:57:25After 10-15 years, even an engine replacement in an ICE car would cost more than the car.

There's no need to replace engine in 10-15 years in a normal household use.

Quote from: A on August 10, 2024, 01:57:25refill the coolant when it is low

Have you really owned a car.

Looks like the oil company shills are in full force here.

@A: Why do I always see you comment on the pro's of EV ownership but never the downsides?

It makes you seem like a Tesla shareholder.

You never comment on:

1) How the ride quality on most EV's is terrible due to being much heavier cars (because of the bigger batteries)? Not exactly sure why as I'm no mechanic but I think it's something to do with the tuning and in general might be possibly harder to do softer suspension on heavy cars (not impossible can drive up the price further).

2) The rear seat floor is raised higher, this makes sitting in the rear seats somewhat uncomfortable during longer journeys because of the angle your knees are positioned / raised to. Again, not exactly sure why as I'm not car expert but think this is due to making space for battery / drivetrain differences between EV and ICE which result in less interior cabin room (and possibly boot space too).

3) Fast depreciating value. This doesn't just affect those who like to change and sell their vehicles every 6 months but also those who are involved in accidents. Not sure how car insurance works globally but where I'm at if your car gets totalled / written off, insurance companies give you the general market value of the car on the used market right just before the accident happened. In my case my EV, which I bought less than a year ago (£11,500) is now worth almost half (£8,500). So that's the compensation I got. Granted all old cars lose value but some (i.e. EVs) much faster than others.

There are more problems and I could go on and list but I found these to be the biggest offenders that affect nearly every type of EV. Not exactly related to the topic but felt compelled to comment anyway as to give a more balanced view when I see so much one sided biasness going around and people really should be made aware. Coming from someone who owned a EV for 1 year until very recently due being involved in a crash and was forced to switch back to an ICE vehicle. (Which kinda sucks I might add, as I already had paid to install charging EV equipment on my property which is now pretty much a waste)

Quote from: A on August 10, 2024, 01:57:25The difference is, Hertz doesn't really stock powerful performance cars with exception of Tesla.

This isn't true.

QuoteEven more so since many people are not used to EVs, many people try to test their limits on a rental before deciding to buy or not. Something you can't really do on a test drive, but rental is easiest and cheapest way to test the limits. And as you can guess, that ends poorly. Even more so since many people don't even know how to properly take care of an EV when they are not the owner.

The issue with this is people that rent cars must have them looked over for even minor damage at the end of the rental period.  You screw up a rental car, you're paying, (or your insurance is.)  This doesn't really vary between ICE versus EV.

QuoteLike imagine doing things like driving your ICE car before you preheat, not refill the coolant when it is low and etc.

EVs don't have this kind of maintenance.  Tires, wipers, wiper fluid.  Very minor stuff compared to ICE.  If anything, the maintenance costs should statistically be lower, assuming everything else is equal.

QuoteAnd consumer reports has been harsh on Tesla plenty of times, so I doubt they are playing favorites. Though due to it being an EV with an 8-10 year drivetrain warranty, it is likely more stuff just end up being free. In comparison, if your ICE car engine happens to fail in 5 years, you are out of luck

They take their data from their readers, who voluntarily submit opinions and perspectives.  The issue with this is numerous biases, that I won't get into.  If you pay a lot for something, you are far more likely to rave about it versus people that pay less for the same item.  This is a known psychological bias.  COnsumer Reports isn't necessarily stretching the truth or showing bias, but they just don't have actual access to cars to see the real data.  Hertz, by all intents and purposes:does.  They pay with their bottom dollar.  If Tesla was making them money, they wouldn't be selling them after just a year in use.  The reality is: they are.  You can go on the Hertz Rental used car site and find lots of 2023 models.

Quote from: qwert on August 09, 2024, 15:42:37Ah so they've ASKED.
As in that story, "average dick length of tesla owners was deemed to be 40cm in a series of interviews and 14cm in a series of actual measurements."
Numbers are a total joke, Tesla has just a handful of models while other producers have tens of them, all with different durability -and service costs-. Also table ends at 10 years age because about 10-15 is when Tesla drops a $20 (plus) thousand battery replacement and negates all the "savings".

After 10-15 years, even an engine replacement in an ICE car would cost more than the car. So there is no reason to care about "savings" past 10-15 years if a major issue happens

Quote from: indy on August 09, 2024, 20:53:45This contradicts Hertz real-world experience with Tesla cars with reliability and/or service costs. It's also understandable that people might be harder on a rental than their main-driver, but Hertz rents scores of vehicle types, and as far as I know, Tesla is the only one they are reversing course on.

I've had some issues with consumer reports in the past... Not exactly sure I trust their methodology.

The difference is, Hertz doesn't really stock powerful performance cars with exception of Tesla. Even more so since many people are not used to EVs, many people try to test their limits on a rental before deciding to buy or not. Something you can't really do on a test drive, but rental is easiest and cheapest way to test the limits. And as you can guess, that ends poorly. Even more so since many people don't even know how to properly take care of an EV when they are not the owner.

Like imagine doing things like driving your ICE car before you preheat, not refill the coolant when it is low and etc.

And consumer reports has been harsh on Tesla plenty of times, so I doubt they are playing favorites. Though due to it being an EV with an 8-10 year drivetrain warranty, it is likely more stuff just end up being free. In comparison, if your ICE car engine happens to fail in 5 years, you are out of luck

Important Wider Context: EVs have the highest repair cost of any major automobile type on Earth. For instance, it can cost $18,000 USD to replace a Tesla's battery after a single accident. The high repair costs extend to multiple parts of EVs, including $4,200 to repair a Rivian bumper.

Given the recent news regarding Hertz having to remove all EVs from their fleet due to high EV upkeep costs, it is unclear why the writer did not mention this important fact in the original article, and seems to indicate bias from the author.

Sources:
-JDPower: How Often Do Tesla Batteries Need To Be Replaced?
Matt Yantakosol | Jun 21, 2024
-Harry's Auto Collision: Guide To Rivian Body Repair Costs
Collision Repair. June 20, 2024
-Reddit: What is the actual cost of replacing a 2018 Model 3 battery? | November 25, 2023

This contradicts Hertz real-world experience with Tesla cars with reliability and/or service costs. It's also understandable that people might be harder on a rental than their main-driver, but Hertz rents scores of vehicle types, and as far as I know, Tesla is the only one they are reversing course on.

I've had some issues with consumer reports in the past... Not exactly sure I trust their methodology.

Ah so they've ASKED.
As in that story, "average dick length of tesla owners was deemed to be 40cm in a series of interviews and 14cm in a series of actual measurements."
Numbers are a total joke, Tesla has just a handful of models while other producers have tens of them, all with different durability -and service costs-. Also table ends at 10 years age because about 10-15 is when Tesla drops a $20 (plus) thousand battery replacement and negates all the "savings".