Only custom built desktop is left where we can add RAM or any other component as per our requirement.

Almost all of the manufacturers are going the route of everything soldered for better or worse. And those who are not doing it now will do it later.

Soldered RAM does bring benefit but it is expensive in the long run in case if one wanted to increase RAM for new requirements.

Personally I have built a desktop and every components are of my choice and since it is a desktop so no need to worry about thermal headroom, battery, upgrade ability etc.

Using the iPad Pro for portability (accessing the windows desktop via remote desktop).

But this workflow is not for everyone. So plan out accordingly and don't hope for the manufacturers to listen customers need. They will pump out products whether anyone likes it or not. Find out what works for you in a given time period and implement otherwise move on. Don't wait.

I just noticed something (me and a friend are checking out why there are no 370 handhelds yet and if the 370 represents the high tdp model. From what I can see 15w=50% of 80w performance, which would suggest this is optimal at low limits.)

According to this according to the graphs the 370 gets 20 points per watt vs M3 28 and MP pro omitted for some reason, but according to the TDP range testing, it can achieve 621pnts in CB24 at 15w vs M3 601 points at 20w, which would mean it runs more efficient in multi core than even the M3, but does the tuning utility cap the the PL to 15w or does it allow for variation?

When doing efficiency tests, you should use efficient examples of the respective chips.

Comparing Shenker XMG is a bizarre choice. The hp probook with 7840hs can match m3 pro in cinebench efficiency test, but the results for 7840hs on this site are an aggregate including mini pcs... same goes for 8000 series, but the options aren't as good.

But you used an optimal laptop choice for meteor lake...

Atleast on a test like this use the right kind of laptops man...

Otherwise, interesting article, can't wait to see halo convertible options, but I'd love that proart foldy. (>Digital painter man)

Quote from: Dan6 on August 05, 2024, 17:40:27I don't want Surface with soldered ram, I want Surface with swappable ram

Lol
So soldered ram is "bad" just because he can't cheap out on hardware anymore and keeps ignoring the fact xiaomi has cheap soldered ram, because he wants surface he can't afford.

Quote from: George on July 31, 2024, 15:07:01

Quote from: Dan6 on July 31, 2024, 14:58:31I want Surface and it's not even available in my region with 32gigs.. so what? I should fly to US because I want good laptop with 32gigs?

He didn't tell you anything about "max ram", he has told you "today's default value is 16-32" and you want surface with soldered ram! 32!! so why did you even write your message. Some kind of a weird way of confirming your opponent was right.

Why, no, I don't want Surface with soldered ram, I want Surface with swappable ram! Read through entire thread.. It wasn't reply to his first statement.. I probably had to cut the quotes to avoid misunderstanding. I replied specifically to this statement:
"Pick a laptop that doesn't require 700eur for 32gb, there's lots for every budget today, get xiaomi if you don't have money for apple or surface."

And my point is that swappable ram is good, because I could just buy 16 gigs surface (or any other laptop I like) and upgrade ram to any amount I need and do not limit my search by ram. Guys, swappable ram isn't about "saving money" as Apple taught you..

And yeah, it's just an example of why swappable ram is good from my previous experience. I have no intention to buy any laptop now.

Quote from: GeorgeS on July 31, 2024, 21:38:48While I'd agree that ALL OEM's place a premium on RAM

People here referred many times to Xiaomi with cheap soldered ram yet everyone has a blind spot for it and focuses on Apple and Microsoft for absolutely no reason.

sigh

I'm sorry but it would appear that many of you live in a FAR DIFFERENT world/reality than I do as for +40yrs each and every company I ever worked for PROVIDED any and all tools & equipment needed (IE: read COMPUTERS) to do whatever job they were asking & paying me for.

Personally the countless desktops and laptops I've owned I've NEVER had a RAM module fail. While I'd agree that ALL OEM's place a premium on RAM & storage (some more than others) shoppers can save sizeable amounts of $$ if they can do upgrades themselves.

With the above said even 8GB/128GB is plenty for the majority of people. As an example at a company that employs >100K <%10 need 32GB and <%2 need >=64GB to do their jobs. :)

Minisforum bots are worse than t-shirt bots on X

I'm seeing comments about the 16GB Surface and its high price of $2,000, well if you look you have better alternatives with the MINISFORUM V3, watch it on YouTube and you'll see the difference and you'll only spend $1,200. The difference is huge not only in price but also in performance and in the iGPU where RDNA 3 is superior to Intel Iris Xe.

Quote from: Dan6 on July 31, 2024, 14:58:31I want Surface and it's not even available in my region with 32gigs.. so what? I should fly to US because I want good laptop with 32gigs?

He didn't tell you anything about "max ram", he has told you "today's default value is 16-32" and you want surface with soldered ram! 32!! so why did you even write your message. Some kind of a weird way of confirming your opponent was right.

Quote from: vladteapa on July 31, 2024, 14:04:2416GB on Windows machines with integrated graphics, is bad for anything above light office work and browsing the web. I'm using 2 laptops, one with 16GB and one with 32GB, and it's a very different experience when I go beyond light office work and browsing.

I kinda have to agree now you guys are clueless.

Quote from: batury on July 31, 2024, 10:55:12

Quote from: Dan6 on July 31, 2024, 10:39:041) It's not flexible, you have to estimate today how much ram you'll need in next 2+ years. But today you only use browser on your laptop and even 16gigs is enough, so why pay additional 500 eur for a 32 gigs model? But in 6 month you decide, let's say, to run some LLM locally and you can't because of ram limitation. And you can't upgrade it, so you go and buy new laptop..

Expectation - today you are only using a browser and tomorrow you are a top coder running 10 docker containers and LLM and 2 VMs.
Reality - you always can estimate how much ram you need and/or if you are stupid just ask online or go with today's "default value" 16-32.

Quote from: Dan6 on July 31, 2024, 10:39:04It's cheaper to buy 8gigs laptop and then upgrade it with 32gigs when needed for like 150eur instead of overpaying 700 eur initially for a 32gig model.

Pick a laptop that doesn't require 700eur for 32gb, there's lots for every budget today, get xiaomi if you don't have money for apple or surface.

Quote from: Dan6 on July 31, 2024, 10:39:04if ram goes faulty - you have to buy a new laptop instead of just replacing the ram

These stories about "faulty ram" happen maybe in 5 laptops out of 10 thousands, and it's usually some chinese noname ram user bought to save money or something badly overclocked.

Quote from: Worgarthe on July 31, 2024, 10:48:05Steve1, is it cheaper to buy the lowest possible config

As i've said, get a xiaomi, their base 32G config is dirt cheap.

Quote from: Worgarthe on July 31, 2024, 10:48:05skipped this one because there is some current promo ongoing

Very convenient skip, so why not get a promo lol, just because it doesn't fit into your "theory"? There's also a ton of apple refurbs.
Play with the money you have, there are always options. I don't accept "i want to save" argument as valid.

Nah, you don't even try to understand. Not always life is so predictable to estimate. I never had carrier changes or any courses taken? So your approach is to buy max ram all the time.. And no, I don't want some cheap laptop, I want Surface and it's not even available in my region with 32gigs.. so what? I should fly to US because I want good laptop with 32gigs?

Soldered RAM is bad and has been bad from the beginning. There's always a ridiculous premium markup going for the next tier and it's a recipe for more e-waste.

16GB on Windows machines with integrated graphics, is bad for anything above light office work and browsing the web. I'm using 2 laptops, one with 16GB and one with 32GB, and it's a very different experience when I go beyond light office work and browsing.

Am I late to the party?
Gang is so eager to play "Apple card" while they can buy "Xiaomi RedmiBook something 2024 meteor lake 32G/1Tb" for 900 eur if they want cheap soldered ram and don't understand and/or like Apple prices. I laughed so hard when that guy said he would replace mac book pro m3max with a "desktop and M3 Air 16 GB". Everything you have to know about "soldered ram is bad" gang - they are generally clueless and have only two tricks, "cheaper cheaper" and "upgrade upgrade", both of which are just LOL for anyone with more than 5 active brain cells.

So just to explain again, this dude picked
MBP M3 8Gb for 1600 usd
compared it to top of the line unbinned
MBP M3 Max 40 core 64 Gb for 3900 usd
and claimed the difference 2400 usd is for ram. )))

And these guys tell you how to save money with a serious face.

Quote from: Worgarthe on July 31, 2024, 11:08:57I'm well-aware that thinking is too difficult these days

Says the person who couldn't even notice he switched from M3Pro to M3Max while making his "table" and thus completely invalidated his opinion in a blink.
I agree, thinking is difficult.

Quote from: Worgarthe on July 31, 2024, 11:08:57you see perfect sense to pay 2500€ for 64 GB

Are you double downing on that stupidity or you still don't understand it's mostly price for (much) better CPU. There's no 14 M3Pro with more than 36Gb ram.