Quote from: Phil_Fr on July 24, 2024, 18:29:48

Quote from: A on July 24, 2024, 05:10:57

Quote from: dnfgn on July 24, 2024, 02:01:49He wasn't a samurai and is just a cherry-picked DEI token.

He was definitely a real samurai. To quote a Japanese historian:

"なんか、織田信長に仕えた黒人の弥助の話題になっているみたい。彼に関する史料はかなり乏しいが、信長に仕える「侍」身分であったことはまちがいなかろう。出身の身分がどうであれ、主人が「侍」分に取り立てれば、そうなれたのが中世（戦国）社会。なんでそんなことが言えるかといえば、①信長より「扶持」を与えられている、②屋敷を与えられている、③太刀を与えられている、と史料に登場するから。「扶持」を与えられ、信長に近侍しているということは「主従の契約」「扶持の約諾」という重要な用件を満たしている。また、太刀を許されているので、二刀指であり、下人などではない（下人には刀指が認められていない）ことも重要。ましてや、屋敷拝領ならば、疑問の余地はない。宣教師の奴隷を、信長が譲り受けたところまでは、奴隷だったのだろうが、上記の①～③により、彼の意思によって「侍」分になったのだろう。本能寺の変時に、明智方が「動物」「日本人に非ず」などとして殺害しなかったというのは、それは明智が弥助を「侍」と認定しなかった（差別意識があったのだろう）だけにすぎない。身分が低い者を、主人が「侍」に取り立てることは、当時としては当たり前であった。そもそも、秀吉って立派な事例があるじゃんね"

Google translate: "It seems like there's a lot of talk about Yasuke, a black man who served Oda Nobunaga. Historical documents about him are quite scarce, but there's no doubt that he was a "samurai" serving Nobunaga. Regardless of one's social status, if one's master promoted one to the rank of "samurai," one could become one in medieval (warring states) society. The reason why we can say this is because the historical documents state that 1) Nobunaga gave him a "stipend," 2) he was given a mansion, and 3) he was given a sword. Being given a "stipend" and serving closely with Nobunaga fulfills the important conditions of a "contract between master and servant" and "agreement to receive a stipend." It is also important that he was allowed to carry a sword, so he was a two-sworded servant and not a servant (servants were not allowed to carry swords). Furthermore, if he received a mansion, there is no room for doubt. He was probably a slave until Nobunaga took over the missionary slave, but due to the above 1-3, he probably became a "samurai" of his own volition. During the Honnoji Incident, Akechi's side did not kill Yasuke because he was an "animal" or "not Japanese", but that was only because Akechi did not recognize Yasuke as a "samurai" (probably because he had discriminatory feelings). At that time, it was common for a master to promote someone of low status to a "samurai". To begin with, there is a good example in Hideyoshi."

HE WAS NOT. This tweet was debunked. The guy is a friend / business partner of the original fake historian who pushed a narrative.
Check official Japanese government stance on this.
Wiki is not the answer with too many paid progressist left actors.

That's much worse then. Fake history made to support inaccurately woke game.

Quote from: A on July 24, 2024, 05:10:57

Quote from: dnfgn on July 24, 2024, 02:01:49He wasn't a samurai and is just a cherry-picked DEI token.

He was definitely a real samurai. To quote a Japanese historian:

"なんか、織田信長に仕えた黒人の弥助の話題になっているみたい。彼に関する史料はかなり乏しいが、信長に仕える「侍」身分であったことはまちがいなかろう。出身の身分がどうであれ、主人が「侍」分に取り立てれば、そうなれたのが中世（戦国）社会。なんでそんなことが言えるかといえば、①信長より「扶持」を与えられている、②屋敷を与えられている、③太刀を与えられている、と史料に登場するから。「扶持」を与えられ、信長に近侍しているということは「主従の契約」「扶持の約諾」という重要な用件を満たしている。また、太刀を許されているので、二刀指であり、下人などではない（下人には刀指が認められていない）ことも重要。ましてや、屋敷拝領ならば、疑問の余地はない。宣教師の奴隷を、信長が譲り受けたところまでは、奴隷だったのだろうが、上記の①～③により、彼の意思によって「侍」分になったのだろう。本能寺の変時に、明智方が「動物」「日本人に非ず」などとして殺害しなかったというのは、それは明智が弥助を「侍」と認定しなかった（差別意識があったのだろう）だけにすぎない。身分が低い者を、主人が「侍」に取り立てることは、当時としては当たり前であった。そもそも、秀吉って立派な事例があるじゃんね"

Google translate: "It seems like there's a lot of talk about Yasuke, a black man who served Oda Nobunaga. Historical documents about him are quite scarce, but there's no doubt that he was a "samurai" serving Nobunaga. Regardless of one's social status, if one's master promoted one to the rank of "samurai," one could become one in medieval (warring states) society. The reason why we can say this is because the historical documents state that 1) Nobunaga gave him a "stipend," 2) he was given a mansion, and 3) he was given a sword. Being given a "stipend" and serving closely with Nobunaga fulfills the important conditions of a "contract between master and servant" and "agreement to receive a stipend." It is also important that he was allowed to carry a sword, so he was a two-sworded servant and not a servant (servants were not allowed to carry swords). Furthermore, if he received a mansion, there is no room for doubt. He was probably a slave until Nobunaga took over the missionary slave, but due to the above 1-3, he probably became a "samurai" of his own volition. During the Honnoji Incident, Akechi's side did not kill Yasuke because he was an "animal" or "not Japanese", but that was only because Akechi did not recognize Yasuke as a "samurai" (probably because he had discriminatory feelings). At that time, it was common for a master to promote someone of low status to a "samurai". To begin with, there is a good example in Hideyoshi."

HE WAS NOT. This tweet was debunked. The guy is a friend / business partner of the original fake historian who pushed a narrative.
Check official Japanese government stance on this.
Wiki is not the answer with too many paid progressist left actors.

Why are you saying they "apologised"? They did not, and have no reason to do so. If anything, this is a rebuttal: a doubling-down.

This is extremely bad journalism, when you can't even correctly interpret a tweet.

The article is well written, I look forward to your continued sharing.
kadashika

Quote from: dnfgn on July 24, 2024, 02:01:49He wasn't a samurai and is just a cherry-picked DEI token.

He was definitely a real samurai. To quote a Japanese historian:

"なんか、織田信長に仕えた黒人の弥助の話題になっているみたい。彼に関する史料はかなり乏しいが、信長に仕える「侍」身分であったことはまちがいなかろう。出身の身分がどうであれ、主人が「侍」分に取り立てれば、そうなれたのが中世（戦国）社会。なんでそんなことが言えるかといえば、①信長より「扶持」を与えられている、②屋敷を与えられている、③太刀を与えられている、と史料に登場するから。「扶持」を与えられ、信長に近侍しているということは「主従の契約」「扶持の約諾」という重要な用件を満たしている。また、太刀を許されているので、二刀指であり、下人などではない（下人には刀指が認められていない）ことも重要。ましてや、屋敷拝領ならば、疑問の余地はない。宣教師の奴隷を、信長が譲り受けたところまでは、奴隷だったのだろうが、上記の①～③により、彼の意思によって「侍」分になったのだろう。本能寺の変時に、明智方が「動物」「日本人に非ず」などとして殺害しなかったというのは、それは明智が弥助を「侍」と認定しなかった（差別意識があったのだろう）だけにすぎない。身分が低い者を、主人が「侍」に取り立てることは、当時としては当たり前であった。そもそも、秀吉って立派な事例があるじゃんね"

Google translate: "It seems like there's a lot of talk about Yasuke, a black man who served Oda Nobunaga. Historical documents about him are quite scarce, but there's no doubt that he was a "samurai" serving Nobunaga. Regardless of one's social status, if one's master promoted one to the rank of "samurai," one could become one in medieval (warring states) society. The reason why we can say this is because the historical documents state that 1) Nobunaga gave him a "stipend," 2) he was given a mansion, and 3) he was given a sword. Being given a "stipend" and serving closely with Nobunaga fulfills the important conditions of a "contract between master and servant" and "agreement to receive a stipend." It is also important that he was allowed to carry a sword, so he was a two-sworded servant and not a servant (servants were not allowed to carry swords). Furthermore, if he received a mansion, there is no room for doubt. He was probably a slave until Nobunaga took over the missionary slave, but due to the above 1-3, he probably became a "samurai" of his own volition. During the Honnoji Incident, Akechi's side did not kill Yasuke because he was an "animal" or "not Japanese", but that was only because Akechi did not recognize Yasuke as a "samurai" (probably because he had discriminatory feelings). At that time, it was common for a master to promote someone of low status to a "samurai". To begin with, there is a good example in Hideyoshi."

Quote from: A on July 23, 2024, 21:55:15

Quote from: Netb on July 23, 2024, 18:27:08What a dumb game. What happened to Ubisoft? Black samurai in ancient Japan, sure, like teriyaki chicken in African tribes pre-modernity. Unbelivable. Who is the game even made for? Black people? Cuz Asians aren't convinced of the merit of the game.

Yasuke did actually exist in history and served Nobunaga, look it up. He was brought in by an Italian missionary and Nobunaga couldn't believe he was born black and went as far as had him remove his clothes and washing him to get the "ink off". Afterwards, he asked the Italian missionary to hand him over and made him his retainer

The biggest complaints is that they messed up a lot of the Asian culture in the game, plus architecture is incorrect among other things

He wasn't a samurai and is just a cherry-picked DEI token.

Quote from: A on July 23, 2024, 21:55:15

Quote from: Netb on July 23, 2024, 18:27:08What a dumb game. What happened to Ubisoft? Black samurai in ancient Japan, sure, like teriyaki chicken in African tribes pre-modernity. Unbelivable. Who is the game even made for? Black people? Cuz Asians aren't convinced of the merit of the game.

Yasuke did actually exist in history and served Nobunaga, look it up. He was brought in by an Italian missionary and Nobunaga couldn't believe he was born black and went as far as had him remove his clothes and washing him to get the "ink off". Afterwards, he asked the Italian missionary to hand him over and made him his retainer

The biggest complaints is that they messed up a lot of the Asian culture in the game, plus architecture is incorrect among other things

Somehow, they managed to get an obscure piece of detail correct and messed up the bulk. It shows where Ubisoft's focus is.

Quote from: Netb on July 23, 2024, 18:27:08What a dumb game. What happened to Ubisoft? Black samurai in ancient Japan, sure, like teriyaki chicken in African tribes pre-modernity. Unbelivable. Who is the game even made for? Black people? Cuz Asians aren't convinced of the merit of the game.

Yasuke did actually exist in history and served Nobunaga, look it up. He was brought in by an Italian missionary and Nobunaga couldn't believe he was born black and went as far as had him remove his clothes and washing him to get the "ink off". Afterwards, he asked the Italian missionary to hand him over and made him his retainer

The biggest complaints is that they messed up a lot of the Asian culture in the game, plus architecture is incorrect among other things

What a dumb game. What happened to Ubisoft? Black samurai in ancient Japan, sure, like teriyaki chicken in African tribes pre-modernity. Unbelivable. Who is the game even made for? Black people? Cuz Asians aren't convinced of the merit of the game.

Hi, French here. Disrespect the Japanese lore with woke "historian" pushing a narrative to sell his books. Doubt he was a Samurai but more a retainer/slave/novelty. Yasuke will have a "gay' route possible too in this AC game. The stereotype hip hop song for the trailer/gameplay... Not asking Japanese gov for actual Flag, Icons, location rights.
Let's not forget the price ! Same s*** as Star Wars Outlaw too from Ubisoft.
Ghost of Tsushima ftw

This will definitely bite Ubisoft in the a** + they haven't made a decent AC game since Odessey.
I really don't care about anything Ubisoft as they have declining in quality for years

The fact that they chose not to USE Oda Nobunaga as a playable character and went for the black guy route shows how much Ubisoft cares.

Hope this game bombs hard. Maybe then, they will fire all those woman they hired a while ago for their "equality" quota.

Not Japanese here, but would not touch any woke games at all. I did find descriptions of this game offensive to Asians because so much is portrayed wrong.

They will not change, they will be even more woke with this game like disney with their movies/shows.