Naturally, the banking mafia attaches itself to this topic with loans on the side of the law, but in reality it is these scoundrels who are in collusion with false institutions of a non-competitive and non-productive (for civilization in general, or even worse - education specially tailored for the formation of parasitic survival skills (and castes of such people), which has long been placed on a pedestal as a "correct" education), education has created a system that has led to a layer of poorly educated (low-value) graduates with non-repayable (at their own wild rates) loans, and the banksters have the least responsibility in the built system, i.e. .To. all systemically important banks have access to a "printing press" and can easily generate credit money, receiving fiat currency at minimum rates from the Central Bank (whose beneficiaries also share).

One has only to completely block this vicious system of creating a false money supply (not covered by the results of labor) from the Central Bank to the systemically important banks, as the issuance of student loans (and mortgages to weak groups of borrowers) and, even more so, the even more depraved model of consumer loans will immediately collapse significantly, by order. Because Banksters will have to carefully weigh each potential borrower. Now these scoundrels know for sure that they will be protected from the wrath of depositors (their creditors) when cash gaps appear due to the issuance of risky loans by the state-mafia, and the Central Bank-mafia, i.e. representatives of precisely kleptokartic circles.

If banks have only money clearly tied to the commodity (and productive services) content of the real economy and the savings of the productive layer of the population and there will be no lifeline from criminal corrupt officials, politicians and the Central Bank mafia, they will be in the event of cash gaps due to credit losses either they will imprison you or literally hang you. And these creatures understand this well, how the thoughtless issuance of unsecured loans will end for them if no one saves them, including their skins.

This system of lending interest on fiat money is criminal from the very beginning if cash gaps due to the fault of banksters are covered by the money of productive taxpayers or they simply print the money supply for the purpose of evading direct responsibility for what they did in the past.

The solution here is clear and simple - do not even allow system-forming banks to get away with it. But it is precisely this decision that criminal populist politicians, criminal corrupt officials and bankers, as well as the beneficiaries of "system-forming" zombie corporations (with a real negative flow) are hindering as much as possible. And they will do anything that no one could cut the branch on which they sit and thanks to which they live comfortably at the expense of others, without bearing any real cruel responsibility.

It is these creatures, sensing the smell of something fried under their own asses, who quickly divert (channel) the anger of the crowd away from themselves.

This is exactly what Putin did. That's what Biden is doing. Naturally, this is a generalized image of those who stand behind them. And all populist politicians or obvious representatives of some kleptocratic caste systematically do the same thing. Putin was a representative of the KGB, which really entangled all of Russia like an octopus for 90 years. Biden, at the moment, is a representative of the kleptocratic caste in the United States, the very "uniparty". Because of his mental problems (Putin already has them in all their glory), his puppeteers have to increasingly correct public flaws, thereby more and more clearly showing to adequate people who and how really controls these puppets, who pulls the strings behind the scenes.

Human civilization since the end of 2019 is clearly in an artificially initiated transformation into a concentration camp totalitarian regime of control in the vast majority of countries (which has nothing to do with a single civilly responsible government and the institutions of its civil control with the complete erasure of rudimentary state borders), where civil institutions of control are weak or weakened presumptuous politicians and officials of all stripes. So far they have managed to keep the colossus of the human community from complete collapse (not because they are smart, rather they think that they are smart, but in reality they are idiots playing with a grenade), only thanks to a certain reserve of "survivability" in the global system and the still sufficient autonomy of each of them its plots. But when the system hits somewhere the last (critical) element of "survivability", everything will be over, a real uncontrollable collapse will begin, which no one will be able to stop.
Perhaps for some reason these kleptocratic circles believe that they and their descendants will be able to build some kind of working model of concentration camps/zones for the majority of the population and special "oases" for themselves. At the same time, they (already partly globally united kleptocratic circles of all countries) undoubtedly understand that the unproductive (albeit often well-educated, but not for creation, but for the ability to take away/redistribute the results of the labor of others, the productive stratum, in their favor) overhang of the population ( even though it is the main soil and electoral base for the emergence of criminal populist politicians and the possibility of prosperity for these same kleptocratic circles) will have to be somehow reduced significantly, and since in this case, the electoral base is lost, it will be obvious to do away with the remnants of "democracies" in all countries (one cannot allow that somewhere there is an excellent pattern of governance or behavior, mentality, civil liberties and rights), because otherwise, with a sharp drop in unproductive part of the population (especially urban) in comparison with the productive (which is no more than 25-30% left on the planet), they will undoubtedly begin to lose all elections under "democracy", i.e. will lose power and influence in society.
Consequently, concentration camp regimes, social ratings, etc. the mechanisms of explicit control, on the basis of which rights and freedoms are formed, according to patterns convenient for the ruling kleptocrats, will only strengthen, and all remnants of "democratic" institutions, and especially civil institutions, control of the ruling layers will be suppressed and destroyed in every possible way.

This can only be resisted by the productive layer of the population, which creates the results of labor useful for the development of civilization and which (the results of labor) are for the most part taken away from them (the productive layer) more and more, in their favor, by kleptocrats of all stripes and that unproductive stratum of the population that today in "developed" countries and those close to them clearly exceeded half of the population or more, which is the electoral base of populists and kleptocrats, because they feed them through the redistribution of the results of labor productively through unfair taxation and various other forms, supposedly to eliminate social stratification. But at the same time, this unproductive stratum (which is supposedly being helped to get out of the vicious circle of lumpenization) for some reason only grows and grows in all countries, which proves only one thing - this stratum in the transition period to a completely concentration camp totalitarian government is a convenient and necessary accomplice of populist politicians , representatives of kleptocratic circles. This vicious circle can only be broken by force, stopping the unjust flow of redistribution without any responsibility. Just like now with student loan forgiveness, people have to take responsibility for the choices they make. By them or their parents. If there is no responsibility, it instantly corrupts or allows one to shift personal responsibility from one (the real guilty) social group to others.
You cannot take out loans for a good life and education without paying your bills. Or think about why the system is designed in such a way that you, in principle, cannot get out of poverty, even if you make an effort. It's the same with education - if you choose the easiest path - you shouldn't be surprised that in the future you won't find a job and therefore will get bogged down in credit bondage. This means that you are still guilty by definition that you yourself or your parents could not predict which specialty would pay well (for a normal life with 2 children, also well-mannered and educated, no worse, but better than their parents) and at the same time have the least competition in society. Obviously, such specialties are given with extreme difficulty in learning, so most weak students go where it is easier, gaining expensive loans and not thinking at all that since they go where it is easier, then when starting an independent life they will quickly face great competition among those who also chose the easiest path in education and professions.

What does a lot of competition for a place lead to? That's right, bingo! To a fall in labor compensation! Those. if a weak "higher education" and a bunch of competitors for the same easy place are incomprehensible to a 17-year-old young man (or parents, who should be much more experienced in life) - then who is the moron if not this student himself? Pay the bill! Otherwise, write-off eliminates natural selection and filtering of the weak. A society that encourages a weak layer of the population (who doesn't even try, just goes with the flow) is doomed. And there is no pity for these young people and their parents.

Quote from: A on May 02, 2024, 23:26:27The language you speak of has nothing to do with how you identify yourself

Language partly shapes the way of thinking and mentality; there are many scientific works proving this, and in practice it is obvious. Very few people manage to break out of the shackles of one language, especially if a person does not know several languages.

How much do you personally know, huh? How many mentalities have you absorbed with them?

The problem is not national identity - its escalation always leads to Nazism and fascism (although fascism can exist without Nazism (it was Nazism that bloomed in the Russian Federation, and then an outright form of fascism) - the latest example is the USA/EU since 2020 in open form, although this was a long process of the collapse of democratic institutions and civil liberties, which I described in much more detail above in this thread and in even more detail in many comments on the state of civilization in different threads here - all this is easy to find by searching by year). The problem is how rational a person is, adequate and adheres to justice and integrity towards others. When everyone treats everyone else with respect. In Russia this does not exist even at the everyday level - everyone secretly (but this often manifests itself openly) hates each other. Everyone understands this. This radically distinguishes Russian society, which is rotten to the core (which essentially has not been healthy for centuries), from other societies. Which are in more favorable conditions. Some are still there, but are already rapidly falling, like the EU/USA, and some are trying to develop, but now this is increasingly rare.

In fact, today the Kremlin's crazy machine accuses Ukraine of fascism/Nazism in propaganda, just like the USA/EU, but they are just 100% fascists, it's just that they are also Nazis (albeit as bad, atamorous and disunited as the "Russian "the majority, probably not a single nationality lives in Russia anymore - that is why the "Russians" do not hate themselves and other nationalities so much, which, unlike them, even at the smallest everyday level literally stand for each other like a "mountain"), as the most fanatical part of the Ukrainians, who for many centuries actually did not have normal independence from other nationalities, hence so much hatred towards the Russians, who absorbed them a long time ago as part of the Russian empire, although it was Russia that became a derivative of Kievan Rus. Ukraine was the chicken, not Russia - it is its derivative and the egg. Rotten egg, unfortunately.

The problem is that fascism has now flourished everywhere on the planet. Fusion of corporations with the criminal power of populists/demagogues/liars. And somewhere in this there is also varying degrees of Nazism mixed in.

For example, the Japanese are definitely Nazis, even if they try to disguise this topic. Can anyone dispute this? Or the Chinese (with all their dialects of languages and ethnic groups) are also certainly Nazis. A fairly united group, but the value of human life in their society is clearly not in the first place, and this has been historically for centuries, millennia, the communists, or rather those who pretended to be communists, simply threw grains into fertile soil. Just like in Russia.

India is a caste country, and within castes, Nazism is commonplace. And in general, it was not for nothing that Hitler himself considered the Hindus an Aryan nation. They clearly felt close in spirit...

I am for a united world and united approaches to rights and freedoms. With a single global parliament (and not a fucking president-tsar), because the efficiency of fighting nations is almost zero. Only a united planet, where minimum standards of rights and freedoms, living standards have been established, excluding wild social stratification with billionaire oligarchs (00% of whom, no matter how deep you look, should have been in prison for a long time, because many times 100% violated the established rules (laws)) can move further in its development.

The strife of nations is a vestige of the past, dragging human civilization into the abyss and a fatal ending.

All this can be solved only through comprehensive education, with the broadest possible horizons, critical and rational thinking towards everything and in everything. But obviously, such a task with such social stratification, even to a first approximation, cannot be solved with 8 billion souls on the planet. And it is even more unsolvable when the cletopcratic castes in each individual country (and clearly already well united on the planet on critical issues of their survival) try to dumb down and fool the population as much as possible, to create such approaches in public education systems that new generations will go out into independent life with the most stereotyped thinking, which is extremely convenient for the manipulation and control of these masses by the klepctoratic castes.

I don't know where civilization will turn in the next 100-150 years, but if it cannot solve these problems, its death or at least a reduction in population by 10-15 times is already a foregone conclusion. Because such a huge population requires ever more subtle and coordinated management in all areas - the slightest error in the system and a general collapse will begin, which, like a fire, will burn out the majority of the population in the instantly arose ruthless feuds for the remains of still available resources with a complete failure of all mechanisms for their extraction and creation and distribution.

Quote from: SneakyFrickinRussian on May 02, 2024, 12:05:07>Ukraine doesn't count the people there as ethnically Ukrainian or ethnically Russian, they count them as Ukrainian citizens. Only Russia makes a fuss about classifying ethnicity and they count anyone who speaks Russian as Russian ethnicity. And they use that as an excuse to go to war

No, it is not true. ukraine since 2014 was aggresively trying to re-born people as ukrainians - even my step-sister and her husband became self-identified ukrainians, despite having no ancestors of ukranian origin and having basically no working knowledge of ukrainian language. Second, ukraine never identified itself as multi-nation country. It could be easily proved by looking at language laws. For all time of ukraine independence Russian language was opressed as much as it could be for a language of everyday talk for about a half of ukraine population. The first law to cancel by ukrainian parliament after Yanukovich forced exit was law of Russian language status as regional (local) - this was so much important for Western-oriented leaders coming to power after Maidan coup. C'mon, you can distrust me, but Orban talks about the same - ukraine is opressing the right of using people's native language (he talks about Hungarian minority in West Karpathes). No other European country with multiple languages in use by population has so opressing language laws - Belgium, Finland, Switzerland, Netherlands, France, Spain, UK. And yes, the story began before 2014, and yes, no war could excuse it.

Sigh, again, the only one who cares about the ethnicity nonsense is Russia. When your step sister says she self identifies as a ukranian she is making a statement that she doesn't want to be a citizen of Russia and is a citizen of Ukraine and doesn't want Russia to use her as an excuse for war

Russian language was not oppressed as much as it could be, that is nonsense. Russian has been long spoken through out Ukraine, even in kyiv. Of course come independence, Ukraine did encourage the take up of the Ukrainian language which was prior suppressed by the Russians. Russia even today suppresses the Ukranian language in the territories they take over from Ukraine

Come Yanukovich, they did remove the Russian language as the official language for legal documents. But your language not being official language is not oppression. Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Poland all did the same thing

You seem to misunderstand why the countries you listed allow for multiple official languages. By EU law, any country that joins official language must become an official language of the EU. If Ukraine were to join with 2 official languages, that means the entire EU would have to add both languages to all legal. Reducing it to 1 makes sense, for both EU and Ukraine. Do understand just because it isn't an official language doesn't mean you can't get translated copies. It just dictates how official documents are communicated

Now was there some discrimination in general of the Russian language in Ukraine due to people being sore from Russia trying to control them? Yes, as the saying goes, bullying leads to more bullying. That said, as they join the EU, EU law forbids discriminating against languages, so these things would have been corected as they grew closer to compliance with the EU

Quote>That said, as far as the census went in 2001, 56.9% of people in Donetsk see themselves as Ukrainian, and 38.2% as Russian. Luhansk was 58% Ukranian, 39% Russian

I don't trust even Russian election results, and you are trying to convince me using ukrainian stats - sorry, no way. This question is too political for them to show real statistics. Probably, it is no better thinking, but between 20 to 30 relatives I had/have in Donbass no one was/is speaking ukrainian language - only Russian. The only case of me hearing ukrainian language talk (except from radio/TV) was when some alcoholic man approached me on street asking for money. We had a small talk, and he said he was not local. That's it.

Just because you identify yourself as Ukrainian doesn't mean you don't speak Russian. The language you speak of has nothing to do with how you identify yourself

The census is done by local regions, why would the Donetsk and Luhsnk regions pretend they have more % people identifying as Ukrainians?

Quote>What nonsense are you talking about?

I'm talking about simple fact - no separatist could win if population doesn't support him. This was main reason why Russia lost first Chechen war. I know for sure Donbass separatists were not angels coming from Heaven, pretty much of them were cruel and violent. But ukranian forces were no better, and Donbass local population rarely saw him as protecters. They were aliens for them. Furthermore, if you still have illusions on what Tornado, Azov, Aydar and other armed nationalistic ukrainian battalions did with local population - google it, you will find many unpleasant surprises. For example, Tornado was so awful that even ukrainian law enforcement couldn't resist to take actions towards them.

The separatists were pretty much lost, Ukraine could have long wiped them out, but Ukraine weakened their assault because they didn't want to p*** off Russia. Russia then used that opportunity to send Russians in pretending to be from Donbas which is when Ukraine ended up being pushed back

On top of that, the reason why the separatists in Donbas got initial support was they also did exactly what Hitler did by spreading misinformation and propaganda to make people panic. By the end, the Donbas people wanted things to end, but the Russians and the separatist didn't let them


As for militaristic nationalists like Azov, Ukraine didn't like them either and would have likely slowly got rid of them. If not for Russia sending their troops into Ukraine. At that point Ukraine has no choice as anyone willing to fight against Russia they had no choice but to accept

Quote>As far as Ukraine is really concerned, as long as Donbas doesn't want to join Ukraine, they would be fine with letting them go if they really wish

No, it is not true. ukraine couldn't afford Donbass to exit, because real rulers of ukraine didn't allow it to happen. If only it was true - we would be living in so much better world now.

I will remind you that prior, Russia sabotaged the joining of EU and tried to force Ukraine to lock with them, then took over Crimea. If Russia was not part of it and Donbas just independently wanted independence, that would be a different story. Because Ukraine's real fear isn't Donbas leaving, but it being used as a precedence for Russia to take Ukraine. Which is exactly what Russia has been doing.

Quote>1. Russia doesn't care about Donbas, they only want 2 places, Crimea and Kyiv

In fact, from 2014 to 2022 Putin was trying to return Donbass to ukraine, but under conditions he wanted. In fact, it was a betrayal of all Russian self-identified people of Donbass, but this betrayal is nobody's business except for Putin and Russians. Same time ukraine didn't want to have even more alienated and even more uncontrollable Donbass inside, so lazy war with ocassional artillery bombings and real deaths seemed to be endless.

Yes, he doesn't care about Donbass. But he does care about taking Ukraine, his so called terms werefor him to take Ukraine easier

Quote>2. It would make all agreements worthless between Russia as Budapest already exist under which Russia promised to not to invade Ukraine and guarantee their borders. So it would be like acknowledging any future agreement between Russia can be easily broken by Russia at their convenience

Gorbachev withdrawed Soviet army from East Germany under conditions of NATO not being extended. I know, NATO representatives are cynically trying to convince us that no such agreements and conditions could ever be approved by NATO in that time. But I highly doubt that Gorbachev was so stupid to withdraw without anything for exchange for him. I bet it was unspoken agreement, which Gorbachev sadly refused to write on paper (yeah, I and many other Russians don't count him smart, not only for this reason).

So, it is really ridiculous to hear of broken agreements from you, since almost a half of Europe became NATO members in less than 20 years. And yes, I even didn't start to talk about Serbia bombings in 1999. You have no right to ask Russians to obey agreements except for right of being stronger, but after some not so long time you will loose this right too.

An agreement is something that is made on paper, there is no such thing as an unspoken agreement because there is no way anyone can prove it existed. Even secret agreements are done on paper, they just aren't released publicly but you always want to have proof in the off chance the other side does not honor it

Trying to claim that an non-existent figment of imagination being broken is same thing as an actual signed agreements is nonsense

On top of that, the translator for Gorbachev confirmed that no such thing existed and that Gorbachev didn't think there was an agreement related to no expansion of NATO

It is just Russian propaganda to create that myth

The reality is that with the end of the cold war, NATO didn't really care as much about Russia. In fact, things were moving more towards Russia eventually joining NATO with multiple joint councils, partnerships and cooperation signed between the two in the years

The problem was that with Putin gaining power, he wanted to bring back the soviet union which would be difficult if they all joined NATO, he also needed a public enemy for the Russian people, the big bad wolf. Of course before he gained power, he was fine with joining NATO as there were accounts of him being open to it and NATO open to it as well. But as the saying, power corrupts. As he gained more and more power he became greedy

So, NicoB, you still didn't answer any of my questions. Okey, okey, I understand, you just have nothing in your pockets to show.

If somebody would pass nuclear weapons to ukraine, it will immediately use it against Russia, even against old Russia territory, there is no doubt, just no, because ukraine is failing this war, and no ordinary ammunition supply from West could reverse it. For now, ukraine is kamikadze, whos solely purpose of existence is to make as much damage to Russia as possible. However, in this case real ukraine rulers (not ukraine population, and of course not zelenski) will certainly receive some Bulavas from Russia with love coming down from sky to their beloved cities. Putin did state it with all certainty. You can bomb Moscow and Saint-Petersburg and Donetsk, but you can't shot every Russian nuclear submarine at one time - there will be always at least one, who will launch some rockets able to wipe out London, New York or Brussel solo. So, I doubt they would do it. They love life too much %-) Don't worry, my friend, you will live a long life, but probably not so longer than mine :-))

Another Kremlin bot is pouring lies in buckets. What's new here?
No one promised Gorbachev anything in the form of an agreement. But the Budapest Agreement became the reason for the withdrawal of 3,000 nuclear warheads from Ukraine.

If they had even 100 of them, Putin would have been helplessly biting his nails in his bunker since 2014.

And these are facts. The Ukrainians (their corrupt or stupid government) really screwed up the country back in 1994 by agreeing to such a pact. It was necessary to demand only one thing - joining NATO even then.

But again, behind the scenes, both the United States and Europe were scared to death of the nuclear weapons of the Russian Federation, and at that time they were 6 times larger than now, and therefore these cowardly two-faced decisions were made, which the Ukrainians of that time bought into. If they had known how it would all end, they would not have returned a single warhead and would have remade all of their control units with new ones; this was not difficult for their scientists then.

The Russian Federation seems to have already secretly transferred this technology to Iran, which is why the United States is now cowardly walking around Iran, while they did not hesitate to invade Iraq, knowing for sure that there are no weapons of mass destruction there and there will be no fatal resistance.

All Ukraine needs now is nuclear weapons. As fast as possible. It is already pointless to rely on the two-faced USA and Europe - patriotic people are lost, time is lost. Conventional weapons no longer solve anything. Only the threat to destroy Moscow will make the Russians falter and withdraw their troops. We must go to the end, just as the Russians went to the end with threats to use nuclear weapons - whoever is more fearless wins, as recent history has proven.

>Ukraine doesn't count the people there as ethnically Ukrainian or ethnically Russian, they count them as Ukrainian citizens. Only Russia makes a fuss about classifying ethnicity and they count anyone who speaks Russian as Russian ethnicity. And they use that as an excuse to go to war

No, it is not true. ukraine since 2014 was aggresively trying to re-born people as ukrainians - even my step-sister and her husband became self-identified ukrainians, despite having no ancestors of ukranian origin and having basically no working knowledge of ukrainian language. Second, ukraine never identified itself as multi-nation country. It could be easily proved by looking at language laws. For all time of ukraine independence Russian language was opressed as much as it could be for a language of everyday talk for about a half of ukraine population. The first law to cancel by ukrainian parliament after Yanukovich forced exit was law of Russian language status as regional (local) - this was so much important for Western-oriented leaders coming to power after Maidan coup. C'mon, you can distrust me, but Orban talks about the same - ukraine is opressing the right of using people's native language (he talks about Hungarian minority in West Karpathes). No other European country with multiple languages in use by population has so opressing language laws - Belgium, Finland, Switzerland, Netherlands, France, Spain, UK. And yes, the story began before 2014, and yes, no war could excuse it.

>That said, as far as the census went in 2001, 56.9% of people in Donetsk see themselves as Ukrainian, and 38.2% as Russian. Luhansk was 58% Ukranian, 39% Russian

I don't trust even Russian election results, and you are trying to convince me using ukrainian stats - sorry, no way. This question is too political for them to show real statistics. Probably, it is no better thinking, but between 20 to 30 relatives I had/have in Donbass no one was/is speaking ukrainian language - only Russian. The only case of me hearing ukrainian language talk (except from radio/TV) was when some alcoholic man approached me on street asking for money. We had a small talk, and he said he was not local. That's it.

>What nonsense are you talking about?

I'm talking about simple fact - no separatist could win if population doesn't support him. This was main reason why Russia lost first Chechen war. I know for sure Donbass separatists were not angels coming from Heaven, pretty much of them were cruel and violent. But ukranian forces were no better, and Donbass local population rarely saw him as protecters. They were aliens for them. Furthermore, if you still have illusions on what Tornado, Azov, Aydar and other armed nationalistic ukrainian battalions did with local population - google it, you will find many unpleasant surprises. For example, Tornado was so awful that even ukrainian law enforcement couldn't resist to take actions towards them.

>As far as Ukraine is really concerned, as long as Donbas doesn't want to join Ukraine, they would be fine with letting them go if they really wish

No, it is not true. ukraine couldn't afford Donbass to exit, because real rulers of ukraine didn't allow it to happen. If only it was true - we would be living in so much better world now.

>1. Russia doesn't care about Donbas, they only want 2 places, Crimea and Kyiv

In fact, from 2014 to 2022 Putin was trying to return Donbass to ukraine, but under conditions he wanted. In fact, it was a betrayal of all Russian self-identified people of Donbass, but this betrayal is nobody's business except for Putin and Russians. Same time ukraine didn't want to have even more alienated and even more uncontrollable Donbass inside, so lazy war with ocassional artillery bombings and real deaths seemed to be endless.

So is for now.

>2. It would make all agreements worthless between Russia as Budapest already exist under which Russia promised to not to invade Ukraine and guarantee their borders. So it would be like acknowledging any future agreement between Russia can be easily broken by Russia at their convenience

Gorbachev withdrawed Soviet army from East Germany under conditions of NATO not being extended. I know, NATO representatives are cynically trying to convince us that no such agreements and conditions could ever be approved by NATO in that time. But I highly doubt that Gorbachev was so stupid to withdraw without anything for exchange for him. I bet it was unspoken agreement, which Gorbachev sadly refused to write on paper (yeah, I and many other Russians don't count him smart, not only for this reason).

So, it is really ridiculous to hear of broken agreements from you, since almost a half of Europe became NATO members in less than 20 years. And yes, I even didn't start to talk about Serbia bombings in 1999. You have no right to ask Russians to obey agreements except for right of being stronger, but after some not so long time you will loose this right too.

Quote from: SneakyFrickinRussian on May 01, 2024, 23:27:06This is the sad game, which being played since by both opponents. And please don't call separatists as Russians - initially only Donbass locals with a very few exceptions were trying to separate from ukraine. Your ukrainian friends will be upset for your stances, since they count all Donbass citizens as being ethnically ukrainians - despite almost 90% of them speaking only Russian language and not less than 60% of them calling themselves as Russians. Real Russians were very slow to enter, basically not earlier than August 2014.

Ukraine doesn't count the people there as ethnically Ukrainian or ethnically Russian, they count them as Ukrainian citizens. Only Russia makes a fuss about classifying ethnicity and they count anyone who speaks Russian as Russian ethnicity. And they use that as an excuse to go to war

The only reason Ukraine clarifies Ukrainian ethnicity is because they don't want to be labeled as ethnically Russians by Russia because as Russia is concerned, they see themselves a rulers of anyone labeled as such

That said, as far as the census went in 2001, 56.9% of people in Donetsk see themselves as Ukrainian, and 38.2% as Russian. Luhansk was 58% Ukranian, 39% Russian

Quote>To which the Russian separatist leader admitted on video that "yes we use you as human shields, but it lets us win"

They won because Donbass being ethnically and culturally Russian for many decades.

What nonsense are you talking about? Did you not get the context of the statement. He is saying by using Donbas citizens as human shields made it harder for the Ukrainian army to fight back, thus it let them win. Has absolutely 0 to do with ethnicity or culturally

QuoteIn fact, Chechnya is much less Russian than Donbass. I was born there about 39 years ago, had relocated to Russia about 34 years ago, and I still have relatives living there. I've visited Donbass almost every year since, and could see what was happening here over years. ukraine was failed state for many years, and Donbass was her unloved child. ukraine as a state did almost nothing to economically, culturally and socially develop Donbass. I've seen it degrading for many years. If you live in Europe, I bet you couldn't even approximately understand how deep was Donbass dive from urbanized highly developed region with excellent infrastructure to degraded depressive place since ukraine gaining independence. Western-oriented ukraine leaders always knew who populated Donbass, and they both never had any dreams or misunderstandings about each other.

Ukraine was a failed state, many places, not just donbas saw their quality of life fall even compared to Belerus, let alone Poland which grew well economically

Part of the failure in Ukraine has been due to corruption, and a lot of that corruption was tied down to Russia. Ukraine wanted to break free of that and join the EU to become like Poland and Latvia. On top of that, by starting the process to join the EU would have forced Ukraine to comply to EU standards and laws which would have helped reduce corruption significantly

As far as Ukraine is really concerned, as long as Donbas doesn't want to join Ukraine, they would be fine with letting them go if they really wish (and not being threatened by Russia). But the problem there is 2 things

1. Russia doesn't care about Donbas, they only want 2 places, Crimea and Kyiv. Donbas is just a stepping stone to have an excuse to take Kyiv. It is the same method that Hitler used, claim that "ethnic Germans were being prosecuted", use that as an excuse to take a portion of the land, hold a referendum at gun point and integrate the land, then use it to invade the entire country

2. It would make all agreements worthless between Russia as Budapest already exist under which Russia promised to not to invade Ukraine and guarantee their borders. So it would be like acknowledging any future agreement between Russia can be easily broken by Russia at their convenience

Thus, any yielding just means delaying the war for tomorrow with Russia coming in later with stronger position as they would fortify their supply chains on the conquered land

>You seem to be forgetting the protest in Donbas against the Russian separatists, they were upset that the Russian separatist were using Donbas citizens as human shields to attack from civilian locations so that when retaliated against, civilians end up dying

This is the sad game, which being played since by both opponents. And please don't call separatists as Russians - initially only Donbass locals with a very few exceptions were trying to separate from ukraine. Your ukrainian friends will be upset for your stances, since they count all Donbass citizens as being ethnically ukrainians - despite almost 90% of them speaking only Russian language and not less than 60% of them calling themselves as Russians. Real Russians were very slow to enter, basically not earlier than August 2014.

>To which the Russian separatist leader admitted on video that "yes we use you as human shields, but it lets us win"

They won because Donbass being ethnically and culturally Russian for many decades. In fact, Chechnya is much less Russian than Donbass. I was born there about 39 years ago, had relocated to Russia about 34 years ago, and I still have relatives living there. I've visited Donbass almost every year since, and could see what was happening here over years. ukraine was failed state for many years, and Donbass was her unloved child. ukraine as a state did almost nothing to economically, culturally and socially develop Donbass. I've seen it degrading for many years. If you live in Europe, I bet you couldn't even approximately understand how deep was Donbass dive from urbanized highly developed region with excellent infrastructure to degraded depressive place since ukraine gaining independence. Western-oriented ukraine leaders always knew who populated Donbass, and they both never had any dreams or misunderstandings about each other.

>Who blew up houses in Moscow, Volgodonsk and Buinaksk in the fall of 1999, just when Putin became prime minister after being the head of the KGB (FSB)?

You seem to completely missing the timeline. Let me refresh your memory.

1991 - collapse of USSR
1991-1994 - anarchy in Chechnya, Chechen nationalism uprise, mass exodus of non-Chechen citizens, crime and violence at full power
1994 - tanks in Grozny, capital of Chechnya, aviation and artillery bombing resulting in massive deaths of both separatists and civilians, full scale civil war
1995 - Budennovsk (at mainland Russia) maternity hospital terrorist siege, Chechen terrorists lead by Basayev shooting from opened windows from behind of pregnant women, over hundred civilians dead at the end
1996 - Kizlar (at Dagestan, part of Russia) hospital terrorist siege, dozens of civilians dead
1996 - Hasav-Yurt agreements, de-facto Russia's surrender
1996-1999 - anarchy in Chechnya, slave market in Grozny, terrorism and separatism uprising, Sharia law in Chechnya, public executions for adultery
July 1999 - Chechen terrorists are going on trip outside of Chechnya to attack Dagestan border posts, some videos with Russian soldiers throats being cut by knife accompanied by sound of their blood wheezing in lungs even after death - are still available on Internets
August 1999 - greedy, corrupt, angry, evil, source-of-all-sins Putin becoming prime minister of Russia
...and finally - fall of 1999 - "blew up houses in Moscow, Volgodonsk and Buinaksk"

So, the story is very clear - Putin is root of all evil!

I love writing paragraphs of blithering garbage that nobody will read because it's so stupid.

Ukraine had enough patriots in the first months of the invasion and a strong spirit. But they all died due to the fault of not only Putin's Russia, but the West, which at the level of intelligence services knew perfectly well about the upcoming invasion and preparations for it for more than a year, did not accept or do anything at the level of dangerously two-faced populist politicians to strengthen Ukrainian patriots with modern Western weapons at the right critical time.

As everyone already knows, the West measured out weapons in exactly the right doses and quality throughout 2022 in order to, by agreement with Putin, allow his troops to gain a foothold in previously secretly agreed upon territories.

All "support" for Ukraine was reduced only to massive media support, and just when large inflation hit the West due to the fault of kleptocrats/bankers and the population supporting populists. The first thing Biden lied in March 2022 in the very first weeks of March was about "Putin's inflation" - this speech is on the White House website, word for word. When anyone who understands economics and any economist/analyst knew that in such a short time it could not have penetrated into all the pores of the life of Western countries. But all traders and analysts saw how it is, inflation is quickly gaining momentum after the printing of trillions in 2020 and 2021, and even with the spilling out of old QE from stock markets into the real economy. The artificial canopy of fiat candy wrappers was already so large and so clearly visible to all adequate people at the end of 2021 (as well as the growing indignation at the covid scam among the population at the same time), that it is obvious that the powerful stratum of Western countries that embarked on the criminal totalitarian path in 2019 (and then also a reboot of the market was needed, because everything was going to collapse and so) it was necessary to distract attention with something large-scale. Afghanistan was a well-established topic, so Ukraine came in handy. Putin's power of course was swinging, but he could survive 2022-2023 relatively calmly, but apparently he launched the invasion after secret blackmail and eventually an agreement that he would receive part of Ukraine, in exchange for a guaranteed shock created artificially for Westerners. They all played in unison. It is for this reason that oil, gas, metals, uranium, grain continue to flow into Western countries as before, only through longer, roundabout routes. What would be unthinkable would be if Putin's Russia really were the blood enemy of the kleptocracy of the West. But a fisherman sees a fisherman from afar, right? When there are common interests (or when the danger of a real conflict could stop the existence of Western states), it is better to reach an agreement in secret.

And why? Because the entire West in reality, as expected, turned out to be cowards, and when Putin and his coda threatened with a nuclear strike, the West retreated at the decisive moment and betrayed Ukraine.

And now neither planes nor anything will help Ukraine - because there are practically no more patriots - they all died and were mentally reborn after more than 2 years of this massacre, having seen where the Ukrainian kleptocracy is leading and heading towards. There is no more layer of support.

And why should young Ukrainians (or Russians) live in these terrible countries, where there is no longer any prospect of living a normal human life? These are dead territories. Both Russia and Ukraine. Only mental slaves remain there, and the free ones either flee from there or are tortured and killed in dungeons.

What about the Ukrainians? The West looks cynically at how the Ukrainian authorities blocked the departure of millions of men and allowed the destruction of millions of families, because... women with children remained in Europe and other countries, and their men in Ukraine were either slaves or had already been killed. But for male predators in Europe there are so many young women at once. And a good injection into the society of non-Arab, African tribes. and relatively mentally close Ukrainians. They killed two birds with one stone - and the demography will improve and the Arab-African diasporas with a mentality alien to Europeans will sharply decrease in percentage terms.

Just think about it - millions of families destroyed. They have been without their men for more than 2 years. This is a collapse. Only rich strata manage to escape for bribes to the corrupt security forces of Ukraine. And the bribes are getting higher and higher.

This week, Ukraine, a supposedly "free" country (albeit defending itself from aggression), announced that it was officially withdrawing from European human rights conventions.

The war is dragging on more and more. Putin's Russia is increasingly strengthening itself in the occupied territories, with the calm connivance of the West, which provides exactly as many weapons as necessary for the process to proceed exactly in the direction that is beneficial to all key players. But not to the fallen patriots of Ukraine and their relatives.

What will missiles and planes and tanks change now in 2024 in strictly dosed portions, when Ukraine has practically no combat-ready troops left, strong in spirit, and Putin can calmly overwhelm their offensive with the carcasses of his slaves, albeit weak in spirit, since he has a lot of them ?

Do the men who remain in Ukraine really need all this? What is this all for? There are fewer and fewer naive ordinary citizens who see the feast, the chaos being created and the embezzlement of those in power during the war, and propaganda is working worse and worse. And why do the remnants of free-thinking people in Russia need all this? Neither in Ukraine, obviously, there will be any free country in the next 10-15 years, with such an unbridled kleptocracy, much less any Russia of a "bright future", even if Putin dies tomorrow - because the mentality of the majority of Russians is terrible and scary, they this was proven not by word, but by deed. The next day after Putin's funeral, they will immediately choose a new "tsar". Because the majority in Russia cannot think otherwise. They never lived freely for centuries, even in the 90s, it was only a shadow of freedoms and rights, but not real rights and freedoms that the slaves were simply not mentally ready to fight fo...

To any powerful kleptocracy, smart, well-educated people are of no value unless they work for them. This means that for kleptocrats, the value of life, such developed people, is zero and killing them costs them nothing, because they still cannot derive any benefit from them for themselves.

People in Europe and North America now naively believe that this fate will bypass them (not noticing how totalitarian laws and large corporations are increasingly swallowing up freedom and rights), but everything is heading towards a big planetary massacre and the forced mobilization of surplus and obstinate inhabitants into the trenches Western countries are also just around the corner. It will be so, because this is already predetermined by civil passivity and submission to the obvious duplicity and manifestation of evil on the part of the majority of the increasingly stupid population...

Funeral pyres will burn everywhere, there will be nowhere to hide...

Quote from: SneakyFrickinRussian on April 30, 2024, 18:23:44>Business is immoral and greedy and there is no crime that he would not commit. But corrupt politicians and the executive branch diligently do not notice this...

You, just like most other Western citizens, didn't even notice ukraine was using military aviation and rocket artillery systems against Donbas civilians 10 years ago. You didn't notice Odessa fire massacre at local House of Unions on 02.05.14 , nor you didn't notice ukraine regime silently omitted proper investigation of it (and Maidan shootings as well). You didn't notice ukraine regime eyes wide shut on journalists killings (Oles Buzina) and persecutions (Igor Guzhva). You didn't notice ukraine regime persecution on Ukrainian Orthodox Church, on freedom of press and speech, on freedom of using native language just because it is Russian language.

And now you dare not to see what's going on in Gaza. Oh, you see? So, how much sanctions your democratically elected government did introduce on those, who made Gaza catastrophe happen? No one yet since October, whereas Russia got full pack of it in a couple of days since 24.02.22 .

No, it's not business, it's you with your corrupt and hypocrite moral, who allows all of it to happen. If there was somebody fair and brave enough to admit ukraine regime crimes on Donbass people in 2014 and to stop them, there will be no war now.

You seem to be forgetting the protest in Donbas against the Russian separatists, they were upset that the Russian separatist were using Donbas citizens as human shields to attack from civilian locations so that when retaliated against, civilians end up dying

To which the Russian separatist leader admitted on video that "yes we use you as human shields, but it lets us win"

In the first place, all of this could have easily been addressed in the UN. Ukraine was fine with letting UN peace keepers in to insure safety. But Russia wouldn't allow it, up until 2016 when Russian separatists couldn't take any more land from Ukraine. At that point, Putin said he would allow UN peacekeepers, but only for 6 months. Everyone found it weird how it was so short a timeframe, but ultimately Ukraine agreed under the condition that no Russian UN troops be sent to their side. And guess what? Russia vetoed it! All they wanted was to send spies in for 6 months to resume the offensive

The whole pretext Russia has fell flat when they decided to integrate the areas into Russia. That their goal was conquest from day 1 using the same exact method Hitler used

And do note there was an agreement between Russia and Ukraine, the Budapest which Russia violated

And I wrote many times that the Ukrainian government, since February 2022, has completely degenerated into a totalitarian one under the pressure of war. And the West is still cynically and duplicitously silent on this matter, publicly declaring only one thing: "this is a complex issue." Because this also raises questions about what is happening in Western countries themselves since 2020.
On the one hand, the Western authorities publicly assure that they support the rights and freedoms of citizens enshrined in the UN Declaration of Human Rights, and at the same time calmly look at the fact that the authorities, even of a defending country, are forcing people to go to war and imprisoning people for refusing to fight and wanting to leave this country. country as a free person, and not a slave of slave owners, because it does not consider this corrupt government to be something worth dying for (but not for the children of the elite), because Ukraine has just begun the process of liberation from the totalitarian secret shackles of Russia and this attempt was stopped completely in February 2022. Only true patriots can fight. Patriots are in the head, not in words. When the patriots (or idiots) run out, the totalitarian power of coercion begins in favor of the powerful stratum.

It was once correctly said in the past - in any war started by the elite, the adult children of the elite (especially legislators, the government, judges, prosecutors and other types of "security officials") must go to war, without fail, in the front row, according to the constitution, without any excuses . Then there will never be any more wars on planet Earth.

But it's surprising - not a single Constitution, not a single country, has an article that the children of this very powerful elite go to war first in full force. Strange, right? And it clearly shows for whom the laws were actually invented and work...

 

Quote from: SneakyFrickinRussian on May 01, 2024, 14:37:15Basaev ordered all of his most cruel terrorist attacks against civilians (Buddenovsk, Nord-Ost, Beslan massacres) outside of Chechnya.

Who blew up houses in Moscow, Volgodonsk and Buinaksk in the fall of 1999, just when Putin became prime minister after being the head of the KGB (FSB)? And he needed election against the backdrop of the stupid population's fear of artificially created chaos - a "firm hand" when Yeltsin abandoned power on December 31, 1999? Remember how Putin promised to defend democracy, the rights and freedoms of citizens, and the constitution in 1999? And what is left of them and her in 2024? (watch the film "Palace" by Polanski - there is a direct insertion of this speech by Putin in 1999 - by the way, Russian censorship removed this speech оf 31.12.1999 of "acting president" Putin from the film in the official translation, by the way). Why did they happen exactly when it was most profitable? It was definitely not Basayev and it has not been proven that they were Chechens. Otherwise, the terrorist attacks continued. And they suddenly stopped.

The mentioned terrorist attacks happened during Putin's first reign in the second Chechen war, which he started, so as not to lose Chechnya and not receive further de-federalization of Russia. And one of them in 1995, right at the height of the first Chechen war. No connection? And it is clearly visible to many rationally thinking people, especially after what happened with the invasion of Georgia in 2008, then Crimea/Donbass in 2014 and the direct invasion of Ukraine in 2022.

If a duck quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, it's definitely a duck.

Taking into account financial losses (including future ones) and manpower, reputation (those who promised to ensure the territorial integrity of Ukraine according to the Budapest Memorandum, according to which naive (or their corrupt government in the 90s) Ukrainians gave 3000 warheads) - wouldn't it be cheaper to arrange for everyone to Russian "freedom" for the residents of Ukraine, to arrange a magnificent resettlement to Russia? By giving everyone a house with a plot of land? Is there not enough space in Russia with 1/5 of the earth's landmass? Maybe it's not a matter of protecting the interests of a certain "Russian" layer, but simply the fear that Ukraine is quickly leaving their influence and showing the cowardly mental slaves in Russia that it is possible to live differently and much better than them? And this is envy, and this is the collapse of Putin's mafia rule with the power of the KGB. Just like what happened with the USSR, when, under the pressure of a clearly better life, rights and freedoms in the West, the local population no longer wanted to live in a concentration camp. But it was not ready to create normal conditions, and the West cynically abandoned this young country after the collapse of the USSR, predetermining a return to revanchite ideas and hatred of the West. Everything here is completely covered up. And there is no excuse for anyone. But the fact is that it was Russia, flouting international pacts and laws, that invaded a foreign country and began to destroy cities and kill Ukrainians who did not agree to be under their heel. And the collapse of Russia is inevitable. Even with nuclear weapons. Even an 8 times larger nuclear arsenal did not help the USSR from collapse. Apparently the authorities of the USSR were not as frostbitten as the current authorities of Russia, where they are imprisoned for posters with the word "Peace" and for having hairstyles in blue and yellow tones, they kill political prisoners and massively use criminals (including murderers) in the war in Ukraine, giving them awards and honor in this new alternative reality, where it is simply impossible for normal people to exist. So they all run away from there, although the exit there is practically blocked.