It was my extensive knowledge and understanding of risks and requirements, as an IT professional, that quickly led to the conclusion that Linux in the Ubuntu LTS version, even configured at Dell factories supposedly for the "average Joe", was completely inoperable. In which nothing worked properly from the hardware and it was a hole in the Internet with zero security out of the box.

A year later, I installed a more recent version of Ubuntu on another newly purchased laptop - and again the hassle of installing and configuring and the impossibility of banal hardware acceleration of VP9 quickly put an end to it. I was amused (or even sadly disappointed) by even installing banal Skype under Linux. This is simply a delusional procedure from the start vs. a couple of clicks under Windows.

If I, a professional with a huge experience on Windows (with a penchant for system development and a good understanding of hardware and systems) could not, with minimal expenditure of personal time, configure a system at least no worse than Windows in terms of hardware support - what "average Joe" would be capable of this? 0.0%.

That's why desktop versions of Linux have been forgotten for 25 years. Which is obvious to anyone except the loudmouths from the Linux camp who have a vested interest in the topic.

You can continue whining, but your lot is a modest couple of percent among the interested crowd.

Quote from: NikoB on April 15, 2024, 11:51:47I killed it (an IT professional who understands what not to do 10,000 times better than average Joe) in 3 hours of setup

Quote from: NikoB on April 15, 2024, 11:51:47So the average Joe, having tinkered with this garbage for 1-2 hours, will simply format the disk

Somehow your knowledge that is "10000 times better that average Joe" translated into only 1 hour more before breaking Linux. Looks like you're overestimating your abilities.

Quote from: A on April 15, 2024, 11:11:06If an average joe were to buy a laptop with linux preinstalled, all the drivers, kernels and everything would already be included. The moment they are custom loading an OS, be it linux or windows, they aren't an average joe anymore.

Another stupid lie and demagoguery.

I was the one who bought a Dell G5 5587 with Ubuntu LTS installed from the factory. It didn't work properly from the factory. I killed it (an IT professional who understands what not to do 10,000 times better than average Joe) in 3 hours of setup by simply selecting the native mode of the NVidia driver, as suggested by Ubuntu itself, after which it stopped booting. And after which it was immediately erased and LTSC 1809 was installed, which has been working successfully for more than 5 years, without ever requesting reactivation with 2018 drivers.

As shown by multiple reviews of those who bought similar junk with Linux, today everything is the same from other manufacturers. The garbage remains inoperative as before from the factory.

So the average Joe, having tinkered with this garbage for 1-2 hours, will simply format the disk and install his favorite Windows in 10 minutes, where everything will work as it should in 1 hour maximum with full support for modern hardware and for which there is a bunch of commercial software 1000 times better than under Linux.

It's funny, probably for the 100th time, to watch a red-eyed figure trying to prove the opposite (literally banging his head against a reinforced concrete wall), although everyone understands that he is a liar, looking at the real market share of desktop versions of Linux and knowing that almost no one they know does not use it and does not plan to use it in the future.

Quote from: NikoB on April 15, 2024, 09:50:25You can't prove otherwise with arguments. Therefore, you are simply a liar who does not understand anything about Linux.

Prove what otherwise? I literally have linux installed on my computer and can easily see that you are speaking nonsense. In comparison, you've what installed a single distro of ubuntu once?

QuotePure lie. Even according to associations for the protection of copyright holders, more than 70% of Windows installations on the planet are pirated. This means that all these users deliberately and consciously chose paid Windows with illegal activation and without official support on a personal level, rather than the "free" version of Linux. Q.E.D.

You are under the delusion that people actually go out of their way to install pirated windows, not realizing that you can get pirated windows even when buying a computer already preinstalled

To use India as an example, here is a quote from an article "A 2018 study reported that at least 91 per cent of PC users in India are using a pirated copy of Windows. In fact, even when one buys a new PC or a laptop with preinstalled Windows, 80-85 per cent of the time, the user gets a pirated copy of the operating system."

What that says is that only 6-11% of the pirated copies are installed by choice, and the rest just get a pirated copy when they buy a pc

An average joe again isn't going around installing operating systems. Most don't even know how to use a computer that well. I know people who buy new copies of MS Office with every pc because they don't want to figure out how to install office themselves

QuoteA stupid lie easily refuted by Linux's share of the desktop OS market. =)

Market share has 0 to do with how much performance something has, most don't care. Only the gamers care about a few fps here or there. And even those gamers are happy with steam deck

QuoteThanks for making me laugh. Another cheap demagoguery. The average Joe won't even understand this red-eyed s***. It will supply Windows and manufacturer's drivers. And everything will work as it should within 20 minutes, unlike shitty Linux, which in 100% of cases lags behind in supporting current hardware for at least six months, or even more, years...

The average joe doesn't need to understand this. If an average joe were to buy a laptop with linux preinstalled, all the drivers, kernels and everything would already be included. The moment they are custom loading an OS, be it linux or windows, they aren't an average joe anymore.

If I were to install windows fresh on a laptop without the oem bloat, half the time the wifi or other hardware doesn't work. That's because often times the drivers are not included and are too new.

The one who bundles the latest drivers is the oem and makes sure everything works, be it windows or linux

QuoteNo, everything is still 1-2%, the rest is inflated by interested parties. And it will be exactly the same after another 15 years. Desktop versions of Linux will never overcome the 10% barrier while there is such chaos and terrible problems with security and support. When no one is responsible for anything, no one needs it, except for a bunch of crazy people who have nothing to lose.

lol, you are in denial of reality. Even when stats says 4%+2%=6% you make nonsense to claim it is 1-2%.

If there are vested interests it would be to bloat windows numbers. I mean what happened to your grand conspiracy of the US government pushing windows?

It's quite funny how you contradict yourself. But again goes to show everything you said goes out the window the moment it is about you. You claim how much spyware and exploits windows has, but then continue to insist on using it. You claim how there is a grand conspiracy to push windows, but then totally ignore that

Quote from: A on April 15, 2024, 01:27:13If you remove the KMS, it will ask you to activate again in 180 days

KMS does not require reactivation. So is digital activation. You don't understand Windows activation at all (and in general you don't understand anything on this platform) and therefore you're lying. I have had LTSB and LTSC for many years - on-site activation. Without KMS server.

Quote from: A on April 15, 2024, 01:27:13Saying nonsense like this shows how little you know about Linux yet result to lying

You can't prove otherwise with arguments. Therefore, you are simply a liar who does not understand anything about Linux.

Quote from: A on April 15, 2024, 01:27:13The average joe never chose windows

Pure lie. Even according to associations for the protection of copyright holders, more than 70% of Windows installations on the planet are pirated. This means that all these users deliberately and consciously chose paid Windows with illegal activation and without official support on a personal level, rather than the "free" version of Linux. Q.E.D.

Quote from: A on April 15, 2024, 01:27:13Shows how little you know, but some hardware run better under Linux than Windows. In part because people can contribute to optimizing the source code, not just the manufacturer

A stupid lie easily refuted by Linux's share of the desktop OS market. =)

Quote from: A on April 15, 2024, 01:27:13When you have latest hardware, you need latest kernel. AX200 requires kernel 5.1+. You likely opted for the LTS Bionic Beaver which came with kernel 4.15. You would have needed to upgrade the kernel, which on Ubuntu would meant using a PPA repo, or if one wanted easy upgrading there is a tool like Mainline. Distros like Mint make upgrading to a newer kernel much easier out of box and of course rolling releases always get latest kernel

Linux DEs let you setup any key, so not sure what you were missing in terms of hotkeys

Thanks for making me laugh. Another cheap demagoguery. The average Joe won't even understand this red-eyed s***. It will supply Windows and manufacturer's drivers. And everything will work as it should within 20 minutes, unlike shitty Linux, which in 100% of cases lags behind in supporting current hardware for at least six months, or even more, years...

Quote from: A on April 15, 2024, 01:27:13But linux has a share of 4% of desktop os

No, everything is still 1-2%, the rest is inflated by interested parties. And it will be exactly the same after another 15 years. Desktop versions of Linux will never overcome the 10% barrier while there is such chaos and terrible problems with security and support. When no one is responsible for anything, no one needs it, except for a bunch of crazy people who have nothing to lose.

Quote from: NikoB on April 14, 2024, 14:13:19In all popular Linux distributions, telemetry is enabled by default, just like in Windows, and you will get tired of disabling it in a bunch of places, just like in Windows. And naturally, the average person will never be able to audit even a small fraction of the code of any Linux distribution, so this is stupid demagoguery in favor of idiots from trolls like "A".

It is not. Saying nonsense like this shows how little you know about Linux yet result to lying, just like how you claimed that you were here before me, yet after proven wrong yet refuse to appoligize

QuoteAgain 100% false. The activation script WITHOUT the Internet works in 15 seconds. After this, even if you delete KMS without turning on the Internet, activation remains forever. Everything is 100% safe. In addition, there are other digital activation methods that do not require KMS and which deceive the M$ activation server, which pretends that everything is in order, intentionally, because it is beneficial for it to maintain an overwhelming share in the desktop OS market (which in turn is beneficial US authorities for geopolitical purposes, so they diligently do not notice a direct violation of US antitrust laws) and this is a proven fact. Same with Intel. Same with Alphabet (Google). This influence is so important that the duplicity of the US authorities is obvious to any sane person. Unfortunately, there are an order of magnitude more idiots on the planet...

If you remove the KMS, it will ask you to activate again in 180 days

US had plenty of anti-trust cases against MS. It is part of the reason they helped prevent Apple from going bankrupt to please regulators

But it is funny that you say Windows is full of backdoors, yet continue to advocate using it. Then naively believe that using of a firewall will help you. But backdoors can be trigger activated, like for example disable firewall at certain time without saying it was disabled, or activated through other means like when you sync for time or when your dns connects to a certain webpage. So many options

QuoteAnother stupid demagoguery, long ago refuted by me. M$ has already supported Windows for 10 years, whether you bought it or illegally activated it. And even the dumbest average person on the planet understands the difference and that is why he always chooses Windows over "free" Linux. =)

The average joe never chose windows, it was given to them. Just like people buy steamdeck without paying attention that it runs Linux or those who buy Apple's Macs. Or all the Android phones that outnumber windows. Most average joe wouldn't even be able to tell the difference between Windows and Linux with a Windows theme. I know this cause I tried it before on people as a prank, they just thought it was a new version of Windows and used it as they always did

QuoteYou write nonsense. If the average person is not dumb as a mouse, it is enough to enter the phrase in Google on how to bypass this limitation and the dumbest average person will immediately be given the correct answer on the first page with the results. So this is never a problem. And if the average person is so stupid that he can't even type the question into a Google search, then he doesn't care. But less than 10% of people on the planet have this level of stupidity - complete intellectual disabilities, i.e. finished downs.

The average joe just runs whatever someone gives them, even when it is a virus

QuoteI had no problem installing w11 in 5 minutes even on a machine with c2d 15 years ago. At the same time, I had never been interested in this before, I just asked Google at that moment in the past how to bypass the restrictions - and found the answer on the first page of search results. Therefore, everything you wrote is nonsense by definition. Anyone who needs this will find the answer instantly in any search engine.

Even if you bypass the restriction, it runs like a laggy hell. That said, most average people don't go so far to install operating systems

QuoteAt the same time, a Windows user will always receive the best support from drivers for the latest hardware, which is 100% excluded under any Linux distribution.

Shows how little you know, but some hardware run better under Linux than Windows. In part because people can contribute to optimizing the source code, not just the manufacturer

QuoteI remember installing the latest version of Ubuntu in 2019 on an AMD machine. And that there was not even support for Intel AX200 and Lenovo hotkeys, and the most shameful thing was that there was no VP9 hardware acceleration on YouTube, all this appeared only much later, but in W10 everything worked right away and all the drivers were in place.

So you installed 1 distro 5 years ago and use that naive statement as your basis? lol

When you have latest hardware, you need latest kernel. AX200 requires kernel 5.1+. You likely opted for the LTS Bionic Beaver which came with kernel 4.15. You would have needed to upgrade the kernel, which on Ubuntu would meant using a PPA repo, or if one wanted easy upgrading there is a tool like Mainline. Distros like Mint make upgrading to a newer kernel much easier out of box and of course rolling releases always get latest kernel

Linux DEs let you setup any key, so not sure what you were missing in terms of hotkeys

But we are not talking about the past, we are talking about now

QuoteEven installing banal Skype in Ubuntu, for me as an IT professional, turned into a whole quest with the Linux command line, at a time when any housewife on Windows installed Skype with a couple of mouse clicks.

Linux Mint has had skype since 2019 in the GUI software store. Flatpak and Snap(Ubuntu) both have skype now too

QuoteNobody needs your mess with Linux and the pitiful share of 2-3%, just like 25 years ago, only proved this.

But linux has a share of 4% of desktop os, 6% if you include chromeos, you really can't stop your bad habit of lying when we are like literally on an article that says 4%

Of course if we count Android, linux makes up the majority

Quote from: Hotz on April 14, 2024, 14:49:23It's obvious you are the one writing nonsense. You are not able to read, contradict yourself, and keep arguing for the arguing's sake.

Your arguments are simply stunning...

Quote from: Hotz on April 14, 2024, 14:49:23It's obvious you are the one writing nonsense. You are not able to read, contradict yourself, and keep arguing for the arguing's sake.

Have a nice day...

Notice that he never uses Linux - according to his own words - but he knows everything about it. Prime level clown and yeah, it's not worth to waste any time on him.

(except to trigger him with insults, as he inputs random s*** into ChatGPT to copy/paste it here as a response because he doesn't even know English so translator is his main tool for trolling and spamming around)

It's obvious you are the one writing nonsense. You are not able to read, contradict yourself, and keep arguing for the arguing's sake.

Have a nice day...

Quote from: RobertJasiek on April 14, 2024, 12:33:39A few years ago, there were plans to introduce opt-out telemetry in Ubuntu. I have not followed its recent development but wonder: is it opt-in or opt-out now?

In all popular Linux distributions, telemetry is enabled by default, just like in Windows, and you will get tired of disabling it in a bunch of places, just like in Windows. And naturally, the average person will never be able to audit even a small fraction of the code of any Linux distribution, so this is stupid demagoguery in favor of idiots from trolls like "A".

Quote from: A on April 14, 2024, 12:12:11Even if you don't need internet access immediately, it will contact their server after some days

Again 100% false. The activation script WITHOUT the Internet works in 15 seconds. After this, even if you delete KMS without turning on the Internet, activation remains forever. Everything is 100% safe. In addition, there are other digital activation methods that do not require KMS and which deceive the M$ activation server, which pretends that everything is in order, intentionally, because it is beneficial for it to maintain an overwhelming share in the desktop OS market (which in turn is beneficial US authorities for geopolitical purposes, so they diligently do not notice a direct violation of US antitrust laws) and this is a proven fact. Same with Intel. Same with Alphabet (Google). This influence is so important that the duplicity of the US authorities is obvious to any sane person. Unfortunately, there are an order of magnitude more idiots on the planet...

Quote from: A on April 14, 2024, 12:12:11If you want someone accountable, paid versions of linux exist like RedHat, SuSe and Ubuntu Enterprise. What you don't have accountability for is if you opt for the free versions.

Another stupid demagoguery, long ago refuted by me. M$ has already supported Windows for 10 years, whether you bought it or illegally activated it. And even the dumbest average person on the planet understands the difference and that is why he always chooses Windows over "free" Linux. =)

Quote from: Hotz on April 14, 2024, 13:04:02You are writing nonsense. Your "one command" is not visible in the installation process and not known by the average Joe. The average Joe would have to research first to skip that, or forced to register a Microsoft account. None of these things are required for installing Linux.

You write nonsense. If the average person is not dumb as a mouse, it is enough to enter the phrase in Google on how to bypass this limitation and the dumbest average person will immediately be given the correct answer on the first page with the results. So this is never a problem. And if the average person is so stupid that he can't even type the question into a Google search, then he doesn't care. But less than 10% of people on the planet have this level of stupidity - complete intellectual disabilities, i.e. finished downs.

Quote from: Hotz on April 14, 2024, 13:04:02These were not "my dreams", but was a purely objective observation. Give one an install stick with Linux Mint/Ubuntu and then one with Windows 11, and you'll see.

I had no problem installing w11 in 5 minutes even on a machine with c2d 15 years ago. At the same time, I had never been interested in this before, I just asked Google at that moment in the past how to bypass the restrictions - and found the answer on the first page of search results. Therefore, everything you wrote is nonsense by definition. Anyone who needs this will find the answer instantly in any search engine.

At the same time, a Windows user will always receive the best support from drivers for the latest hardware, which is 100% excluded under any Linux distribution.

I remember installing the latest version of Ubuntu in 2019 on an AMD machine. And that there was not even support for Intel AX200 and Lenovo hotkeys, and the most shameful thing was that there was no VP9 hardware acceleration on YouTube, all this appeared only much later, but in W10 everything worked right away and all the drivers were in place.

Even installing banal Skype in Ubuntu, for me as an IT professional, turned into a whole quest with the Linux command line, at a time when any housewife on Windows installed Skype with a couple of mouse clicks.

Nobody needs your mess with Linux and the pitiful share of 2-3%, just like 25 years ago, only proved this.

Q.E.D.

Quote from: NikoB on April 13, 2024, 22:40:28Nonsense, all this can be easily done with one command.

You are writing nonsense. Your "one command" is not visible in the installation process and not known by the average Joe. The average Joe would have to research first to skip that, or forced to register a Microsoft account. None of these things are required for installing Linux.

Quote from: NikoB on April 13, 2024, 22:40:28These are just your wet dreams. The reality is that Windows will continue to have the overwhelming market share, and it will still be the same in 10 years.

These were not "my dreams", but was a purely objective observation. Give one an install stick with Linux Mint/Ubuntu and then one with Windows 11, and you'll see.

Quote from: Hotz on April 13, 2024, 15:16:11The reality is that Windows will continue to have the overwhelming market share, and it will still be the same in 10 years.

Of course it is the reality! But this was not the debate, and I was not arguing against that. I was only saying that installing Windows has become a bigger annoyance than installing Linux.

Ubuntu is not most distros, it's just one. Telemetry was related to Unity, they switched to Gnome since then. You have to opt in if you want to send.

Quote from: A on April 14, 2024, 12:12:11Most linux distros have 0 telemetry enabled by default, when it is there it is usually opt-in, not opt out

A few years ago, there were plans to introduce opt-out telemetry in Ubuntu. I have not followed its recent development but wonder: is it opt-in or opt-out now?

Quote from: NikoB on April 13, 2024, 14:04:50Troll, you don't even know how to activate Windows. It only requires a text bat file, which does not change anything in the system in terms of the code base and it does not even need an internet connection to activate any version of Windows in 15 seconds. It is 100% safe and secure,
just like "legal" activation.


That is why I wrote that M$ deliberately left this hole in the activation system for 9 years in order to continue to maintain an overwhelming market share. They know that more than 70% of the users in the world are sitting on illegally activated copies of Windows and calmly look at it,

It sets your KMS server away from MS one to their own. Even if you don't need internet access immediately, it will contact their server after some days

Quotebecause it is actually extremely profitable for them, because they would not be able to get money from these users anyway, but they influence them choices and preferences and receive telemetry from everyone, just like in Linux by default. In which there is one continuous gift to the Internet by default in all distributions, but eliminating it is much more difficult for the average person than setting up the built-in firewall in Windows.

Most linux distros have 0 telemetry enabled by default, when it is there it is usually opt-in, not opt out like windows. Windows also has telemetry in dozens of places you need to turn it off and even then it doesn't completely go away. And the source code for linux ones if you opt in can be read to see what data is actually being sent if you do opt in for it.

QuoteAll the rest of the nonsense only confirmed the facts - Windows is an order of magnitude more comfortable and convenient than any "free" Linux distribution, which is why in 25 years it has not been able to advance in desktop versions of the OS any significantly in terms of market share. And just like 25 years ago, there is a total mess with security and no one is responsible for anything. And people don't want to use a product made by a bunch of red-eyed people who don't care about anything and are not responsible for anything. How many other bookmarks are there because there is no control? And there is no real audit. Even the latest discovery was purely an accident. Luck, not systematic work.

If you want someone accountable, paid versions of linux exist like RedHat, SuSe and Ubuntu Enterprise. What you don't have accountability for is if you opt for the free versions. No one gives you accountability for your pirated windows version either

Marketshare is dictated what OEMs include. If they include Android, it ends up the default. If you include Windows, it ends up the default. Users have 0 attachment to windows

Quote from: Hotz on April 13, 2024, 15:16:11The install process on Windows requires an internet connection and forced registering of a Microsoft account. Any workaround possibilities are hidden, and require research in the internet, and secret key combinations.

Nonsense, all this can be easily done with one command.

Quote from: Hotz on April 13, 2024, 15:16:11If you let a "dumb user" install both things, the "dumb user" will rather finish installing Linux than Windows. This is a purely objective observation.

These are just your wet dreams. The reality is that Windows will continue to have the overwhelming market share, and it will still be the same in 10 years. For a bunch of objective reasons.

Something big needs to happen with Windows for the population to move on to the Linux mess. I don't see anything like that likely in the next 10-15 years.

But of course you keep trying. Trying is not torture...