Quote from: NikoB on February 26, 2024, 18:54:55Robert, what's the point of arguing with this dude? He probably never wrote a single program in his entire life. He doesn't even know what professional software development is, he just saw it from the outside.

lmao please don't talk about programming anymore, after you've said programmers need numpad to NAVIGATE it's clear you are not one of us lmao

Robert, what's the point of arguing with this dude? He probably never wrote a single program in his entire life. He doesn't even know what professional software development is, he just saw it from the outside.

Quote from: RobertJasiek on February 26, 2024, 17:28:34Arithmetics is the thing using + - * /

so you think moving your hand to +/- after every two letters despite you have +/- right there in the number row justifies a numpad? you are slowing yourself down.
get a 6x% keyboard and teach yourself to type properly instead of demanding twenty useless buttons just because.

Arithmetics is the thing using + - * /

Now look at your numpad. Only has digits? Then it is not a proper numpad.

Quote from: RobertJasiek on February 26, 2024, 16:26:43home.snafu.de/jasiek/Endgame_5_Sample.pdf

man, why did you post it, there's clearly almost no numbers and clearly ZERO evidence that you need a numpad.
lmao i even wanted to run it through symbol calculator but it didn't let me select all text.
you don't need numpad for this.

Quote from: RobertJasiek on February 26, 2024, 16:26:43That my blind typing is not, and never will be, as fast as of a secretary is my disadvantage. Numpads are great to compensate such.

playing with touchtype trainer app or website would be a better time spent than writing these comments then lmao

Quote from: lmao on February 26, 2024, 14:56:38if you are not using latex than your writings are not arithmetics-heavy

Created without latex:
home.snafu.de/jasiek/Endgame_5_Cover.png
home.snafu.de/jasiek/Endgame_5_Sample.pdf

Quotelearn to properly blind type and use all your ten fingers on numbers row. should've done that long ago if you are writing.

That my blind typing is not, and never will be, as fast as of a secretary is my disadvantage. Numpads are great to compensate such.

Quote from: RobertJasiek on February 26, 2024, 14:38:36As a writer of digit- and arithmetics-heavy texts, I do need a numpad.

if you are not using latex than your writings are not arithmetics-heavy - and latex is more text than numbers.
also learn to properly blind type and use all your ten fingers on numbers row. should've done that long ago if you are writing.

Quote from: NikoB on February 26, 2024, 13:44:39except for [...] all sorts of "writers" - yes, there is no need for a numpad.

You make a bad concession in discussion. As a writer of digit- and arithmetics-heavy texts, I do need a numpad.

Quote from: NikoB on February 26, 2024, 13:44:39During file navigation, copy-past, group operations, editing - the absence of a numpad (with numlock disabled by default) the efficiency of code entry immediately
drops by an order of magnitude.

yeah yeah and this is just jack s*** you made up lmao
have you even watched a single programming productivity video on youtube

oh my god, guy wants to navigate with numpad, rofl, on mac you can't even do this anymore for ages.
get your frigging bluetooth numpad and enter your "formulas", feels just like your normal boomer numpad, trust me bro.

Quote from: lmao on February 26, 2024, 13:35:44reality - for blind typing aka touch typing you dont need numpad at all, you use 10 fingers on numbers row, people use 6X% keyboards

You apparently have never developed anything professionally or much.

During file navigation, copy-past, group operations, editing - the absence of a numpad (with numlock disabled by default) the efficiency of code entry immediately drops by an order of magnitude. A fact proven many times in disputes with lovers of stripped-down keyboards.

The same thing applies when entering complex formulas or multiple numbers.

Even if we take banal manual trading, understandable to millions, it is completely fatal.

Without a full built-in numpad, a laptop is not a full-fledged a priori, for anyone who is engaged in really productive activities. Well, except for humanists and all sorts of "writers" - yes, there is no need for a numpad.

Quote from: NikoB on February 26, 2024, 13:23:43Good luck with effective 2-handed blind work on this crap...

reality - for blind typing aka touch typing you dont need numpad at all, you use 10 fingers on numbers row, people use 6X% keyboards

Quote from: lmao on February 26, 2024, 13:18:18bluetooth numpads for microsoft excel button pushers are available for purchase.

Good luck with effective 2-handed blind work on this crap...

Saving on a full-fledged keyboard in a 17-18" case is nothing more than pure redneckness of manufacturers.

Quote from: RobertJasiek on February 26, 2024, 11:47:01Hence these manufacturers only think about cutting cost

nice theory about whole world conspiring against you and your cheap 1995 keyboards.
reality - manufacturers think about making body more sturdy while maintaining smaller weight. smaller keyboard hole(s) = less material on top and bottom case required to compensate = less weight.

bluetooth numpads for microsoft excel button pushers are available for purchase.

Manufacturers do it to cut costs. Using the same keyboard from 14" to 18" (Razer) saves cost. On some 16", internal restrictions combined with a too small chassis might make a half height function row nevessary; using the same on 17" saves cost (XMG explained). Hence these manufacturers only think about cutting cost (and chassis size) instead of thinking about user needs and, if necessary to achieve a particular winning margin, increasing endconsumer prices by €50 to offer a nearly perfect keyboard in a notebook. NBC and others not testing keyboard quality thoroughly supports the manufacturers instead of us endconsumers.

I have no complaints about the lack of a numpad on 12-14" models - it's clear that it doesn't physically fit there. It's unclear why there's any chatter out of nowhere about this.

I simply expressed the opinion that with 64GB and matte IPS (better, of course, 4k@120Hz) this is a fairly good device as a system unit and, if you need comfortable surfing and running some heavy background software. But without an external keyboard with a full numpad, the capabilities of all 12-14" laptops are extremely limited as a full-fledged workstation.

Only 15.6"+ models come close to this, but a fully functional keyboard is only possible on models 17" and above. And that's why it makes you laugh when at 17-18" you see poor keyboards from 14" or with a damaged (intentionally) numpad or with narrowed buttons. And the choice of 18" models comes down to a few "gaming" models. And this is sad. And only MSI has a model with 4k 18", but this is just "gaming" hardware, and not for work with a damaged numpad.

What is especially annoying about all laptop keyboards is the narrowed height row of Esc, F1..F12. What kind of goons do all manufacturers have to be in order to save on plastic for these buttons (or install these idiotic unified cheap models, in all diagonals, apparently made at the same Chinese factory) and the size of the keys of this row, even when there is plenty of space on top? Even at 14" this row can easily be made full in height.