Quote from: davidm on January 23, 2024, 15:28:51What about I mean about the 8000 series CPU is the Osborne 1 effect; the 8000 is already announced, we know it's better in potentially important ways (I'm specifically interested in the ability to do on device inference), why would I want a 7000 series?

You were already told why, but you chose to ignore it. This site takes a long time to review these laptops when they become available. You're talking as if this model had become available right now.

There is a perfectly understandable cycle, where 1) AMD announces a new CPU, 2) the new CPU becomes available, 3) Lenovo may prioritize contemporary Intel models to market, but 4) eventually AMD models are announced and 5) become available. After that 6) it takes some time, sometimes a lot of time, until a review appears here, sometimes 7) even more time before they review a configuration you're interested in (display, battery, sometimes dGPU), if that happens at all.

People I know run a car repair shop. Sometimes someone calls and asks when could he bring in his car. Often the answer is "two weeks from now". The person does not make a reservation, but says he'll think about it. After two weeks he calls again and asks how soon can he bring his car in. "Two weeks from now."

You would want a 7000 series if you want a Lenovo laptop now. I bought gen 3 after I saw that the iGPU in gen 4 is not that much faster and decided I don't want to wait for a couple of months.

QuoteUsers will rarely be bothered by the fan as it only reaches this noise level in exceptional situations, as confirmed by the average value under load. While 26 dB(A) is audible, it is scarcely or not at all disturbing. The Lenovo ThinkPad T14 G4, equipped with the same CPU, has an average fan noise of 35 dB(A), which feels twice as loud and is not ideal for calm working environments.

I don't understand this part.
1- Where do you get the figure of 26 dB(A) from? Since the figure shows 31.3 dB(A) for "load average".
2- The Lenovo ThinkPad T14 G4 shows 26.5 dB(A) in its review, for average load.
3- But the link in this text, to ThinkPad T14 G4, leads to the the ThinkPad 14s G4 review.

If I look at the reviews of these three AMD laptops, looking at average load, the P14s produces the most noise, where the T14 is the most silent one. Can you please confirm if I understand this correctly?

I have the P16s G1 version of this laptop I too also noticed trash Wi-Fi and stuttering BT performance with the Qualcomm WCN685x even though other laptops didn't have this issue. After lots of back and forth and multiple MOBO replacements, it turned out that the Wi-Fi antennas were bad. So if you have this issue too, make sure to send it in and specifically request antenna replacements or you will be like me wasting 6 months back and forth from the depot with no laptop.

Quote from: Neenyah on January 23, 2024, 16:34:04I agree with you and that's the reason why I'm not a fan of AMD despite their products (CPUs in particular) being extremely good - it's just borderline impossible to find them anywhere on the market and when they come it's already too late. They [AMD] always give strong presentations, announcements and numbers overall but they always fail to deliver those products in time 😐 Meteor Lake is out for almost a month now, you can even buy a laptop with a Core Ultra 9 185H (what a trash naming system) right this very moment if you want. Good luck doing so with AMD 8000 (and especially 8050) 😑

Well the Intel part is usually at least a generation behind the AMD one, so it evens out. In this case I happen to want the "minor" upgrade feature since it would mean significantly faster low-power inference, and it appears it will be significantly better than Intel's offering (again).

Anyways, I cannot in good conscience support Intel at this time since they have taken a large grant from a region whose current politics I can't support. It's a shame because Intel seems to have much more consistent support for inference, but this is part of being a responsible consumer.

Quote from: davidm on January 23, 2024, 15:28:51What about I mean about the 8000 series CPU is the Osborne 1 effect; the 8000 is already announced, we know it's better in potentially important ways (I'm specifically interested in the ability to do on device inference), why would I want a 7000 series?

I agree with you and that's the reason why I'm not a fan of AMD despite their products (CPUs in particular) being extremely good - it's just borderline impossible to find them anywhere on the market and when they come it's already too late. They [AMD] always give strong presentations, announcements and numbers overall but they always fail to deliver those products in time 😐 Meteor Lake is out for almost a month now, you can even buy a laptop with a Core Ultra 9 185H (what a trash naming system) right this very moment if you want. Good luck doing so with AMD 8000 (and especially 8050) 😑

Quote from: davidm on January 23, 2024, 15:28:51I purposefully used "good" wrt touch screens. I would also love a 3k touch 100% RGB minimum 500 nits display, I'd even happily take the OLED battery hit. I haven't seen any evidence that privacy guard is a good option. https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/xlqsub/this_is_the_privacy_guard_in_2022_x13_gen_3_amd/

I know, that's why I said it is questionable what good is with those screens and I didn't mean they are as good as non-Privacy Guard ones of equal/similar specs, just that they are significantly better than they used to be only two years ago. The Reddit link has one problem - camera. All smartphone cameras are heavily struggling with Privacy Guard, actually one of the reasons why it was designed to be that way was to prevent taking snaps of someone's screen 😁 But yeah, it's really not ideal and something like 3200x2000 500 nits OLED would be golden to have. Maybe this year, we can hope 🥺

What about I mean about the 8000 series CPU is the Osborne 1 effect; the 8000 is already announced, we know it's better in potentially important ways (I'm specifically interested in the ability to do on device inference), why would I want a 7000 series?  Products should be appearing any day now, since the 8000 is probably just a drop-in replacement they should just offer the Gen 4 with it (I know, they probably ordered X chips at X tech level, but I'm here to optimize my position, not rationalize theirs).

I purposefully used "good" wrt touch screens. I would also love a 3k touch 100% RGB minimum 500 nits display, I'd even happily take the OLED battery hit. I haven't seen any evidence that privacy guard is a good option. https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/xlqsub/this_is_the_privacy_guard_in_2022_x13_gen_3_amd/

Quote from: davidm on January 23, 2024, 14:56:29This would be a much more compelling device if it came with the newer 8000 series CPU and had a good touchscreen option.

How could something announced at 11 July 2023 (and available from the very late August 2023) be able to use the 8000 series (which is not even on the market yet)? 🤔 Get a P14s Gen 5 then, that one will get an 8000 series but knowing AMD they will again be many months late to the party.

There are several touch options available though:

• 14" 2.8K (2880x1800) OLED 400nits Anti-glare / Anti-reflection / Anti-fingerprint, 100% DCI-P3, DisplayHDR True Black 500, Dolby Vision
• 14" WUXGA (1920x1200) IPS 300nits Anti-glare, 45% NTSC
• 14" WUXGA (1920x1200) IPS 300nits Anti-glare, 45% NTSC, Touch
• 14" WUXGA (1920x1200) IPS 400nits Anti-glare, 100% sRGB, Low Power
• 14" WUXGA (1920x1200) IPS 500nits Anti-glare, 100% sRGB, ThinkPad Privacy Guard, Touch

Good is maybe questionable there, it all depends about the Privacy Guard which often used to be worse than a cheap TN panel but lately, equally often, it became very good. What I find annoying here with screen options is that there is no 2560x1600 or 3200x2000 IPS. Or straight up 3840x2400 OLED.

This would be a much more compelling device if it came with the newer 8000 series CPU and had a good touchscreen option.