There is 0 excuse to solder RAM other than rip off customers and ruin good laptops.

Quote from: A on December 31, 2023, 18:16:01So when are you moving.

What? I was postulating that Lenovo might stick with it's current ram implementation until CAM becomes more widespread and then introduce CAM with a new design refresh.

CAM seems like the next thing. Once adoption increases, price will fall.

Quote from: Bizarro_NikoB on December 31, 2023, 17:52:18move over to CAM

))))
www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-camm-memory-upgrade-64-gb-5600-mt-s/apd/370-bbhk/memory

So when are you moving.

I wonder if Lenovo will continue the soldered route and wait to move over to CAM with the next design refresh

Quote from: Pad_4_Thinking on December 30, 2023, 20:28:02Speed of light is the reason we must solder? HAHAHA! What a joke!

Yeah from your basement you kinda got used to thinking speed of light is veeeery high.
Definitely can't be a bottleneck, right?

What if I tell you that at 5GHz trace to RAM can't be longer than ±1.65 inch because speed of light is a bottleneck?

The very same model P14S can offer 64GB of soldered RAM, don't see the reason to have slot. 

Speed of light is the reason we must solder? HAHAHA! What a joke!

The reason soldering 6400mhz is wrong is due to the fact that we have 7500mhz RAM. Just do 5400mhz unsoldered or 7500mhz soldered. 6400mhz soldered feels compromised. And what about a second M.2 for SSDs? T14 should have this!

Quote from: Not this again on December 30, 2023, 19:21:06

Quote from: NikoB on December 30, 2023, 16:13:30Zen4 Phoenix works successfully on game consoles with lpddr5 7500

If you call 5%-10% boost "successful" or going from 20 fps in-game to 21 fps, then I guess it is? The main reason for the bottleneck is they're just using far fewer memory lanes. Apple has successfully used LPDDR5 6400 for years now. Or they need to use something much faster. (e.g. GDDR6)

And please don't suggest HBM NikoB, nobody wants to hear this again.

He is always like that; 1 fps more? Welp, the 20 fps one is "shameful", "long outdated" and so on, lol. The guy is a living clown who can't even read the specs right despite linking them multiple times.

Quote from: NikoB on December 30, 2023, 16:13:30

QuoteThis is fast LPDDR5X memory, but

And that's not true. There is a shameful lpddr5 6400, long outdated for Zen4 Phoenix, instead of lpddr5 7500, which is officially supported by Zen4 Phoenix (www.amd.com/en/products/apu/amd-ryzen-7-7840u), but which Lenovo could not make work or simply spared money on desoldering the 7500 version.

Zen4 Phoenix works successfully on game consoles with lpddr5 7500, so this is precisely the fault of Lenovo engineers.

Since you are already soldering the memory, install the fastest one and make it work at a frequency of 7500, not 6400. This is a shame for Lenovo.

And since you can't get it to work at 7500, make 2 slots.

I have to post this again here from another thread because this clown is not giving up:

Quote from: Neenyah on December 30, 2023, 19:17:42

Quote from: NikoB on December 30, 2023, 15:36:46

Quote from: Neenyah on December 28, 2023, 15:03:07

Quote from: NikoB on December 28, 2023, 12:54:46

Quote from: toNiko on December 28, 2023, 10:18:15Installed memory is actually 7500MHz, but run at 6400MHz due to platform limitation.

Lenovo marketers, as usual, lie:
www.amd.com/en/products/apu/amd-ryzen-7-7840u
Official support for 7500 has been announced.

As usual, another participant appears who is not in the subject of real hardware support.

Sleep wakeup problems of the SoC if the RAM runs at 7500. Not that you are aware of that, it's all a great conspiracy where Lenovo (and everyone else) is lying, lol.

Where do you have evidence that AMD is selling defective Zen4s, without exception?

There are already miniPCs and game consoles with Zen4 on Windows on the market, and nowhere is it written about the problems of waking up from sleep with the lpddr5 7500. Therefore, this is another post about a liar-bot.

They are not defective (but your sad excuse of a brain is); per AMD's own PCB Design & Checklist guideline the way to achieve 7500 speed is to use HDI technology in the PCB to minimise stub reflection. Quite literally no one is using that because it is very expensive; well, no one but handhelds (GPD and similar OEMs/manufacturers, for routing density - only handhelds).

Which is why we don't have a single existing laptop on the market with installed LPDDR5x 7500 that actually runs at 7500 instead of 6400. None. Zero. Running 7500 with through-hole PCBs will actually give 7500 speeds but also horrendous sleep wake up issues with every single laptop where they simply can't wake up from sleep at all without hard shutdown and almost all of them have LPDDR5x 7500 installed just like this T14 G4 here.

Quote from: NikoB on December 30, 2023, 16:13:30Zen4 Phoenix works successfully on game consoles with lpddr5 7500

If you call 5%-10% boost "successful" or going from 20 fps in-game to 21 fps, then I guess it is? The main reason for the bottleneck is they're just using far fewer memory lanes. Apple has successfully used LPDDR5 6400 for years now. Or they need to use something much faster. (e.g. GDDR6)

And please don't suggest HBM NikoB, nobody wants to hear this again.

Well, with prices for memory and SSD in 2023, I consider it insulting for all buyers of laptops that cost more than $1000 to have less than 32GB of RAM and at least 2TB of SSD from the factory. This should be the minimum acceptable ram+ssd configuration in 2023, not to mention 2024, where the RAM should already be out of the box from the factory, in models with this price, from 64GB, and even more so in models from $1500 without a dGPU.

QuoteThis is fast LPDDR5X memory, but

And that's not true. There is a shameful lpddr5 6400, long outdated for Zen4 Phoenix, instead of lpddr5 7500, which is officially supported by Zen4 Phoenix (www.amd.com/en/products/apu/amd-ryzen-7-7840u), but which Lenovo could not make work or simply spared money on desoldering the 7500 version.

Zen4 Phoenix works successfully on game consoles with lpddr5 7500, so this is precisely the fault of Lenovo engineers.

Since you are already soldering the memory, install the fastest one and make it work at a frequency of 7500, not 6400. This is a shame for Lenovo.

And since you can't get it to work at 7500, make 2 slots.

What if I tell you one of the reasons for soldering RAM today is speed of light being a bottleneck.