If they actually do this im getting a mac

Quote from: Truther on October 25, 2023, 21:02:42Thats fine tbh nobody really every uses the actual icon these days anyways, 99.9% of the time you access it w/ your keyboard w/ windows key. Co-Pilot actually seems pretty cool, I got the update for it recently and its relatively useful and non-intrustive. I think its a welcomed change.

How much did M$ pay you? this is an awful idea.

It appears that MS didn't learn their lesson from f**king with the UI in Windows 8.

Quotemay replace the Start button with the Copilot AI in Windows 12

They will be getting an heck of a backlash. Windows Vista will be a piece of cake.

Quote from: Benjamin Muller on October 26, 2023, 09:33:012, they cannot prevent those providers from forcing on them unwanted and unneeded features. [...]
I am using Windows 10 pro

I belong to this faction and continue with Windows 10 pro on my primary computer. My secondary computer has Windows 11 pro because newer hardware / software on it is better supported. However, on its GUI (functionality and design) and with its user interaction, Windows 11 continues the decline since Windows 7 having more unwanted properties than Windows 10:

- even more telemetry (can also be deactivated but requires even more configuration work)
- deactivating Defender has become essentially impossible and this will create a threat if Microsoft should try to impose its data theft Services conditions onto Windows some time
- taskbar with forced groups (this costs me quite some time; an Insider revision has not reached my regular system yet)
- desktop icon texts only with ugly shadows (since a recent update)
- ridiculously huge start menu (mine is as empty in Windows 11 as in Windows 10)
- clock without seconds (now fixed by an update)

MS is doing awesome job lately at trying to push people to Macs/Linux.

People have the nature to always try and use what will give them the most possibility to do things the way they see it, this results from their world view. They will spend a lot of money, time and energy to get what they think/hope will permit them to achieve this. In computing, the problems with this manner of doing, is two folds. 1, they are dependent on third parties to provide them with the material be it hardware and software. 2, they cannot prevent those providers from forcing on them unwanted and unneeded features.

If a end user has enough personality not to be dependent on fashion or on what others do, and has the ability to judge and analyze what is the most effective way to get done what he really needs and wants, staying stubbornly with older systems not only do not pose for them any problem, but it is really ideal for them. They are not blinded by sophisticated and glamorous presentations by the billion dollars companies making efforts to convinced them that what they use actually is obsolete, they will be able to do what they really ought to.

I am using Windows 10 pro on a fast hardware configuration, using software that do the job even if it is several versions old, and I try to block any attempts from third parties vendors from forcing on me their rubbish...

I have tried CoPilot, but using it for navigating isn't really desirable to me unless I can do it verbally.  Right now I can give Copilot verbal instructions, but then I have to confirm they via the keyboard... Waste of time.  I want an AI assistant I can converse with orally, without touching the computer.

Ok, I'll admit to being "old school" as I have Icon's for the programs and data storage devices I use on the desktop.

A few years ago I started blocking Microsoft domains at my LAN firewall. I grew tired of computers rebooting on their own (loosing lots of unfinished work in the process) and often adding unwanted 'features' or worse yet reinstalling bloatware I had deleted.

And NO, I don't use any 'Microsoft services', I use 'local accounts' on all my boxes and none of them have any need or requirement to 'venture out on the internet' other than possibly syncing the TOD.

Say what you wish about Apple products however the MBP I'm typing on (10.13.6!) actually LETS ME decide if wish to 'upgrade' its OS or NOT and functions just fine with a modern updated (non-Apple) browser. (much like I'm more than sure many MS products can and do)

I disabled copilot as soon as it was installed on my laptop.  Another feature Microsoft forced on me.  Just like EDGE which I can't get rid of even through registry edit or Windows Defender that can't be turned off either.  Again a Registry edit will not get rid of this bloatware.  Let me use the Browser of my choice and anti-virus/security software of my choice.  That's why the EU hit Microsoft with Anti trust fines and IE, Media Player had to be separated.
As for copilot.  Don't want or need it.  If it gets in my way I will find a way to disable it.  Self taught computer geek.

Thats fine tbh nobody really every uses the actual icon these days anyways, 99.9% of the time you access it w/ your keyboard w/ windows key. Co-Pilot actually seems pretty cool, I got the update for it recently and its relatively useful and non-intrustive. I think its a welcomed change.

I can hit windows key, type 3-4 first letters of an app and hit enter in 1 second.
Now what, I will click start button and type "my intent" aka prompt? "Please, could you open sublime text for me?"
Ridiculous.

I wonder how much time it will take to answer.

I have W11 in an office laptop and don't have adds. I also don't use Bing/Edge or any other MS service.

Good points Robert. And speaking of this part:

Quote from: RobertJasiek on October 25, 2023, 18:41:19Since EU and German data protection and privacy laws, basic and human rights prescribe Opt-in (not Opt-out) and minimally necessary data as the default...

I am not German but I always install German Windows (then switch to ENG) because there is basically not a single ad to be found inside of them (Win 10 at least, can't find a reason to use Win 11 after trying it for 4-5 months), like in the main Settings menu and so on. Other non-German variants have significantly more ads everywhere in the OS. So, probably, something similar will be done here although it's a move in a comically bad direction which is not surprising considering that it's coming from Microsoft.

Since EU and German data protection and privacy laws, basic and human rights prescribe Opt-in (not Opt-out) and minimally necessary data as the default, the one crucial question is whether Microsoft, its license / use / service conditions and Windows settings comply with the law or whether Microsoft becomes as criminal as Apple and managers will go to prison for years.

AI (or whatever service) is all fine and well if and only if always the enduser (not Microsoft as the company instead of the enduser) decides about non-use versus use and local-only versus global use.