Quote from: A on November 13, 2023, 23:31:53CPUs don't age worse than RAM

Quote from: A on November 13, 2023, 23:31:53I bought my last 64gb ram for $120. It has lasted me 2 computers.

This is literally CPU aging worse than RAM ) You throw away CPU earlier than you need more/other RAM.

Quote from: A on November 13, 2023, 23:31:53What fits me is 64gb ram, good luck getting that. Most including Macbook doesn't offer it.

I think latest Pros have 128Gb limit.

Quote from: A on November 13, 2023, 09:24:45Looks like we have two 'A's now. ))

CPUs age worse than RAM, so Macbooks are different paradigm. There's no point in upgrading RAM in 2018-2019 MBPs today. You just buy config fitting you and replace it on 4-6yr cycle. So soldered RAM doesn't matter.

Soldered SSDs and overall decisions related to SSDs are a different beast of course. Noone likes them.

I was A first >.>

CPUs don't age worse than RAM, the reason is simple. The real benefits of new CPUs is in new instruction sets, but most software doesn't support those instruction sets for years. The clock/ipc improvements are marginal for most workloads

What fits me is 64gb ram, good luck getting that. Most including Macbook doesn't offer it. Now what? Having more ram offers far better real life performance if you use it

And the cost of higher options is crazy, I bought my last 64gb ram for $120. It has lasted me 2 computers. Most will charge you more to get 16gb ram.

Well at least we agree that soldered ssds are a problem.

But there are also other things like wifi cards, I bought a 6e wifi card and installed it. Thanks to that I got better latency and less congestion on the 6ghz band

Quote from: A on November 13, 2023, 09:24:45CPUs age worse than RAM, so Macbooks are different paradigm. There's no point in upgrading RAM in 2018-2019 MBPs today. You just buy config fitting you and replace it on 4-6yr cycle. So soldered RAM doesn't matter.

It's not just about upgrading older machines. If it's replaceable, I can always buy a configuration with minimum RAM and then replace it with aftermarket modules, putting pressure on the manufacturer to offer competitive prices. This would be even more beneficial in Mac world as no-one else makes Macs. But there would be penalty. The tighter integration has benefits. Personally, I would take the penalty instead of paying €230 per 8 GB. That's obscene.

Looks like we have two 'A's now. ))

CPUs age worse than RAM, so Macbooks are different paradigm. There's no point in upgrading RAM in 2018-2019 MBPs today. You just buy config fitting you and replace it on 4-6yr cycle. So soldered RAM doesn't matter.

Soldered SSDs and overall decisions related to SSDs are a different beast of course. Noone likes them.

Quote from: Tech illiterate on November 13, 2023, 06:15:33May I ask why not? I literally don't understand. I've never had memory/ram ever fail me in a laptop. In my limited experience if it doesn't fail within the initial 1 year warranty period, chances are it never will.

Personally, I have zero issues with soldered RAM from my standpoint. Get plenty of it and you are good to go and soldered RAM is also significantly less frequent to fail than socketed. The problem here isn't even...

Quote from: Tech illiterate on November 13, 2023, 06:15:33You can barely upgrade anything in laptops these days, almost everything is constructed to not be modular -- So I'm not sure what is the point on taking a stand on this dying hill so to speak, it's a lost cause.

...this here. Although in many laptops of that price range, ThinkPads especially, you can freely and easily on your own remove and replace battery, WiFi/Bluetooth card, add/replace RAM and... storage. One can't ever upgrade the storage (SSD) on M-machines!, so any M-Mac or M-MacBook. If your SSD fails for any reason, and it's the component to wear very rapidly with professional workload and usage, you are 100% fu*ked as you can throw your perfectly functional machine away instead of just popping its bottom cover and replacing its dead SSD with a new one. Check this vid btw: https://youtu.be/0qbrLiGY4Cg

Quote from: Tech illiterate on November 13, 2023, 06:15:33Doesn't soldered memory take slightly less power too, increasing overall battery life/power efficiency?

Correct in almost all cases, yes.

Quote from: Tech illiterate on November 13, 2023, 06:15:33May I ask why not? I literally don't understand. I've never had memory/ram ever fail me in a laptop. In my limited experience if it doesn't fail within the initial 1 year warranty period, chances are it never will.

Because then I can buy 64gb ram at fraction of the price and generally repurposed them in my next laptop, the amount I save is enough to buy another laptop.

That said I did have a memory chip fail on me once.

QuoteYou can barely upgrade anything in laptops these days, almost everything is constructed to not be modular -- So I'm not sure what is the point on taking a stand on this dying hill so to speak, it's a lost cause.

There are still laptops that let you upgrade ram, storage, wifi card and etc. Of course it is becoming rarer and rarer these days, unless well Framework takes off.

If I am going to give up, then I don't even need an expensive laptop anymore. I'll just get the cheapest laptop with decent screen and keyboard, a desktop pc which has much better specs than a laptop and remote in. It'll still be cheaper. I get fairly good latency on 5g these days

QuoteNot to mention, by the time you wish to upgrade memory years later down the line, usually there's much faster RAM available in many cases built on standards your current laptop mobo doesn't even support. You're better off just getting an entirely new laptop.

The real life benefits is marginal at best

QuoteIn addition to this, higher bandwidth memory modules which is important for the increasingly more powerful APUs/iGPU's are only released in soldered form factor. (e.g. LPDDR5X)

If you care about gpu performance on a laptop, you'd be better off with the built in vram on the GPU, it is more optimized for graphics workload

QuoteDoesn't soldered memory take slightly less power too, increasing overall battery life/power efficiency?

It used to, but with each generation of DDR, the gap has been shrinking. The 5% difference is margin of error considering

QuoteThe only possible argument I can see is, that "it allows me to buy an 8gb laptop for cheap, then upgrade it for cheap upgrade it to 32gb for the same it'd of cost me to buy the 16 gb configuration from the company" ..but often companies (not apple but others) these days are just upgrading to higher capacity ram amount for free during sales so yeh.

They also don't offer top end options like 64gb unless you opt for upgrading other specs. So you are often forced to get more expensive models and top end cpus and gpus when you may not even need them just because you want more ram.

Quote from: A on November 13, 2023, 01:43:19I wouldn't buy either, or any laptop that has soldered ram and memory

May I ask why not? I literally don't understand. I've never had memory/ram ever fail me in a laptop. In my limited experience if it doesn't fail within the initial 1 year warranty period, chances are it never will.

You can barely upgrade anything in laptops these days, almost everything is constructed to not be modular -- So I'm not sure what is the point on taking a stand on this dying hill so to speak, it's a lost cause.

Not to mention, by the time you wish to upgrade memory years later down the line, usually there's much faster RAM available in many cases built on standards your current laptop mobo doesn't even support. You're better off just getting an entirely new laptop.

In addition to this, higher bandwidth memory modules which is important for the increasingly more powerful APUs/iGPU's are only released in soldered form factor. (e.g. LPDDR5X)

Doesn't soldered memory take slightly less power too, increasing overall battery life/power efficiency?

The only possible argument I can see is, that "it allows me to buy an 8gb laptop for cheap, then upgrade it for cheap upgrade it to 32gb for the same it'd of cost me to buy the 16 gb configuration from the company" ..but often companies (not apple but others) these days are just upgrading to higher capacity ram amount for free during sales so yeh.

Quote from: tinga3633 on November 12, 2023, 16:15:50Could you please name some apps which run only in single-core mode?

It's not like there's a single-core mode, but certain tasks depend heavily on the single-core performance.

Web Browsing is heavily dependant, and there's a correlation between single-core performance and the performance in speedometer, jetstream, and other benchmarks for that kind of tasks.

I wouldn't buy either, or any laptop that has soldered ram and memory

Could you please name some apps which run only in single-core mode?

Yeah, it's a no-brainer, M2Pro MBP > base M3 MBP. Nice catch.