Let me remind you that wholesale prices for 3D TLC memory in November 2023 are $35-38 per 1TB, depending on the grade. LPDDR5 7500 costs $60-70 for 32GB in bulk.

By the way, the review shows the speed of RAM with random access in 4k blocks - where you can clearly see that the fastest pci-e 5.0 ssds are 100 times slower, which means 100 times slower exchange with the page file than running an application in RAM.

Only fools buy laptops without 32GB+ today.

Quote from: George on November 09, 2023, 06:48:10Considering not to many years ago a mere 1GB was a HUGE amount of memory the reality is that there are very FEW applications and data sets that can use larger amounts of memory let alone REQUIRE IT to be productive.

My very old MSI laptop is already 15+ years old, but even there it already had 4GB DDR2 out of the box (it simply doesn't support it anymore) and I didn't have enough of them in 2011 for my purposes.

Today, a laptop costing more than $900 without 32GB in dual-channel mode is already a laughingstock.

I know from my experience with a Macbook Air M1 that it could use swap memory more then I would like and quite a bit of it. Like 2Gb of swap at times, so don't tell me its just like having 16Gb on a Windows PC. But the fact a Macbook Pro at $1600 has same RAM capacity as a $1000 Macbook Air is just Apple playing another game where you pay the Apple tax to get the RAM you need. Of course the other obvious negative of buying too little RAM is that there is absolutely no upgrade path. If you buy that base Macbook Pro and realize months later you need more, your only solution is buy another Macbook Pro with more RAM. This is where Apple thinks you will go or you will pay the extra $200 when you buy the first Macbook Pro. We wonder no more how Apple makes all its profits.

There is no av1 encoding support in the new Apple M3 series of chips only decoding is supported.

Also 8GB of memory is not an issue the issue is price. They can make a laptop with 2GB RAM if it is so much optimised and I am sure someone will find use of it but not everybody does same work. Some people requires lots of RAM, I mean a lot. There are systems with 2TB of RAM, because if someone does simulation, rendering of a large scenario then it will surely require lots of RAM to even start processing.

And those who are defending 8GB can ask Apple themselves that why they are making higher memory configuration if 8GB is enough.

Quote from: George on November 09, 2023, 06:48:10we are talking 8GB of memory!!

Considering not to many years ago a mere 1GB was a HUGE amount of memory the reality is that there are very FEW applications and data sets that can use larger amounts of memory let alone REQUIRE IT to be productive.

I use and need 64 GB daily to be productive. With 8 GB, I could not even start my software.

Quote from: George on November 09, 2023, 06:48:10Considering not to many years ago a mere 1GB was a HUGE amount of memory

What is "not too many years ago"? My laptop has 8 GB of RAM, and it is more than eigth years old.

Quote from: George on November 09, 2023, 06:48:10the reality is that there are very FEW applications and data sets that can use larger amounts of memory let alone REQUIRE IT to be productive.

Did you even look at how much memory a simple browswer tab is using?

If I want to process 6 audio streams for 5.1 audio in Audacity on widndows I need 16GB, because all the data (in non compressed form) need to be in RAM to be able to work with them effectively.
I would like to see that scenario on Mac with 8GB and how 'analogous' would it be when the data would be cached from hard drive because they dont fit in RAM and how the constant compressing and decompressing affect performance.

This entire topic is VERY comical.

Forgetting for the moment the nonsense about 'unified memory' the simple facts are:

1 - that MACOS (OSX) uses memory much more efficiently then other OS's might.
2 - we are talking 8GB of memory!!

Considering not to many years ago a mere 1GB was a HUGE amount of memory the reality is that there are very FEW applications and data sets that can use larger amounts of memory let alone REQUIRE IT to be productive.

And YES, the whole CPU speed/RAM/Storage nickel&dime upgrade thing has been around as long as there have been personal computers.

haha
8 bit = 16 bit
x86 = x64
and.. 1000$ = 2000$
then ok)))

Quote from: mirancar on November 09, 2023, 00:33:21windows out of the box does not support HEIC images.

Except it does since they switched to a new Photos app a couple of months back.

Quote from: mirancar on November 09, 2023, 00:33:21you must install some windows store plugin.

Yes that's true for the old Photos app, now called Photos Legacy.

Quote from: mirancar on November 09, 2023, 00:33:21many people dont care what that is and will just assume "doesn't work". And even then the experience is slow when having 1000 heic images in a folder instead of standard jpegs because there is no hardware decoding (on latest nvidia rtx 4000 gpu!). this scenario is very usual by just transfering phone photos.

Never had an issue of it being slow with 108 MP HEIC/HEIF images taken with my gf's Galaxy Note20 Ultra, talking about hundreds of photos at once. Quick Sync doing its job just fine as its purpose is not just video but also image decoding; it converts the files to thumbnails and transcodes them when viewing them, all fast and snappy. Never tried with my 3060 though.

Quote from: mirancar on November 09, 2023, 00:33:21and please learn to read carefully. my first exact words are as follows: "for example my newer iphone goes much further real world usage of storage with 128gb than an older phone with the same 128gb. "

I have to learn to read carefully while you read "Neenyah" as "an0n" (the other person who was replying to you)? Ok.

Quote from: mirancar on November 09, 2023, 00:33:21i dont care about your newer redmi phone, never even mentioned android,

Yeah, but he did:

Quote from: an0n on November 08, 2023, 17:05:06Do you think PC doesn't use the same? H265 encoder also has long been introduced in android since early 2015, almost every single chip sold now has natively support both encoding and decoding it. H265 play or process in any kind memory, use the same amount of space. 200mb memory use to play or process h265 video is the same whether you do in android, mac, Linux, or Windows.

And you replied to him:

Quote from: mirancar on November 08, 2023, 17:29:16no, they do not use the same. yes for h265 but NO for HEIC images which is significant!

So he included Android, you adamantly replied with "no", even bolded the whole part while you ignored that all and kept talking about just Windows, I mentioned Android phone which I use (and it's a very cheap phone so it's not that HEIC is reserved just for flagships) and now you don't care about (my) Android? Ok, lol.

Let me repeat your own words please:

Quote from: mirancar on November 09, 2023, 00:33:21and please learn to read carefully

☝

Cheers.

Quote from: Neenyah on November 08, 2023, 19:57:17

Quote from: mirancar on November 08, 2023, 17:29:16

Quote from: an0n on November 08, 2023, 17:05:06Do you think PC doesn't use the same? H265 encoder also has long been introduced in android since early 2015, almost every single chip sold now has natively support both encoding and decoding it. H265 play or process in any kind memory, use the same amount of space. 200mb memory use to play or process h265 video is the same whether you do in android, mac, Linux, or Windows.

no, they do not use the same. yes for h265 but NO for HEIC images which is significant!
actually it's really unbelievable at how poor the support on windows maschines is for such things.

I have a cheap Redmi 10C phone with Android 13. Works great, I shoot photos in HEIC (with its stock camera) and videos in H.265 (also with its stock camera). No issues at all. Both HEIC and H.265 are fully supported in Windows so no idea what is the meaning of "actually it's really unbelievable at how poor the support on windows maschines is for such things.", lol.

windows out of the box does not support HEIC images. you must install some windows store plugin. many people dont care what that is and will just assume "doesn't work". And even then the experience is slow when having 1000 heic images in a folder instead of standard jpegs because there is no hardware decoding (on latest nvidia rtx 4000 gpu!). this scenario is very usual by just transfering phone photos.

and please learn to read carefully. my first exact words are as follows: "for example my newer iphone goes much further real world usage of storage with 128gb than an older phone with the same 128gb. "
i dont care about your newer redmi phone, never even mentioned android, it's all just about "the new 128gb goes further than the old 128gb". in similar fashion "the new 8gb feels like the old 16gb". for the most part, this is actually true

Quote from: NikoB on November 09, 2023, 00:11:47

Quote from: Neenyah on November 08, 2023, 19:57:17I have a cheap Redmi 10C phone with Android 13. Works great, I shoot photos in HEIC (with its stock camera) and videos in H.265 (also with its stock camera). No issues at all.

You have one big problem - your video recording is technically and qualitatively outdated. My old smartphone from 2015 shoots 4k@30fps 48Mbps in H264/192kbps aac audio and I can bet that the video from my old smartphone is many times better in terms of sharpness than from your 2022. In addition, 4k gives you a free zoom x2 in fhd. =)

Yeah, I'm devastated. I'll have to take my old LG G2 out (from 2013) that's capable to do 60 Mbps 1080p 60 fps with 192 kbps audio and true 4K 30 fps ~40 Mbps with GCam. Its battery is crap now but if I have one big problem to share a random clips to my friends over IMs...

Edit: Oh yeah, it also has great OIS and fast autofocus.

Quote from: Neenyah on November 08, 2023, 19:57:17I have a cheap Redmi 10C phone with Android 13. Works great, I shoot photos in HEIC (with its stock camera) and videos in H.265 (also with its stock camera). No issues at all.

You have one big problem - your video recording is technically and qualitatively outdated. My old smartphone from 2015 shoots 4k@30fps 48Mbps in H264/192kbps aac audio and I can bet that the video from my old smartphone is many times better in terms of sharpness than from your 2022. In addition, 4k gives you a free zoom x2 in fhd. =)

Apple is strong in intoxicating the lower "middle class", and not in the level of components. ))

Quote from: mirancar on November 08, 2023, 17:29:16

Quote from: an0n on November 08, 2023, 17:05:06Do you think PC doesn't use the same? H265 encoder also has long been introduced in android since early 2015, almost every single chip sold now has natively support both encoding and decoding it. H265 play or process in any kind memory, use the same amount of space. 200mb memory use to play or process h265 video is the same whether you do in android, mac, Linux, or Windows.

no, they do not use the same. yes for h265 but NO for HEIC images which is significant!
actually it's really unbelievable at how poor the support on windows maschines is for such things.

I have a cheap Redmi 10C phone with Android 13. Works great, I shoot photos in HEIC (with its stock camera) and videos in H.265 (also with its stock camera). No issues at all. Both HEIC and H.265 are fully supported in Windows so no idea what is the meaning of "actually it's really unbelievable at how poor the support on windows maschines is for such things.", lol.