Was the presence of temporal dithering assessed?

480hz is not fine for everybody. If it's fine for you that's great. But don't judge other people with the same standards/tolerance for PWM.

Quoteo not sure why some are blowing the whole pwm out of proportion

Because it's a yes or no factor for some people.
In the past I chose iPhone 8, later iPhone 1 (basic LCD version) SOLELY because of flicker-free screen.
Now I can't replace my iPhone for anything newer.
There should be at least one model in the lineup with flicker-free screen. I wish iPhone SE (4th gen) was based on iPhone 11 (with LCD flicker-free screen).

Apple nowadays pays more attention to stupid emojis than health problems OLED iPhone cause for some percentage of people.

*Forgot to mention, It's fine for me because I use my phones at around 80% brightness (which this phone then uses 480hz pwm on). If you're the kinda user who uses their phone on lower brightness setting (76% or below), then yeah, can see how 240 hz could be an issue as that is terribly headache inducing.

I am sensitive to PWM and honestly, almost 500 hz pwm is fine. Yes, it's not ideal, and would be great if it was much higher or none at all. But good luck finding such a mythical phone OLED panel, it literally almost does not exist. And I'm not going back to IPS, OLED displays are just far superior now in almost every other metric -- especially in the most common use cases for a phone. IMO, far bigger problems exist with this phone (price, lack of charger, etc), so not sure why some are blowing the whole pwm out of proportion..

Pwm flicker is the deal breaker for me

Quote from: Alex P. on October 04, 2023, 11:18:48

Quote from: Toortle on October 04, 2023, 08:08:27

Quote from: Alex P. on October 04, 2023, 07:13:15

Quote from: Toortle on October 04, 2023, 04:37:40

Quote from: Alex P. on October 04, 2023, 04:26:58How is it that LG is able to make all of its OLED TVs with basically zero flicker (per rtings.com) but Apple, with all it's R&D resources and might as the most valuable company
in the world (as of 2023) is not able to do so in it's flagship phone?

You mean Samsung can't? Samsung is Apple's vendor for OLED screens for their iPhones.

Apple's vendors make components based on Apple's specifications, not the vendor's. The problem is that Apple accepts these displays from the various manufacturers it purchases iPhone displays from (it's not just Samsung making them). It's a display lottery.

Samsung is their only vendor for displays: macrumors.com/2023/09/12/iphone-15-oled-display-orders-dominated-by-samsung/

I agree with the rest of your comment.

This was an article about the pro models. From the article you link:

"LG Display, which is supplying OLED panels for both iPhone 15 Pro models..."

From the article:


"LG Display, which is supplying OLED panels for both iPhone 15 Pro models, has received conditional approval only for the smaller ‌iPhone 15 Pro‌, with formal approval for the ‌iPhone 15 Pro‌ Max still expectedthis month. That leaves Samsung as the only current supplier of OLED panels for all four ‌iPhone 15‌ models, with its production volume a lot bigger than originally planned."

You all forget that TV's minimum brightness is much higher than that of monitors and smartphone screens. In addition, if anyone doesn't know, OLED TV screens are 100% defective in terms of banding - this is a long-known fact - when filled with a complex gradient, stripes are clearly visible, especially in dynamics, i.e. the actual color rendering of OLED TV is much worse than that of top-end projectors with reflective panels, like Sony/JVC, despite the fact that they do not have nearly the same black level. Anti-flicker circuits significantly worsen the dynamic range of OLED panels and lead to their rapid burnout.

Quote from: Toortle on October 04, 2023, 08:08:27

Quote from: Alex P. on October 04, 2023, 07:13:15

Quote from: Toortle on October 04, 2023, 04:37:40

Quote from: Alex P. on October 04, 2023, 04:26:58How is it that LG is able to make all of its OLED TVs with basically zero flicker (per rtings.com) but Apple, with all it's R&D resources and might as the most valuable company
in the world (as of 2023) is not able to do so in it's flagship phone?

You mean Samsung can't? Samsung is Apple's vendor for OLED screens for their iPhones.

Apple's vendors make components based on Apple's specifications, not the vendor's. The problem is that Apple accepts these displays from the various manufacturers it purchases iPhone displays from (it's not just Samsung making them). It's a display lottery.

Samsung is their only vendor for displays: macrumors.com/2023/09/12/iphone-15-oled-display-orders-dominated-by-samsung/

I agree with the rest of your comment.

This was an article about the pro models. From the article you link:

"LG Display, which is supplying OLED panels for both iPhone 15 Pro models..."

Quote from: Alex P. on October 04, 2023, 07:13:15

Quote from: Toortle on October 04, 2023, 04:37:40

Quote from: Alex P. on October 04, 2023, 04:26:58How is it that LG is able to make all of its OLED TVs with basically zero flicker (per rtings.com) but Apple, with all it's R&D resources and might as the most valuable company
in the world (as of 2023) is not able to do so in it's flagship phone?

You mean Samsung can't? Samsung is Apple's vendor for OLED screens for their iPhones.

Apple's vendors make components based on Apple's specifications, not the vendor's. The problem is that Apple accepts these displays from the various manufacturers it purchases iPhone displays from (it's not just Samsung making them). It's a display lottery.

Samsung is their only vendor for displays: macrumors.com/2023/09/12/iphone-15-oled-display-orders-dominated-by-samsung/

I agree with the rest of your comment.

Quote from: Toortle on October 04, 2023, 04:37:40

Quote from: Alex P. on October 04, 2023, 04:26:58How is it that LG is able to make all of its OLED TVs with basically zero flicker (per rtings.com) but Apple, with all it's R&D resources and might as the most valuable company
in the world (as of 2023) is not able to do so in it's flagship phone?

You mean Samsung can't? Samsung is Apple's vendor for OLED screens for their iPhones.

Apple's vendors make components based on Apple's specifications, not the vendor's. The problem is that Apple accepts these displays from the various manufacturers it purchases iPhone displays from (it's not just Samsung making them). It's a display lottery.

Article states reverse wireless charging, which is not true. The phone only has reverse wired charge.

Quote from: Alex P. on October 04, 2023, 04:26:58How is it that LG is able to make all of its OLED TVs with basically zero flicker (per rtings.com) but Apple, with all it's R&D resources and might as the most valuable company
in the world (as of 2023) is not able to do so in it's flagship phone?

You mean Samsung can't? Samsung is Apple's vendor for OLED screens for their iPhones.

How is it that LG is able to make all of its OLED TVs with basically zero flicker (per rtings.com) but Apple, with all it's R&D resources and might as the most valuable company in the world (as of 2023) is not able to do so in it's flagship phone?

Apple engineers if you are reading this, which I know you are - I have a zero flicker non-OLED iPhone 11 that I am dying to upgrade to a newer model, but refuse to do so because of the flicker of these screens in recent years.

Even if you (Apple) can't make it completely flicker free, at least make it a reasonable level 1,000-2,000Hz and I would consider upgrading. 200-500Hz is unacceptable.

PWM flickering = no buy!