Quote from: USA informatic on August 15, 2023, 13:14:00All of us who are discussing here know that the 7000 Series is divided into Zen 2,3,4, so if you are going to buy a laptop make sure it is Zen 4 7040 with an ORANGE sticker like this Spectacular work by ACER, the second ultrabook that comes with EVERYTHING that any buyer wants Acer Swift Go 14 with AMD Zen 4 7040 Phoenix with: DDR5 + HDMI 2.1 + USB 4.0 + RDNA 3 + OLED screen with a Very good price and it will be a BEST SELLER €1,000

OLED panels are very harmful to the eyes with low frequency PWM. And very unstable in terms of color accuracy (hardware calibrated almost always dE>2). With 1/2 IPS resource to burnout. And most often they have a lower color resolution compared to IPS with the same official resolution.

Aside from gaming and video, AMOLED is a completely unusable technology for work laptops today. Forget about it.

All of us who are discussing here know that the 7000 Series is divided into Zen 2,3,4, so if you are going to buy a laptop make sure it is Zen 4 7040 with an ORANGE sticker like this Spectacular work by ACER, the second ultrabook that comes with EVERYTHING that any buyer wants Acer Swift Go 14 with AMD Zen 4 7040 Phoenix with: DDR5 + HDMI 2.1 + USB 4.0 + RDNA 3 + OLED screen with a Very good price and it will be a BEST SELLER €1,000

Quote from: paviko on August 14, 2023, 12:31:20

Quote from: Hifihedgehog on August 13, 2023, 18:34:24

Quote from: paviko on August 13, 2023, 12:02:18But where are laptops with newest Ryzen 7040 (Zen 4 4nm)? Asus ROG Ally with Zen 4 4nm showed there is no improvement vs old Zen 2 7nm. It performs almost the same as extremely old Zen 2 Steam Deck! What is worst no power usage improvement.

False. Go check the NotebookCheck review and throw this trash comment in the garbage where it belongs.

Here you go:
www.notebookcheck.net / AMD-Ryzen-9-7940HS-analysis-Zen4-Phoenix-is-ideally-as-efficient-as-Apple.713395.0.html

6800U (Zen 3, 6nm): 55 Points/Watt (ST) and 232 Points/Watt (MT)
7940HS (Zen 4, 4nm): 46.9 Points/Watt (ST) and 190.3 Points/Watt (MT)

Comparison to Steam Deck (with Zen 2 7nm) you can find at tomshardware. No improvement with iGPU, same performance and same battery life.

You shouldn't compare CPUs of different range and different default Watt. Just look at your link, where you can see 7735HS(6800HS refresh) outperforming 6800U and 7940HS performance per watt. But scrolling down a bit shows a graph where 7940HS outperforms 7735HS in every case when the power consumption are equal.

Quote from: RobertJasiek on August 14, 2023, 12:46:25NicoB, you do not need a theory of Intel bribing OEMs but too few / bad ports in AMD devices can simply be a case of your "OEMs save the last penny in R&D".

Anti-monopol authorities are not actually blind but under-powered both in the bureacracies and politicians, such as the EU Commission. It takes seconds to become creative with new monopolistic practices but years to proof and punish each. Therefore, related legislation must be harsher, such as "out of business in case of repeated violation".

Not only leftists but also rightists threaten democracies.

Democracy is the power of the majority, violent power over the minority. As history has shown, Hitler came to power in a democracy. And Putin too. At the same time, Western countries agreed that these were democracies.

Democracy is essentially meaningless if there is no civic (in a positive sense - and therefore critically thinking, sane and instantly cutting down on the attempts of bastards to penetrate power, withdrawing them immediately as soon as they violate election promises that educated and critically thinking citizens considered feasible, that is, .e. recalling politicians in a clear and quick procedure, deliberately refusing to fulfill their direct duties to citizens). It is also meaningless (profanity and demagogy) if the elections are not direct and anonymous. They must be direct and non-anonymous - everyone in society must be responsible for the choice made, then the choice will be made much more difficult and tougher in terms of consequences for rogues in power on the part of the population.

Now all over the world, including the USA, instead of a really working power of citizens, there is a puppet props with populists at the head and a population that is not responsible for its choice, until finally the country comes to a complete collapse. Up to this point, everyone pretends that they have nothing to do with it. Only when their personal skin and the right to life are affected do they suddenly begin to remember the responsibility for the once stupid choice made by the populists (and their shadow teams).

Do you think that in Europe and the USA (or the "West" in general) the majority of the population is now very different from authoritarian countries? Not at all. Since 2020, it has clearly shown that it is ready to sacrifice freedom and rights in violation of the Constitutions for the sake of illusory and false security, out of its own stupidity. And what did they end up with?

And Hi-Tech, as the most diversified and most globalized chain of division of labor, is the very first to feel bad trends and changes in the global world order. Hi-tech is like a litmus test, the first to show that everything is bad with societies and economies. And the same "democracy". The whole high-tech problem is a reflection of global problems and imbalances.

If the population were smarter, they would understand this, but alas, the majority wander in intellectual darkness and ignorance all their lives.

NicoB, you do not need a theory of Intel bribing OEMs but too few / bad ports in AMD devices can simply be a case of your "OEMs save the last penny in R&D".

Anti-monopol authorities are not actually blind but under-powered both in the bureacracies and politicians, such as the EU Commission. It takes seconds to become creative with new monopolistic practices but years to proof and punish each. Therefore, related legislation must be harsher, such as "out of business in case of repeated violation".

Not only leftists but also rightists threaten democracies.

Quote from: Hifihedgehog on August 13, 2023, 18:34:24

Quote from: paviko on August 13, 2023, 12:02:18But where are laptops with newest Ryzen 7040 (Zen 4 4nm)? Asus ROG Ally with Zen 4 4nm showed there is no improvement vs old Zen 2 7nm. It performs almost the same as extremely old Zen 2 Steam Deck! What is worst no power usage improvement.

False. Go check the NotebookCheck review and throw this trash comment in the garbage where it belongs.

Here you go:
www.notebookcheck.net / AMD-Ryzen-9-7940HS-analysis-Zen4-Phoenix-is-ideally-as-efficient-as-Apple.713395.0.html

6800U (Zen 3, 6nm): 55 Points/Watt (ST) and 232 Points/Watt (MT)
7940HS (Zen 4, 4nm): 46.9 Points/Watt (ST) and 190.3 Points/Watt (MT)

Comparison to Steam Deck (with Zen 2 7nm) you can find at tomshardware. No improvement with iGPU, same performance and same battery life.

AMD is the same antitrust pad for Intel as Mozilla (which is kept from disappearing by the money of the main sponsor and at the same time "competitor") is for Google. Do not even hope for an increase in the supply of consumer SoCs from AMD, because in reality, AMD supplies are falling year by year, as well as Intel's market share is growing back, despite the fact that they allegedly have less technologically advanced products on a more outdated technical process.

Moreover, greedy laptop manufacturers themselves deliberately sabotage new features in models with AMD. Probably due to conspiracy/pressure from Intel.
Even where it is clearly possible to provide better port options, they intentionally make the port selection worse than the Intel versions. This is a clear sabotage of AMD products.

And AMD itself is apparently not at all interested in the laptop market, focusing on the server and console market. Because they themselves admitted that they deliberately hold back the supply of new SoC series, for the sake of selling off the old one. With this overall approach (including the worst port options on AMD laptops), it's not surprising that their market share in laptops has started to fall again year on year.

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We live in an era of market monopolies and oligopolies, as well as imperialism, when large companies owning an overwhelming global share are used for geopolitical interests, while the authorities of such countries deliberately turn a blind eye to anti-market methods and business conditions. Thus, the antimonopoly authorities are ordered to essentially keep quiet.

At the same time, developing countries with a more backward society a priori cannot imagine any alternative, because they simply do not have sufficient human capital of this level and never will if society does not develop in a civil manner. The collapse of the USSR empire (on the ruins of which another dangerous monster grew up, as it grew after the defeat of Germany in World War I on the growth of violent populism (search for simple ways understandable to poorly educated segments of the population) and populist politicians, which resulted in World War II) proved this on practice, 31 years ago. China will eventually follow suit, although it will take some time. In addition, the West itself is now mired in leftist populism, destroying itself from within. Well, the question is that everything is going to a global war. Because the anger of sections of the population that find themselves on the sidelines of life is easiest to channel to external enemies, declaring all those who disagree with this as enemies of society and "foreign agents". Everything repeats itself in history, only technology and fast communications speed up everything many times over than it was before.

It won't get any better in the next 30-50 years, you can be sure of that. It will only get worse and worse in terms of the progress of civilization in scientific and technical terms and socially. Conflicts and a general drop in the level of education of the world's population, especially in developed countries, are the reason for this. As well as growing aggression due to increasing population and competition for the resources of the planet. The next dark age of mankind has come due to the aggravation of contradictions, the quiet time has ended for a fruitful well-coordinated global creativity. Whether humanity will be able to go through this new dark era of the neo-medieval age and not perish this time, the question is open...

Soon the population of even developed countries will think not about how to buy the latest fashionable gadget and have advanced fun from boredom, but about how to simply survive in the rapidly changing conditions of accelerating stagflation and conflicts from all sides.

Quote from: Poster on August 13, 2023, 13:32:12It is actually refreshing to finally see a notebookcheck writer express their disgust with what is happening with specifically the AMD Apu debacle.
I've even mentioned before how HP has been doing this same practice in all their lines sans one. In their upper midrange Envy line they use the b-r 7030 for three model generations (2021-5700/5800; 2022-5825 and 2023 7030). Only their elitebook 805 series use the current Zen4 tech for their entire laptop portfolio

I've stated before that I'm of the opinion that either:
The manufacturers are still in bed with Intel
Or
AMD is going full fledged Intel route refreshing old tech as new to milk prifits from consumers because they reached continued success from Zen 2 until now
Only a few laptops are trickling out now with the Zen4 700m Apus but they are capped at 16GB soldered RAM and with some other features missing apart from their Intel counterparts.

Intel is to release their 14th gen CPUs with graphics and other features to rival AMD's current offerings this year and manufacturers will be quick to release products right after announcement. Why would a consumer or company change from Intel to AMD at that point when intel can finally compete and possibly outperform AMDs offerings? So then the cycle begins again with manufacturers releasing Intel's 14th gen offerings quickly by end of year and AMD zen 4 will be the 'new' 2024 models instead.

Couldn't agree more. I am hanging out for an AMD 7040 (or better) chip with 780M graphics. ATM the only way for me to buy a 7040 or higher is to also pay for a discrete graphics card which I don't want because I don't play games, and I want a lower weight at a reasonable price. Shame AMD.

I agree with Poster. Nice to see some much-required disgust from notebookcheck staff, and not directed at the readers.

Next gen Intel & AMD chips will have an AI focus which could scrapheap a lot of hardware. AMD should only be selling 7030s in really cheap systems. But that market is saturated.

It's not easy, it takes billion$ to create a chip fab, and a few years later it's out of date. That's a tough reality. But we're consumers. We're not here to talk about "IP" and "client" computers and other VAR lingo that's creeping into reviews like we're all wanna-be Intels or enjoy being apologists. No, we're here to find out how to get the most capable, least compromised system for our money, hopefully generating the least e-waste and hoarded IP BS along the way.

Quote from: paviko on August 13, 2023, 12:02:18But where are laptops with newest Ryzen 7040 (Zen 4 4nm)? Asus ROG Ally with Zen 4 4nm showed there is no improvement vs old Zen 2 7nm. It performs almost the same as extremely old Zen 2 Steam Deck! What is worst no power usage improvement.

False. Go check the NotebookCheck review and throw this trash comment in the garbage where it belongs.

Absolutely agree and it's such a hassle to search for laptops that contain new chips due to this nomenclature.

I also refuse to buy anything older than Zen 3+ because of the lack of technologies mentioned in the article + no RDNA 2 APU.

Another thing, AMD would make the argument that the 7020/30/35 Apus are their prime optimisation and highly efficient. Reading the reviews ilaltely of some of the laptops bthat use these Apu's, clearly shows that if a manufacturer is lackadaisical with optimising the power, idle and cooling aspects then it doesn't matter how optimal their Apus are.
I would also just point out briefly that advancements in battery tech for laptops have being atrocious and this also leads to these poor numbers in battery life

It is actually refreshing to finally see a notebookcheck writer express their disgust with what is happening with specifically the AMD Apu debacle.
I've even mentioned before how HP has been doing this same practice in all their lines sans one. In their upper midrange Envy line they use the b-r 7030 for three model generations (2021-5700/5800; 2022-5825 and 2023 7030). Only their elitebook 805 series use the current Zen4 tech for their entire laptop portfolio

I've stated before that I'm of the opinion that either:
The manufacturers are still in bed with Intel
Or
AMD is going full fledged Intel route refreshing old tech as new to milk prifits from consumers because they reached continued success from Zen 2 until now
Only a few laptops are trickling out now with the Zen4 700m Apus but they are capped at 16GB soldered RAM and with some other features missing apart from their Intel counterparts.

Intel is to release their 14th gen CPUs with graphics and other features to rival AMD's current offerings this year and manufacturers will be quick to release products right after announcement. Why would a consumer or company change from Intel to AMD at that point when intel can finally compete and possibly outperform AMDs offerings? So then the cycle begins again with manufacturers releasing Intel's 14th gen offerings quickly by end of year and AMD zen 4 will be the 'new' 2024 models instead.

But where are laptops with newest Ryzen 7040 (Zen 4 4nm)? Asus ROG Ally with Zen 4 4nm showed there is no improvement vs old Zen 2 7nm. It performs almost the same as extremely old Zen 2 Steam Deck! What is worst no power usage improvement.