Quote from: Ish on July 14, 2023, 17:19:42Imagine being such an apologist for a billionaire that you actually believe this BS, lmao... you'd be doing the same thing for Trump in the 80s and 90s. You seem that gullible.

You've been so blinded by hatred you've become unable to read basic english. I clearly said I was alive during the 80s and 90s, and I clearly said I saw Trump as a con.

QuoteHe came to the States with the wealth of his family to stand on, hate to break it to you. He's about as self-made as Trump.

Sorry, you are wrong. Again, Trump got millions from his dead, Musk came with almost nothing.

QuoteFunny you talk about "hatred" when Musk is the one giving a platform to white nationalists and spewing their conspiracy theories... that's a "genius" for you? Lmao... you're diluted.

I am no fan of conspiracies either, but so what? The constitution's freedom of speech also gives people the ability to voice their opinions. If you don't like them, then bring it up with the people making them as they should be responsible for their own statements.

Personally, in my opinion Twitter has always been toxic and will always be. That's why I don't use it.

QuoteWho cares about a private company putting people in space and that idiotic vanity pissing match we had to witness some dumbass billionaires engaging in? Are you a billionaire? If not, you have no chance of ever being able to afford it. The only way non-billionaires are getting into space are as indentured servants to scum like Musk. Besides, things are pretty f'ed up here on earth... we have no business being in space until we fix those issues. Musk's wealth could go a long way in addressing those issues, but he's too much of malignant narcissist and as such incapable of empathy.

Again, time to climb out of his arse there guy and see him for who he really is and quit believing the BS about him. He's not self-made, he's not a genius, and lacks the "actual understanding on the topics"... speaking with confidence and using buzzwords does not equate to actual understanding: Narcissism 101 for the gullible such as yourself.

Your logic is flawed, humans must work on going to space. No matter how much we take care of earth, it's going to become inhabitable at one point either via naturally like sun expanding to simply overpopulation. Both taking care of the earth and being able to go into space are both needed for the survival of humanity, in parallel. The notion of one must wait for the other is ridiculously silly. Working in parallel is always more efficient.

And end of the day, he has done a lot more for the Earth than most billionares or even you ever had despite being a narcissist. If not for him, most car manufacturers would still be peddling ICE cars as the future. And he has done a lot to get solar accessible in the early days when it was much more expensive than today. Even today, Tesla offers solar at lowest cost in US.

Even his turn to the right while you may not like it has some net positive. Before republicans were anti-EVs completely due to politics. With Musk's fallout with the left, republicans are actually buying Tesla EVs. Which means we are closer to addressing the climate change issue.

Quote from: A on July 14, 2023, 07:03:55While he was born in a wealthy family, he disowned his father and came to America by himself without his dads money, aka the money he made was his own. A sharp contrast from Trump who got all his money from his dad.

I don't need to apologize for anyone, but that doesn't make me blind. Obsession and hatred both blind people and you are no less blinded than those obsessed people. As for your 80s and 90s statement about Trump, quite a ridiculous one considering I was well alive back then and thought he was a con artist.

There are plenty of billionaires that throw money around and get nowhere due to them not knowing any better, Musk may have a lot of issues as a human being, especially with all the fame getting to him. But his success rate and actual understanding on the topics speak volume. First private company to launch both things to space and people to space, despite much richer Bezos failing and all the issues Boeing had in achieving same. First successful new US automaker in a century despite dozens failing. Not to mention the other stuff he made like Zip2 and Paypal

Imagine being such an apologist for a billionaire that you actually believe this BS, lmao... you'd be doing the same thing for Trump in the 80s and 90s. You seem that gullible.

He came to the States with the wealth of his family to stand on, hate to break it to you. He's about as self-made as Trump.

Funny you talk about "hatred" when Musk is the one giving a platform to white nationalists and spewing their conspiracy theories... that's a "genius" for you? Lmao... you're diluted.

Who cares about a private company putting people in space and that idiotic vanity pissing match we had to witness some dumbass billionaires engaging in? Are you a billionaire? If not, you have no chance of ever being able to afford it. The only way non-billionaires are getting into space are as indentured servants to scum like Musk. Besides, things are pretty f'ed up here on earth... we have no business being in space until we fix those issues. Musk's wealth could go a long way in addressing those issues, but he's too much of malignant narcissist and as such incapable of empathy.

Again, time to climb out of his arse there guy and see him for who he really is and quit believing the BS about him. He's not self-made, he's not a genius, and lacks the "actual understanding on the topics"... speaking with confidence and using buzzwords does not equate to actual understanding: Narcissism 101 for the gullible such as yourself.

This "great" Musk, made a completely absurd in terms of profitability deal to buy Twitter, which is really not worth even 1/4 of the money paid and is now rapidly heading towards bankruptcy and non-existence. And someone got those very real 44 billion ...

3-4 such business failures and Musk is essentially bankrupt. He's just not as old as Trump yet...but everything is ahead, right?

Musk is a cynical businessman with no sense of integrity. Even his Tesla would have gone bankrupt long ago (like most of the US startups) if the rights of workers were protected in the US much tougher than in Europe.

Actually, I have long considered the effectiveness of his Tesla - it loses by an order of magnitude to the Japanese Toyota. Those. he successfully entered the market, receiving concessions from the authorities with the "green agenda", but as an effective entrepreneur, he is certainly bankrupt if he finds himself in the same tough environment of car manufacturers with internal combustion engines.

The fact that he violates the laws, between times and in fact a criminal, is an open secret for any sane person.

He is a skilled manipulator and a nimble businessman. But in fact, he should have been in prison for many years for previous deeds, from the days of PayPal.

He did not create anything fundamentally new (in terms of science), he just successfully got into a fashionable stream (and more than one) many years ago, when the management of automakers rested on their laurels, like once the same criminal Bill Gates, who also had to shake his term for a long time in prison, like the rest of the M$ bosses, multiple violations of the laws of the United States and other countries.

But since they did nothing fundamentally new in science, his successes will gradually fade away. In addition, he is already over 50 and his intellect is rapidly waning, so his gift of foresight in the search for a new fashionable jet will soon make a fatal mistake. It's unavoidable.

He has one task for today, like Bill Gates and a bunch of the same nimble businessmen once had - to have time to monetize as much as possible of the capitalization of his shares in shares. You can't sell quickly, it took Bill more than 20 years to do it. Everything else is empty informational noise, like most of the vigorous activity.

The same can be said about the head (beneficiaries) of almost any modern TNC.

Is Musk an authoritarian? Rather, he is a realist and a cynic who, like most, ignores the rules and laws adopted in society, if it is personally beneficial for him - power (and the mind is the highest degree of power) rules this world and nothing more. Whoever has the power is right.

History will judge everyone. The main thing is that there are those who remember how everything really happened. But human life is short, and everything quickly turns into false legends and tales, if there is no one to stop the rogues who rewrite history for themselves ... Winners are not judged. Because there is no one ... and it is the winners and their heirs who write the history of mankind. Therefore, there is very little real truth in the history of mankind, as everything really was - those who knew it are dead and for the most part did not have the right to vote and the opportunity to write history.

We live in a virtual reality that has been artificially drawn to us for centuries. And every time this virtual reality is more and more complex and sophisticated.

Quote from: Ish on July 13, 2023, 23:39:50Hate to break it to you, but Musk is just Trump 2.0: a malignant narcissist with authoritarian political beliefs who gets too much credit from idiots who don't know any better and who gained the system by being born into a ultra wealthy family. You can bury your head in the sand and apologize for him all you want, but the reality is he is no different than Trump and you're the kind of person who would have been making the same excuses for Trump in the 80s and 90s (i.e., "running up mountains of debt, ripping off contractors, declaring bankruptcy is a pro move"). Musk is the dumb persons genius, like Trump is the poor person's self-made billionaire: it is an illusion only the gullible fall for. Time to pull your head from his arse.

While he was born in a wealthy family, he disowned his father and came to America by himself without his dads money, aka the money he made was his own. A sharp contrast from Trump who got all his money from his dad.

I don't need to apologize for anyone, but that doesn't make me blind. Obsession and hatred both blind people and you are no less blinded than those obsessed people. As for your 80s and 90s statement about Trump, quite a ridiculous one considering I was well alive back then and thought he was a con artist.

There are plenty of billionaires that throw money around and get nowhere due to them not knowing any better, Musk may have a lot of issues as a human being, especially with all the fame getting to him. But his success rate and actual understanding on the topics speak volume. First private company to launch both things to space and people to space, despite much richer Bezos failing and all the issues Boeing had in achieving same. First successful new US automaker in a century despite dozens failing. Not to mention the other stuff he made like Zip2 and Paypal

Quote from: A on July 13, 2023, 20:44:33

Quote from: Ish on July 13, 2023, 17:14:20Time to crawl out of Elon's a** there guy. Tesla does things like every other company, the only difference is they have a loud mouth, man child of a CEO, with fascist leanings who insists on trying to stay relevant like a true narcissist while he runs companies into the ground. That and all the subsidies they receive from the federal government. Time to get over the Musk / Tesla fanboyism and see reality for what it really is: Trump 2.0 is not a genius...

1. Tesla offers a far better EV experience than any other automaker, the reason is simple, it isn't magic. It's because Tesla executives actually drive their own EVs instead of driving ICE cars and having someone else build their EVs on a checklist. They also don't have most of their business in ICE cars so don't need to worry about eating into their ICE investments and marketshare. Notice the article how Tesla was for stricter guidelines saying all EV is possible by 2030 while other automakers were against it? Then there is the dealership networks, Tesla was smart to do direct sales where as other automakers own dealers discourage EV buying

2. Not sure why you compare Musk and Trump, their only similarity is they both known for their posts on twitter, and that is about it. Musk abandoned his family and earned all his money on his own with pretty much all his companies being successful. In comparison, Trump got all his money from his daddy, most of his companies went bankrupt. If he would have put his daddy's money in the S&P, he'd be richer than he is today playing businessman

3. Tesla gets less subsidies than any other automaker. In case of VW, the government literally partly owns them.

Just cause you hate Musk is no reason to deny reality. All it means is other automakers need to up their game. Start by forcing all their executives to drive EVs

Hate to break it to you, but Musk is just Trump 2.0: a malignant narcissist with authoritarian political beliefs who gets too much credit from idiots who don't know any better and who gained the system by being born into a ultra wealthy family. You can bury your head in the sand and apologize for him all you want, but the reality is he is no different than Trump and you're the kind of person who would have been making the same excuses for Trump in the 80s and 90s (i.e., "running up mountains of debt, ripping off contractors, declaring bankruptcy is a pro move"). Musk is the dumb persons genius, like Trump is the poor person's self-made billionaire: it is an illusion only the gullible fall for. Time to pull your head from his arse.

Quote from: Ish on July 13, 2023, 17:14:20Time to crawl out of Elon's a** there guy. Tesla does things like every other company, the only difference is they have a loud mouth, man child of a CEO, with fascist leanings who insists on trying to stay relevant like a true narcissist while he runs companies into the ground. That and all the subsidies they receive from the federal government. Time to get over the Musk / Tesla fanboyism and see reality for what it really is: Trump 2.0 is not a genius...

1. Tesla offers a far better EV experience than any other automaker, the reason is simple, it isn't magic. It's because Tesla executives actually drive their own EVs instead of driving ICE cars and having someone else build their EVs on a checklist. They also don't have most of their business in ICE cars so don't need to worry about eating into their ICE investments and marketshare. Notice the article how Tesla was for stricter guidelines saying all EV is possible by 2030 while other automakers were against it? Then there is the dealership networks, Tesla was smart to do direct sales where as other automakers own dealers discourage EV buying

2. Not sure why you compare Musk and Trump, their only similarity is they both known for their posts on twitter, and that is about it. Musk abandoned his family and earned all his money on his own with pretty much all his companies being successful. In comparison, Trump got all his money from his daddy, most of his companies went bankrupt. If he would have put his daddy's money in the S&P, he'd be richer than he is today playing businessman

3. Tesla gets less subsidies than any other automaker. In case of VW, the government literally partly owns them.

Just cause you hate Musk is no reason to deny reality. All it means is other automakers need to up their game. Start by forcing all their executives to drive EVs

Quote from: Joe schmo on July 06, 2023, 12:11:17Tesla is a company that does things NON CONVENTIONAL and it works. Traditional auto makers are all stuck in an outdated business model. Too many useless managers, Frontliners treated as they know nothing, and where accountants and clueless high level managers make decisions. They're driven by useless metrics instead of what the customer wants. THATS WHY TESLA ISBEATING THEIR LUNCH.

Time to crawl out of Elon's a** there guy. Tesla does things like every other company, the only difference is they have a loud mouth, man child of a CEO, with fascist leanings who insists on trying to stay relevant like a true narcissist while he runs companies into the ground. That and all the subsidies they receive from the federal government. Time to get over the Musk / Tesla fanboyism and see reality for what it really is: Trump 2.0 is not a genius...

Quote from: Neenyah on July 06, 2023, 12:26:22So Toyota Corolla with a base starting price of 32K€ was the best selling car of a whole 2022 with 1.12 million sales. Confirmed various sources.
 
Tesla Model Y with a base starting price od 47K€ is the best selling car of Q1 2023 with 267,200 sales. Source trustmebro (AKA motor1.com).

So people worldwide are suddenly +48% richer and they feel the irressistible urge to get rid of that money ASAP. Makes perfect sense, yes. Not.

There is more to the equation, first of all, US passed the 7.5k tax credit which Tesla stopped qualifying for ever since they sold 200k but it returned due to IRA. On top of that many places have pretty high fuel prices so the overall savings is even bigger. Lastly, sedan sales in general have been falling while SUV sales have been going up

Ford raises prices on the Maverick Hybrid. Underestimated demand by having a 70/30 ICE to Hybrid mix.  Market was demanding just the opposite. A 70/30 Hybrid to ICE demand.

The hybrid Maverick will no longer be the base model. Ford will now make the ICE 2.0L the base model and add $1500 to the hybrid and make it the premium.

I'm confused.

Gas prices were nearly $4 last year around the outbreak of the war.
Today they are at like 3.75 or so, fluctuating between 3.60 and 3.80...

When did gas prices fall?  They've sat steady since the war began...

VW is making odd decisions. They need to compete against their best selling vehicles, but they are not designing to compete.

I would have bought the ID3 GTX of they had started with it and shipped it to the US. Unfortunately, they decided to start with SUVs.

The issue I believe relies on:
Manufacturers think everyone wants an SUV.
Statistics may indicate people would get ICE SUVs. But my big guess is people would be more comfortable buying a small commuter EV instead of replacing their SUVs

Yet every manufacturer decided to start trying to replace the most common ICE use cases, instead of the EV use cases. Tesla beat them by coming with an ICE killer right from the start which is what many ICE manufacturers seem to be afraid of.

So Toyota Corolla with a base starting price of 32K€ was the best selling car of a whole 2022 with 1.12 million sales. Confirmed various sources.
 
Tesla Model Y with a base starting price od 47K€ is the best selling car of Q1 2023 with 267,200 sales. Source trustmebro (AKA motor1.com).

So people worldwide are suddenly +48% richer and they feel the irressistible urge to get rid of that money ASAP. Makes perfect sense, yes. Not.

Tesla is a company that does things NON CONVENTIONAL and it works. Traditional auto makers are all stuck in an outdated business model. Too many useless managers, Frontliners treated as they know nothing, and where accountants and clueless high level managers make decisions. They're driven by useless metrics instead of what the customer wants. THATS WHY TESLA ISBEATING THEIR LUNCH.

Quote from: A on July 05, 2023, 20:31:41Tesla Model Y in 2023Q1 was the best selling car in the world. Demand is there if you build your car right. But the most important thing is the experience, VW and other automakers really needs to up their game and make the experience more seamless.

Just to clarify, for people who don't know.
The Model Y was the best selling car in the world... In general, not referring specifically to electric cars.
Tesla sold more "Model Y" electric cars than Toyota sold "Corolla" combustion cars.