This is disgusting. I look forward to cracks of these subscription model software.

Quote from: vertigo on April 28, 2023, 05:03:03

Quote from: A on April 27, 2023, 20:55:32But the real difference is what do you think is easier, going into a menu on a touchscreen or finding your manual and going through it to find what each button does?

I don't know that I've ever had to refer to a manual to figure out how to operate a button or knob, whereas I've had to do so multiple times for touchscreen and otherwise "smart" interfaces.

You are saying I can point to a button on any car and you can instantly tell me what it does without a manual? or if I ask you how to do something in any car you would be able to do it without a manual? I somehow doubt.

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Quote from: A on April 27, 2023, 20:55:32As for OS changes, how often does that happen? You have to get used to a new button layout every time you buy a new car too

With Android, practically every year. Linux, basically every few years, give or take. Windows, every five or so. Meanwhile, my car's interface hasn't changed for 14 years and counting.

Android interface remains mostly the same it has been since it came out. Only thing that changed was more polish. There were only 2 real major interaction changes which is swipe up for apps and latest 13 change where they got rid of buttons for hot corners. And with both cases you can go back to old.

Most of windows interface was the same until Windows 8. And they slightly went back with 10.

If you buy a new model of your car, I guarantee you it won't have the same interface either every midterm refresh 3-5 years or every full refresh 6-8 years. End of the day, you chose to update your OS and chose not to update your car

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Quote from: A on April 27, 2023, 20:55:32No, performing actions on a touchscreen is not the same thing as watching movies, texting, surfing the web and etc. Lets stop pretending they are.

There is no such thing as "feeling" the buttons. I am pro keyboard phones and I prefer a laptop over a tablet any day. But I have never in my life seen anyone feel the buttons on their car. It is impossible due to orientation so everyone takes a quick glance be it buttons or touchscreen.

Nobody is saying they're the same, and now you're throwing out straw-man arguments. Even talking on the phone hands-free is proven to be distracting, as despite not having to take your eyes off the road, it diverts your attention from the road. Having to look at a touchscreen and hover your finger over it, sometimes for several seconds as your hand bounces around, then tap the correct part of the screen (not to mention if you mis-tap) is absolutely distracting. Obviously not as much as staring at a screen for an hour plus watching a movie or texting, etc, but that's a disingenuous argument.

And my brothers and I weren't allowed to drive until we could adjust the temperature controls and radio by feel, i.e. without looking at them. So while you may not have seen it, I assure you people do indeed do that. Just because it's not common doesn't mean it's not better and that people shouldn't be better at it and do it more. Regardless, it is significantly faster to look down for a second to see where you put your hand to adjust things than to stare at a screen for several seconds (hopefully intermittently) while you tap it.

But that is exactly what they are saying. Either that or they don't realize why they are banned. The one making a strawman argument is them, not me.

Any time you get your hands off the wheel be it buttons or touchscreen, if your road is bouncing your hand so much, you most definitely shouldn't be taking your hands off the wheel at all.

As for being able to change the temperature without looking, really? Are you that confident? Or are you looking subconsciously without realizing it? That's the thing, we humans tend to filter out stuff we do often. Even more there is risk that if you mess up you can get disoriented and lose focus.

This is why I said, safest thing is having common functions on wheel and/or voice control

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Quote from: A on April 27, 2023, 20:55:32As for things like changing the temperature, as I pointed out above, there are certain common things that everyone uses. These things should not be on dashboard anyways but on the wheel. And things like temperature can easily also be on voice control. That would be less distracting than buttons as you don't need to glance at all

Also, with touchscreen you can also do more advance settings hard to do with buttons like have the temperature adjust dynamically based on settings. Thus reducing need to fiddle with it in the first place

Putting too much on the wheel can lead to problems as well. As I said, I'm not against a touchscreen, but it should not totally replace physical buttons and knobs, but rather enhance their functionality. For example, you could have a touchscreen with big buttons for volume, temperature, fan speed, etc, and whichever one you activate, that's what's adjusted by +/- buttons on the wheel or a knob/dial. Of course, even that could have issues, as often I adjust the temperature and fan speed at the same time, and it would be more cumbersome having to tap the screen to select one, adjust it, then tap the screen again to select the other and adjust that, not to mention if you think it's on one setting and try to turn the radio up and end up turning the heat up.

You don't need everything on the wheel. Just the most common ones. And have them configurable via touchscreen. 4 buttons and 4 dials/scrollers would be more than plenty to cover what most people adjust on the go.

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Quote from: A on April 27, 2023, 20:55:32Voice control has gotten a ton better than it used to be, some old systems have been terrible but recent ones are pretty spot on.

This is true, but AFAIK the "good" voice recognition (and even those aren't necessarily always great) process in the cloud, which isn't really ideal for a car. So they'd have to have more advanced AI chips for local processing. This is absolutely possible, the question is, would it actually be done?

You send it to the cloud as every car now has 4g built in, if cloud isn't available use built-in as backup. Many are including AI microchips to do cruise control already. So it won't require any extra hardware.

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Quote from: A on April 27, 2023, 20:55:32Also, systems with some smarts would know not to blast the radio or AC. You start low and increase gradually. You can be surprised by a radio even with buttons if when you activate it. it suddenly plays a loud noise or AC goes into full blast

Right, but as I mentioned, just because a system can be smart enough doesn't mean it will be. I've seen a whole lot of stupid things with technology (and otherwise) and I wouldn't doubt for a second that some manufacturers will overlook things like this and not make their systems smart in this way.

But isn't that the real problem? Having touchscreens isn't the safety issue, the safety issue is the package as a whole.

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Quote from: A on April 27, 2023, 20:55:32I think the best layout is touchscreen on dash and decent amount of buttons on steering wheel that both allow for common functions and some configuration. In this way, you never need to even touch the dashboard when driving at all, thus no need for even a second glance as you are always oriented on the wheel already

In this we agree. Or we could get really futuristic and it could display a HUD and have infrared eye-tracking sensors and you could control it by looking at something on the HUD and clicking a button to "tap" it. Then you wouldn't have to take your eyes off the road at all.

Some cars already have the infrared eye thing, but not for control but super cruise checks if you are looking forward. That said, that can be risky for control because HUDs can block your view and you can get misclicks or other issues. Some VR headsets do the whole thing where looking at a place activates and it is quite stressful. If you are going to go futuristic, why not the car just read your mind and do whatever you want it to do ;)

Quote from: A on April 27, 2023, 20:55:32But the real difference is what do you think is easier, going into a menu on a touchscreen or finding your manual and going through it to find what each button does?

I don't know that I've ever had to refer to a manual to figure out how to operate a button or knob, whereas I've had to do so multiple times for touchscreen and otherwise "smart" interfaces.

Quote from: A on April 27, 2023, 20:55:32As for OS changes, how often does that happen? You have to get used to a new button layout every time you buy a new car too

With Android, practically every year. Linux, basically every few years, give or take. Windows, every five or so. Meanwhile, my car's interface hasn't changed for 14 years and counting.

Quote from: A on April 27, 2023, 20:55:32No, performing actions on a touchscreen is not the same thing as watching movies, texting, surfing the web and etc. Lets stop pretending they are.

There is no such thing as "feeling" the buttons. I am pro keyboard phones and I prefer a laptop over a tablet any day. But I have never in my life seen anyone feel the buttons on their car. It is impossible due to orientation so everyone takes a quick glance be it buttons or touchscreen.

Nobody is saying they're the same, and now you're throwing out straw-man arguments. Even talking on the phone hands-free is proven to be distracting, as despite not having to take your eyes off the road, it diverts your attention from the road. Having to look at a touchscreen and hover your finger over it, sometimes for several seconds as your hand bounces around, then tap the correct part of the screen (not to mention if you mis-tap) is absolutely distracting. Obviously not as much as staring at a screen for an hour plus watching a movie or texting, etc, but that's a disingenuous argument.

And my brothers and I weren't allowed to drive until we could adjust the temperature controls and radio by feel, i.e. without looking at them. So while you may not have seen it, I assure you people do indeed do that. Just because it's not common doesn't mean it's not better and that people shouldn't be better at it and do it more. Regardless, it is significantly faster to look down for a second to see where you put your hand to adjust things than to stare at a screen for several seconds (hopefully intermittently) while you tap it.

Quote from: A on April 27, 2023, 20:55:32As for things like changing the temperature, as I pointed out above, there are certain common things that everyone uses. These things should not be on dashboard anyways but on the wheel. And things like temperature can easily also be on voice control. That would be less distracting than buttons as you don't need to glance at all

Also, with touchscreen you can also do more advance settings hard to do with buttons like have the temperature adjust dynamically based on settings. Thus reducing need to fiddle with it in the first place

Putting too much on the wheel can lead to problems as well. As I said, I'm not against a touchscreen, but it should not totally replace physical buttons and knobs, but rather enhance their functionality. For example, you could have a touchscreen with big buttons for volume, temperature, fan speed, etc, and whichever one you activate, that's what's adjusted by +/- buttons on the wheel or a knob/dial. Of course, even that could have issues, as often I adjust the temperature and fan speed at the same time, and it would be more cumbersome having to tap the screen to select one, adjust it, then tap the screen again to select the other and adjust that, not to mention if you think it's on one setting and try to turn the radio up and end up turning the heat up.

Quote from: A on April 27, 2023, 20:55:32Voice control has gotten a ton better than it used to be, some old systems have been terrible but recent ones are pretty spot on.

This is true, but AFAIK the "good" voice recognition (and even those aren't necessarily always great) process in the cloud, which isn't really ideal for a car. So they'd have to have more advanced AI chips for local processing. This is absolutely possible, the question is, would it actually be done?

Quote from: A on April 27, 2023, 20:55:32Also, systems with some smarts would know not to blast the radio or AC. You start low and increase gradually. You can be surprised by a radio even with buttons if when you activate it. it suddenly plays a loud noise or AC goes into full blast

Right, but as I mentioned, just because a system can be smart enough doesn't mean it will be. I've seen a whole lot of stupid things with technology (and otherwise) and I wouldn't doubt for a second that some manufacturers will overlook things like this and not make their systems smart in this way.

Quote from: A on April 27, 2023, 20:55:32I think the best layout is touchscreen on dash and decent amount of buttons on steering wheel that both allow for common functions and some configuration. In this way, you never need to even touch the dashboard when driving at all, thus no need for even a second glance as you are always oriented on the wheel already

In this we agree. Or we could get really futuristic and it could display a HUD and have infrared eye-tracking sensors and you could control it by looking at something on the HUD and clicking a button to "tap" it. Then you wouldn't have to take your eyes off the road at all.

Honestly, if speech recognition was 99% or better I would be OK with removing physical knobs.
"Volume 7"
"Temp 69"

It would be safer and more intuitive to speak what you want if it was reliable.  Until then, however, fiddling even one more second with a screen than is necessary is dangerous.  If anything I want fewer distractions and less data available.  I guess I'm an outlier, though.  I end up turning the display lights all the way off on long road trips at night.  It increases my sensitivity to what is important: What's on the road in front of me.

Quote from: vertigo on April 27, 2023, 18:43:00

Quote from: A on April 27, 2023, 02:02:041. That is a flawed comparison, touch screens vary. It's like saying it is easier to print documents on a typewriter than a computer, and as a test give a person a typewriter and a unix computer with no gui and no printer driver installed. Many touchscreens are terrible, but a good touchscreen is much better than buttons. Try giving someone a task they never did before and have them use a Tesla touchscreen vs buttons. Touchscreens are very good for accessibility if done right. And as software updates become a thing, new features can be added to convenient places without installing new physical buttons. As for common actions, they should really be mapped to wheel buttons for quick access or voice commands.

I also disagree with this. Touchscreens are far worse. Yes, they allow for more functions in a given space, which is likely part of the reasoning for using them, but they're absolutely not more intuitive or easier to use than buttons. At best, they're equivalent, but they're almost always worse, and as soon as it requires more than one touch to do something, they're worse.

As for adding new features, that sounds great in theory, until you consider how pretty much every new version of various OS's tends to move things around, so after you get used to the layout and learn where things are and how to access various functions, it's not only possible, but likely, things will get changed and you'll have to relearn it, which would be very distracting.

They most definitely are, the more common actions are on front screen, you go into menus for configuring settings, some of which are almost impossible with buttons. But the real difference is what do you think is easier, going into a menu on a touchscreen or finding your manual and going through it to find what each button does?

As for OS changes, how often does that happen? You have to get used to a new button layout every time you buy a new car too

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Quote from: A on April 27, 2023, 04:31:31Your logic is flawed. Using your phone is illegal in a car has 0 to do with it being a touchscreen. Phones were illegal in cars even when they had physical buttons. The problem is people being distracted with things like texting, watching videos, playing games and etc. And none allow you to do that on the touchscreen of a car while driving. Some cars don't even let you go into menus or change certain settings while driving. There is nothing about a touchscreen that makes it any more or less distracting than buttons. Even for things like light during night isn't a problem with dark mode and ambient light sensor

Correct, it's illegal because it's distracting, as is trying to perform actions with a touchscreen, where you not only have to look instead of feel, but often will require multiple taps vs one push of a button or turn of a dial (especially with something like having to hold down a button to turn the temperature up/down multiple degrees) and, probably even worse, trying to actually hit the right spot on the screen while your hand is bouncing up and down. It sounds like you've never actually tried using a touchscreen in a moving car on anything but a pristine, flat road. And once you hit the wrong button, now you have to undo what you just did as well as go back and try again to do what you were originally trying to do. It's significantly more distracting than buttons. I keep my phone mounted within easy reach (easier than the radio and temperature controls) and direct view (just below the bottom of the windshield) and it's still often harder and more distracting to perform actions on it than it is to use the radio and temperature controls which are no where near as conveniently located.

No, performing actions on a touchscreen is not the same thing as watching movies, texting, surfing the web and etc. Lets stop pretending they are.

There is no such thing as "feeling" the buttons. I am pro keyboard phones and I prefer a laptop over a tablet any day. But I have never in my life seen anyone feel the buttons on their car. It is impossible due to orientation so everyone takes a quick glance be it buttons or touchscreen.

As for things like changing the temperature, as I pointed out above, there are certain common things that everyone uses. These things should not be on dashboard anyways but on the wheel. And things like temperature can easily also be on voice control. That would be less distracting than buttons as you don't need to glance at all

Also, with touchscreen you can also do more advance settings hard to do with buttons like have the temperature adjust dynamically based on settings. Thus reducing need to fiddle with it in the first place

Quote

Quote from: A on April 27, 2023, 11:07:56You aren't going to run someone over in your car if it gets your radio channel wrong.

You'd think so, but all it would take is for it to do something wrong and cause the driver to have to fiddle with it more, whether by interacting with the display or even just having to repeat themselves over and over (I find using voice recognition to often actually be more distracting and take longer than doing things manually due to this) to result in them being distracted enough to get in an accident. And that's saying nothing of the possibility, albeit unlikely and, hopefully, accounted for and made impossible in the system design (yeah, right), of it blasting the radio or AC/heat or something else that would not only potentially surprise the driver, but cause them to quickly fumble with the system to stop it, both of which would result in plenty of distraction to cause an accident.

I think a good compromise, and probably the best solution, is a touchscreen to show the controls and knobs and buttons below/next to it to actually control them, so the knobs/buttons can have numerous functions but interacting with the screen isn't necessary. And in cases where it might actually be easier to interact with the screen, like scrolling, or for people that actually find it easier, though I suspect that's a case of someone thinking it's easier and less distracting, but a test would show that to not be the case. Also, ideally, there should be buttons and a dial on the steering wheel so it can be controlled from there.

Voice control has gotten a ton better than it used to be, some old systems have been terrible but recent ones are pretty spot on. Also, systems with some smarts would know not to blast the radio or AC. You start low and increase gradually. You can be surprised by a radio even with buttons if when you activate it. it suddenly plays a loud noise or AC goes into full blast

I think the best layout is touchscreen on dash and decent amount of buttons on steering wheel that both allow for common functions and some configuration. In this way, you never need to even touch the dashboard when driving at all, thus no need for even a second glance as you are always oriented on the wheel already

Quote from: A on April 27, 2023, 02:02:041. That is a flawed comparison, touch screens vary. It's like saying it is easier to print documents on a typewriter than a computer, and as a test give a person a typewriter and a unix computer with no gui and no printer driver installed. Many touchscreens are terrible, but a good touchscreen is much better than buttons. Try giving someone a task they never did before and have them use a Tesla touchscreen vs buttons. Touchscreens are very good for accessibility if done right. And as software updates become a thing, new features can be added to convenient places without installing new physical buttons. As for common actions, they should really be mapped to wheel buttons for quick access or voice commands.

I also disagree with this. Touchscreens are far worse. Yes, they allow for more functions in a given space, which is likely part of the reasoning for using them, but they're absolutely not more intuitive or easier to use than buttons. At best, they're equivalent, but they're almost always worse, and as soon as it requires more than one touch to do something, they're worse.

As for adding new features, that sounds great in theory, until you consider how pretty much every new version of various OS's tends to move things around, so after you get used to the layout and learn where things are and how to access various functions, it's not only possible, but likely, things will get changed and you'll have to relearn it, which would be very distracting.

Quote from: A on April 27, 2023, 04:31:31Your logic is flawed. Using your phone is illegal in a car has 0 to do with it being a touchscreen. Phones were illegal in cars even when they had physical buttons. The problem is people being distracted with things like texting, watching videos, playing games and etc. And none allow you to do that on the touchscreen of a car while driving. Some cars don't even let you go into menus or change certain settings while driving. There is nothing about a touchscreen that makes it any more or less distracting than buttons. Even for things like light during night isn't a problem with dark mode and ambient light sensor

Correct, it's illegal because it's distracting, as is trying to perform actions with a touchscreen, where you not only have to look instead of feel, but often will require multiple taps vs one push of a button or turn of a dial (especially with something like having to hold down a button to turn the temperature up/down multiple degrees) and, probably even worse, trying to actually hit the right spot on the screen while your hand is bouncing up and down. It sounds like you've never actually tried using a touchscreen in a moving car on anything but a pristine, flat road. And once you hit the wrong button, now you have to undo what you just did as well as go back and try again to do what you were originally trying to do. It's significantly more distracting than buttons. I keep my phone mounted within easy reach (easier than the radio and temperature controls) and direct view (just below the bottom of the windshield) and it's still often harder and more distracting to perform actions on it than it is to use the radio and temperature controls which are no where near as conveniently located.

Quote from: A on April 27, 2023, 11:07:56You aren't going to run someone over in your car if it gets your radio channel wrong.

You'd think so, but all it would take is for it to do something wrong and cause the driver to have to fiddle with it more, whether by interacting with the display or even just having to repeat themselves over and over (I find using voice recognition to often actually be more distracting and take longer than doing things manually due to this) to result in them being distracted enough to get in an accident. And that's saying nothing of the possibility, albeit unlikely and, hopefully, accounted for and made impossible in the system design (yeah, right), of it blasting the radio or AC/heat or something else that would not only potentially surprise the driver, but cause them to quickly fumble with the system to stop it, both of which would result in plenty of distraction to cause an accident.

I think a good compromise, and probably the best solution, is a touchscreen to show the controls and knobs and buttons below/next to it to actually control them, so the knobs/buttons can have numerous functions but interacting with the screen isn't necessary. And in cases where it might actually be easier to interact with the screen, like scrolling, or for people that actually find it easier, though I suspect that's a case of someone thinking it's easier and less distracting, but a test would show that to not be the case. Also, ideally, there should be buttons and a dial on the steering wheel so it can be controlled from there.

Quote from: Markiz on April 27, 2023, 09:12:34

Quote from: A on April 27, 2023, 02:02:04a good touchscreen is much better than buttons.

You are out of your mind.

Nope, just understand that cars from now are going to get new features and nobody reads their car manual.

Quote from: A on April 27, 2023, 02:02:04As for common actions, they should really be mapped to wheel buttons for quick access or voice commands.

Anyone suggesting that crucial common tasks in a 2 ton moving vehicle should relly on VOICE is completely out of touch in how the humans or this universe works.
[/quote]
The only crucial tasks in a car are the wheels, shift, accelerator and brakes. Maybe windshield wiper and lights. Otherwise, most common things changed is stuff like temperature, radio channels, set destination for gps and etc. Voice can handle all that just fine.

Aka, most common stuff can be done by voice just fine. You aren't going to run someone over in your car if it gets your radio channel wrong.

Quote from: A on April 27, 2023, 02:02:04The EPA test is a 5 cycle test, so a car can do better in one test or worse in another. But your driving isn't going to be all 5 tests. That is why you should pay more attention to highway or city instead of the combined as it gives you more accurate read for your use. Manufacturers are required by law to use EPA test numbers (though they can advertise less)

This can't be correct given the information presented.
If EPS is actually standardized, then it should be equally off for all manufacturers.
[/quote]
The tests are like grade average with weight. It is same for every manufacturer, but one can get 50 in math and 100 in english, and another get 50 in english and 100 in math and both would get same score. The EPA does break down highway and city mpg but not all 5 tests. But manufacturers just quote the EPA combined range.

Quote from: A on April 27, 2023, 02:02:04The EPA to make it easier for EVs allowed them to do the old 2 cycle test instead of 5 cycle to cut cost, but they must subtract 20% range from end result.

So who would take the 2 cycle then? What is the upside here? Why is this even an option, to what purpose other then to confuse consumers?

[/quote]
Most take the 2 cycle test, sure your end result may be less range. But do understand EVs are low production(for now), the cost to test every model you make for a car you plan to produce 20k a year for lowers your profit margin. And you'll likely sell all the cars you produce anyways. More so in US where dealers buy your cars, not consumers directly.

As manufacturers pick up EV production, more and more will take the 5 cycle test to get better results. And most likely at one point EPA will close the 2 cycle exception once EV sales reach a certain point.

Quote from: A on April 27, 2023, 02:02:04a good touchscreen is much better than buttons.

You are out of your mind.

Quote from: A on April 27, 2023, 02:02:04As for common actions, they should really be mapped to wheel buttons for quick access or voice commands.

Anyone suggesting that crucial common tasks in a 2 ton moving vehicle should relly on VOICE is completely out of touch in how the humans or this universe works.

Quote from: A on April 27, 2023, 02:02:04The EPA test is a 5 cycle test, so a car can do better in one test or worse in another. But your driving isn't going to be all 5 tests. That is why you should pay more attention to highway or city instead of the combined as it gives you more accurate read for your use. Manufacturers are required by law to use EPA test numbers (though they can advertise less)

This can't be correct given the information presented.
If EPS is actually standardized, then it should be equally off for all manufacturers.

Quote from: A on April 27, 2023, 02:02:04The EPA to make it easier for EVs allowed them to do the old 2 cycle test instead of 5 cycle to cut cost, but they must subtract 20% range from end result.

So who would take the 2 cycle then? What is the upside here? Why is this even an option, to what purpose other then to confuse consumers?

QuoteThere is nothing about a touchscreen that makes it any more or less distracting than buttons.

Of course there is, you can touch the buttons and not take your sight from the road, while with a touchscreen you need to look at it.
With buttons you have tactile information that do not exist in screens.

Congratulations, Master Schwad is proud of you.

Now go eat you bugs, you peon.

Quote from: Mr Majestyk on April 27, 2023, 04:10:03Author is spot on, could disagree more with guest comments. Touch screens are just as danerous as using your phone in the car which is illegal. It's a horrendous trend as are the hideous digital ipad dashboards.

Your logic is flawed. Using your phone is illegal in a car has 0 to do with it being a touchscreen. Phones were illegal in cars even when they had physical buttons. The problem is people being distracted with things like texting, watching videos, playing games and etc. And none allow you to do that on the touchscreen of a car while driving. Some cars don't even let you go into menus or change certain settings while driving. There is nothing about a touchscreen that makes it any more or less distracting than buttons. Even for things like light during night isn't a problem with dark mode and ambient light sensor

Author is spot on, could disagree more with guest comments. Touch screens are just as danerous as using your phone in the car which is illegal. It's a horrendous trend as are the hideous digital ipad dashboards.

1. That is a flawed comparison, touch screens vary. It's like saying it is easier to print documents on a typewriter than a computer, and as a test give a person a typewriter and a unix computer with no gui and no printer driver installed. Many touchscreens are terrible, but a good touchscreen is much better than buttons. Try giving someone a task they never did before and have them use a Tesla touchscreen vs buttons. Touchscreens are very good for accessibility if done right. And as software updates become a thing, new features can be added to convenient places without installing new physical buttons. As for common actions, they should really be mapped to wheel buttons for quick access or voice commands.

2. I personally don't care if they lock things like performance via software. This isn't CPUs or GPUs where you benefit from the performance in anything you do and future proofs it more. As someone who sees cars as mostly A to B. If it can mean cheaper cars, sure go ahead software lock them. Part of the real problem though for CPU and GPU locking is they have lack of competition which means those locks just go towards profit. But for cars due to being more competitive, it's a different story

3. This isn't even a trend, it's simply how the test works. The EPA test is a 5 cycle test, so a car can do better in one test or worse in another. But your driving isn't going to be all 5 tests. That is why you should pay more attention to highway or city instead of the combined as it gives you more accurate read for your use. Manufacturers are required by law to use EPA test numbers (though they can advertise less)

That said, there is 1 other thing that most people don't know. The EPA to make it easier for EVs allowed them to do the old 2 cycle test instead of 5 cycle to cut cost, but they must subtract 20% range from end result. This is why Tesla and Porsche get different EPA results. Tesla takes the full 5 cycle test, Porsche did the 2 cycle and subtracted the 20%. Those that take the 2 cycle test and subtract 20% usually get lower EPA range scores than they would if they took the 5 cycle test. This can be seen if you compare EPA range vs the WLTP range. The Porsche and those that took the 2 cycle test did much better on the WLTP relative to those who took the 5 cycle test on the EPA

Lastly, I'll say one more thing about range. Some EVs let you go a few miles below 0.