Quote from: asl97 on April 24, 2023, 08:11:15

Quote from: LOL on April 23, 2023, 16:52:03Mechanical HDDs will eventually be obsolete and only available at some museum display.

maybe in a few tens or hundreds of years, HDD hasn't reach it's peak yet, the heads of a HDD all move together right now and only one of them is active at a time and that greatly limit the speed.

for a large HDD with multiple platter, there still room for improvement

Quote from: NikoB on April 23, 2023, 17:35:49after 3 years the reading speed drops by 3-10 times, even with wear in 1%.

If your wear is only at 1%, you clearly didn't give it a chance to refresh the cell much, ether resilver the drive or better yet, copy everything off it, do a secure erase to refresh the drive and copy everything back.

The same thing slow down happens with flash/thumb drive, the only difference is you do a full reformat, basically filling it with '0's

Quote from: Codrut Nistor on April 23, 2023, 18:04:33I hear you! Still have two FUNCTIONAL 50 MB Conner drives somewhere around. Do you happen to know a billionaire who would pay me at least 100k for them? :D

You are clearly just trolling now

I am definitely NOT trolling. Also have a functional mainboard-memory-video card with an AMD 80286 12-S processor. No math coprocessor installed in the mainboard, sadly. I don't have a huge museum of antiques, but these are pieces of hardware that I own and I am not trolling.

I've historically only bought WD drives since my experience with Seagate (not including old laptops where I've had Toshiba and HGST), but now I don't want to buy WD because I don't want to. on capacious models they are too expensive compared even with the corporate MG class from Toshiba, despite the fact that the latter has 10 times less read errors than the consumer (more expensive) versions of WD and at the same time the read / write head resource is 3 times higher based on 1 year of use. The choice is obvious.

Because all capacious models are too noisy, you can easily solve the problem at home even if there is no NAS in a separate utility room, so that the noise is not annoying - install the SATA Power switch in your tower (in a 5.25" bay or in the form of an expansion card with buttons on the back) to 4-6 power ports. There are a lot of such models on eBay/Amazon/Ali. And connect it, but noisy drives, for backup, only when you really need them.

Yeah, but then you'd have to have trash Seagate drives in your rig.

Quote from: asl97 on April 24, 2023, 08:11:15If your wear is only at 1%, you clearly didn't give it a chance to refresh the cell much, ether resilver the drive or better yet, copy everything off it, do a secure erase to refresh the drive and copy everything back.

if you need to store data for several years on a shelf with rare backups, no "updating" of cells is possible and no one in their right mind will deal with this nonsense. Adequate people will simply buy a capacious HDD, which is also many times cheaper, without helium, and close the topic of storing their data for 10-15 years in advance, having copies on 3-4 disks at the same time. Plus, it is desirable to have the most valuable ones on BD, but in light of their low capacity (single-layer ones, because multi-layer ones are extremely unreliable according to tests), no one wants to mess with them until the capacity of BD discs grows to at least 1TB. Tapes are also inaccessible to ordinary people, due to the huge cost of read / write systems for them. Only the rich and business can afford them.

SSDs only make sense as system drives and short-term data storage. If your valuable data lies only on the SSD, consider that you have already lost 100% of them.

The only NAND technology I trust is MLC or SLC. But they have practically disappeared from sale. And no multilayer chips can bring them back to life, because. the capacity will immediately become 1.5-4 times lower, i.e. really reliable SSDs on MLCs cost an order of magnitude more than the same capacity in HDDs.

Until there are cheap and very capacious (from 10TB) MLC/SLC disks with a guaranteed data storage time of 10 years on the shelf, there is no talk of using an SSD for storing "cold" data if a person sane and tech savvy.

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I would be very happy with very capacious NAND disks with a write once (or up to 10 times for example), but very cheap and with a shelf life of 25 years on the shelf, but no one has yet come up with such, as a replacement for DVD/BD.

Quote from: LOL on April 23, 2023, 16:52:03Mechanical HDDs will eventually be obsolete and only available at some museum display.

maybe in a few tens or hundreds of years, HDD hasn't reach it's peak yet, the heads of a HDD all move together right now and only one of them is active at a time and that greatly limit the speed.

for a large HDD with multiple platter, there still room for improvement

Quote from: NikoB on April 23, 2023, 17:35:49after 3 years the reading speed drops by 3-10 times, even with wear in 1%.

If your wear is only at 1%, you clearly didn't give it a chance to refresh the cell much, ether resilver the drive or better yet, copy everything off it, do a secure erase to refresh the drive and copy everything back.

The same thing slow down happens with flash/thumb drive, the only difference is you do a full reformat, basically filling it with '0's

Quote from: Codrut Nistor on April 23, 2023, 18:04:33I hear you! Still have two FUNCTIONAL 50 MB Conner drives somewhere around. Do you happen to know a billionaire who would pay me at least 100k for them? :D

You are clearly just trolling now

Quote from: LOL on April 23, 2023, 16:52:03You heard this here first: Seagate will get sanctioned due to various illegal dealings with China.

Not like it matters much, Seagate and Western Digital will become irrelevant as SSDs eat up their market share. I am old enough to remember floppy diskettes and Iomega Zip drives. Mechanical HDDs will eventually be obsolete and only available at some museum display.

I hear you! Still have two FUNCTIONAL 50 MB Conner drives somewhere around. Do you happen to know a billionaire who would pay me at least 100k for them? :D

Quote from: LOL on April 23, 2023, 16:52:03You heard this here first: Seagate will get sanctioned due to various illegal dealings with China.

Not like it matters much, Seagate and Western Digital will become irrelevant as SSDs eat up their market share. I am old enough to remember floppy diskettes and Iomega Zip drives. Mechanical HDDs will eventually be obsolete and only available at some museum display.

They will never become obsolete for a simple reason - 3D TLC, and even more so QLC and even more terrible PLC, store data for no more than 2-3 years at the initial speed, and after 3 years the reading speed drops by 3-10 times, even with wear in 1%. Which is proven even by my personal multiple tests from different manufacturers. And the lower the flash grade, the worse it gets. How many people in the world buy A++ grade discs? 1-2%?

HDD is the only super-capacity direct access storage technology for more than 10 years. They have no replacement in the next 50 years 100%, so do not write philistine nonsense without understanding the issue.

You heard this here first: Seagate will get sanctioned due to various illegal dealings with China.

Not like it matters much, Seagate and Western Digital will become irrelevant as SSDs eat up their market share. I am old enough to remember floppy diskettes and Iomega Zip drives. Mechanical HDDs will eventually be obsolete and only available at some museum display.

You think it's not a bargain in the US? Here in the UK we're still being charged £230 for it.

Well, it's easy to hurt their ego. What happens to the perpetrator after that, it's another story. :D

My experience shows that this is not so - women are the most cruel creatures on the planet and certainly not fragile.

@NikoB, I only have a minor comment: I think the most fragile item on the planet is a woman's ego. :)

The first rule of buying an HDD (the most fragile item on the planet) is never buy it remotely. Only at the local store. With a mandatory check at the time of purchase, for vibration, noise and surface quality, for example in HDAT2.

Buying such a product remotely is a belief in chance, at random. Like buying from a local store without checks.

I act in this way - weeded out a lot of clearly defective (probably somewhere along the way that were hit) HDDs in stores.

But even a disk that is ideal in tests, later, due to hidden mechanical defects, may well suddenly fail. Therefore - a guarantee, strictly 5 years.

And these are only series like Toshiba MG, because. WD costs significantly more than the corporate sector. For old times' sake, I prefer not to get involved with Seagate.

Quote from: The Werewolf on April 21, 2023, 18:57:59Sorry, but a cheap unreliable hard drive isn't a bargain.

With one exception, all the drives I've owned that have failed catastrophically have been Seagates. I've had one WD drive fail ever and it was a SAFE fail (onboard diagnostics warn of an impending failure) so I had lots of time to get my data off the drive.

I've even bought Seagates that were DOA and had to get the seller to replace them. Again, never happens with WDs.

I have 20 HDs online and 15 offline for backups running for over 10 years, for context.

The only DOA drive I ever got was a WD. An Enterprise drive, to make the matters worse. Also, I had one WD die all of a sudden, a few months after its warranty expired. This doesn't make me say that WD is a bad brand, only that I had been unlucky with WD drives.

People clearly don't know the right way to use SMR drives, it's meant for backup like Codrut said.

Few huge archives is fine but daily backup works better with a proper backup system like whole disk image and snapshot using RoW, where all changes since last backup is all in one file image.