Quote from: Sinocelt on April 14, 2023, 10:13:51Then they're shooting themselves in the foot by delaying the arrival of an APU better than Intel's (if Phoenix really is better than Intel's current offerings). They may make more money on the short term by first selling off their old APUs, but at the long-term cost of market share. If Phoenix laptops finally start trickling out only when Meteor Lake launches, Phoenix will find it harder to shine.

One thing to keep in mind however is, that the AMD 680m iGPU was probably only a testrun. But now 1 year has passed, and the testrun should be finished, and the 780m should arrive in great numbers.

Likewise it will probably be on Intel. MeteorLake is probably only a testrun for ArrowLake. As the Ryzen 6000 series was only available on laptops, MeteorLake is also only announced for laptops. This somehow confirms the assumption of testruns only.

Testruns often have a negative connotation...

AMD's testrun should be over now and they could go into delivery mode with a mature product, while Intel MeteorLake is only beginning with it's testrun. So from that perspective AMD has an advantage.
But you never know... maybe the first Intel MeteorLake is more powerful than expected. I'm assuming it gets similar driver updates as their ARC GPUs...

Unfortunately, it is the current principles embedded in human society that are most suitable for its animal nature. Therefore, no matter what is done (any revolutions are often made by romantics and generally principled people, and werewolves and villains use the fruits) in an attempt to improve it - everything returns to normal. What the events since 2020 (and in general after 1990) have qualitatively shown. Social progress was essentially a bluff. People still remained social animals, easily manipulated and easily amenable to stupid propaganda, despite all the technological progress, access to information and computing power available to the individual for complete free self-education, which no one could even dream of 100 years ago.
Reasonable remnants of the population observe in real time the lack of common sense and critical thinking in the majority of the world's population. And nothing can be done about it.

People do not need education and individualism based on personal critical thinking - people need a flock, just like them, who will shelter in case of danger and ask them, if necessary...

@NikoB: I agree. It's just a consequence of capitalism. Things are not done for the wellbeing of society but only for the profit of a few ones.

I'm not a friend of capitalism and the monetary-system. In fact I also dislike that GPU manufacturers "offer" like 10 types of GPUs. A lineup of like 10 cards ranging from crap-GPUs to top-GPUs is just another symptom of capitalism, because it builds on top of capitalism dividing the people in rich and poor.
In a healthy society there would be no need for that, because there wouldn't be rich and poor. There would only be made a small lineup of cards depending on its purpose (maybe 3 cards overall). There would also be no need for a competitor because improving their products would be a natural urge from the people.

The whole matter could be extended hugely, but it would probably too much for this topic. But the truth is, that we live in a sick society.

But this is the same "capitalism" - the most important thing is profit, and not the progress and development of mankind for the better. These factors are secondary and unimportant for the capitalist system. If stagnation will bring profit (as Intel did for many years after 2011-2021), then why rush if there are no worthy competitors? But there are no competitors, because society and its civil institutions for protection against monopolies and oligopolistic collusions do not work, i.e. antimonopoly authorities do not perform their functions for society.

But what is even more surprising - if it were not for the government assistance from the United States and other countries (taxpayer money, to which Intel sells its products) to factories and research by such companies (although Intel alone has distributed more than 100 billion to shareholders in recent years, instead of investing in new research and to those same factories, and now she stood in line with an outstretched hand to the authorities - this is called in the popular language - the privatization of profits and the nationalization of losses), even Intel by now would already be bankrupt, not to mention AMD...

@Sinocelt: absolutely. If the delays keep on going for another 3-4 months, and only arrive briefly before Meteor Lake, AMD will gain nothing worth of market share.

There is also the fact, that new Intel products - when they exist - are generally faster and wider available on the market - thus Intel can surpass AMD, even if they come 1-2 months later.

And when AMD doesn't care enough about the PC-Laptop-Market, then in the end it will become a Meteor Lake PC/Laptop for me as well, even if I rather had a Phoenix. There's no point in buying products, which only slowly trickle in or hardly exist in decent quantities.

My personal impression since last year is, that AMD cares more about bringing Phoenix into Handhelds instead of the PC-Laptop-Market. Like they care more about gaining market share in handhelds (which I personally do not like, and therefore it feels like a frustrating development).

Quote from: NikoB on March 16, 2023, 15:05:21AMD fabless is a company entirely dependent on TSMC. Its market share has already begun to decline in laptops and PCs from 2022 because Intel is cutting prices and can produce 7-8 times more processors.

Then they're shooting themselves in the foot by delaying the arrival of an APU better than Intel's (if Phoenix really is better than Intel's current offerings). They may make more money on the short term by first selling off their old APUs, but at the long-term cost of market share. If Phoenix laptops finally start trickling out only when Meteor Lake launches, Phoenix will find it harder to shine.

AMD fabless is a company entirely dependent on TSMC. Its market share has already begun to decline in laptops and PCs from 2022 because Intel is cutting prices and can produce 7-8 times more processors. And as AMD management acknowledged in January, even though they have spare capacity at TSMC, they are deliberately holding back deliveries of new series in order to sell off old series and to maintain inflated prices for old series in collusion with laptop and PC manufacturers and large retailers, since all warehouses are full. old laptops worth tens of billions of dollars.

Therefore, AMD essentially produces, year after year, "paper" series of new processors, which become available in large quantities after 1-1.5 years, when all interest in them disappears completely from educated buyers who are already craving new series.

Buyers every year show, like donkeys, a carrot in front of their noses, tied on a pole to a donkey. The donkey goes forward, but the carrot is still there...

So much for the CES promise that the first Phoenix notebook would be available in March.