Hey @NikoB   What do you think about this laptop's screen?  https://ninkear.com/collections/best-sellers/products/ninkear-n14-notebook-14-inch-4k-touchscreen-laptop-12th-generation-intel-n95-processor-12gb-ddr5-1tb-ssd-windows-11-ultrabook

Quote from: User76 on October 02, 2023, 14:05:01Hey @NikoB I would like to know what, in your opinion, is the best laptop in the market?

It should be taken into account that I am not interested in models less than 15.6", because only there it is possible to add a full-fledged keyboard with a full numpad. Therefore, I can only objectively evaluate the 15.6"+ market. I keep an eye on the 12-14" models.

2023 is clearly a failure in this regard. Given the availability of many available, more advanced technologies and components, they were deliberately not used in mass models (even at obviously greatly inflated prices), and somewhere, deliberately, for vile marketing reasons, the capabilities of the hardware in the firmware were downgraded...

The advanced Lenovo Legion 9 was recently released (which I predicted many times before, since the deliberate degradation of the now lower series was obvious already from 2023) - there are a lot of stupid restrictions and shortcomings. At a generally, monstrous price and again 16". Even there, although no one in their right mind would regularly carry such a thing on their own hump on the street, and in a car it makes no difference - a laptop weighs 3 kg or 5 kg with a power supply - an adult will have no problem carrying that weight to and from the car.

There is no hope that things will get better in 2024 given what is happening on the planet. So you will have to choose from several types of garbage, the best from your personal point of view. And the more knowledge you have (and, accordingly, an understanding of the level of meanness and tyranny of manufacturers), the more difficult the choice, no matter how paradoxical it may sound from the point of view of an ordinary person without any competencies.

If you want to know what I theoretically consider the standard of a working mass-produced laptop for the home in 2023 (and even in 2024) (not for the street), I have already described this many times in previous comments under various reviews:
Today it is optimal to have a semi-matte 18" 16:10 4k@120Hz IPS at home with a real native contrast of at least 1500:1+ (with multi-row backlighting that eliminates backlit lighting, but not miniLED - it has problems or miniLED, but with the ability to turn off multi-zone backlighting in one that works like a traditional one) and at least 100% sRGB (of course, 95%+ AdobeRGB is better, but this is more likely for professional models).

With a full keyboard (key travel of at least 1.8mm, with good tactile feedback and as silent as possible) with a full classic numpad. Including the size of all keys, including the numpad and the Esc, F1..F12 block.

With a full set of ports, as stated in the SoC and chipsets - for example, in laptops with Zen4 Phoenix (7x40x series), two built-in USB40 ports must be brought out symmetrically (left and right) to the body, and also symmetrically 2 USB-A 3.2 Gen2 ports (10Gbps), minimum RJ45@ 2.5Gbps. Separate power supply via a round corner plug (usb-c only as a reserve for charging and operation out home), because It is much more reliable and durable than USB-C and does not stick out perpendicular to the case. Of course full HDMI 2.1 at 48Gbps.

Quiet CO, flexibly adjustable according to cooler speed, i.e. noise (within safe limits, of course, so that the hardware components does not burn out), depending on the temperature, by the owner, in a light resident utility.

Removable battery because this can be critical even at home.

Moreover, there were mainstream options with 18" 4k@120Hz 16:10, both without a discrete gpu and with it, but in light versions, and not the imposition of exclusively expensive "gaming" solutions, when most buyers do not need a discrete gpu at all or are sufficient, for example, junior 4050.

Alas, with the supposed "abundance" of supply on the planet, it is simply impossible to buy an ideal multimedia/work laptop for home in such a form factor on the market with food classical keyboard. And those models that exist have a lot of stupid limitations (like a damaged numpad, problems with ports, etc.) and at the same time an inflated price, because...almost all of them that exist (and only with 2.5k panels, which are not enough ppi for 18" as well as for 16") are "gaming" series.

Therefore, tens of millions of people, I am sure of this, would gladly buy such an 18" laptop with the fastest responsive 4K screen (which is important even with banal scrolling of text in the browser, now even ordinary, illiterate, ignorant people understand me, who ridiculed me 6-7 years ago, because then there were no smartphones with fast screens, but now they have seen everything with their own eyes in mainstream and there are no more questions, except for very stupid layers), for a home for 3-5 years.

The manufacturer who manages to make a reference model will collect all the cream of the market, just like Apple once did. But Jobs is no more, and the majority of management in companies are outright career cowards and sycophants (and mostly untalented), who do not care at all about progress - the main thing is to cut the company's budget and keep their heads down. And the generations prepared for stupid consumerism through decades of efforts by marketers cannot present a deliberate rational demand - they simply do not have the brains for this. So there are no hopes left that the world will become at least rational and more perfect in the near future. Over the last 25 years there has been total degradation in all areas, from school education to science...

We quickly reached the peak of technology in the first decade of the 2000s on old fundamentals and old human capital. But the new generations, especially Z, no longer have the same drive and level of intelligence as before. Among them there are far fewer people with knowledge of natural sciences than there were before. For example, I increasingly see stupid questions like this on various forums – "is it possible to use a higher power PSU with this device at the same output voltage"? - a classic example of the complete degradation of basic school education in physics - 13-15 years ago such idiocy I haven't been on the forums, although I have been present on many forums for more than 25 years. It is not clear how this population is given a matriculation certificate after school - apparently the authorities are more than happy with this state of affairs and they contribute to this in every possible way.
And all the past achievements, experience and knowledge of mankind quickly disappear into the sands of oblivion along with the extinction of old generations. After all, books, technologies and knowledge in general are dead if there are no living carriers who can pass them on to the next generation in full volume.
Paradoxically, the degradation began most strongly in the era of the Internet, although exactly the opposite was expected, that it would sharply increase the individual and general intelligence of humanity, thanks to instant and mostly free (no matter how much the copywriters would like it otherwise) access to the extensive knowledge accumulated humanity.

Hey @NikoB I would like to know what, in your opinion, is the best laptop in the market?

Says it is 2900 in first paragraph.
Says it is close to 3700 in price section.
From the beginning it leaves out the SKU or identifying number.
The first links of most similar laptops are to 30 series.
Not a single link to this actual laptop. 

So... what laptop are you even writing about? 

This article should be taken down.  At best it's not specific to any item on the marketplace.  At worst it's deceptive and soliciting clicks to unrelated products.

Thanks to Alienware for the m18! Finally a notebook which goes to the limits (or even beyond) in terms of weight for a high quality cooling. This time I can't complain like "they wasted potential for low weight" The fans are a bit too shallow for my liking (only 1 cm?) but I understand that the weight prevented them to make the chassis thicker.

I am still a bit disappoinnted. I had hoped for a thicker version of the X17's fan system though. Instead the went for only 2 big fans, one small and one tiny toy fan.

What I am even more disappinted is that they cut cost on the cooling for the affordable 4060 and 4070 model reducing the amount of heatpipes and remove the Gallium liquid metal on GPU and/or CPU if I am not mistaken? Does that mean that a repasting will be neccessary after a few years? And how to do that??

Why do you cut costs at such essential parts like heatpipes and liquid metal? I would love to get rid of the LED light ring but I want best cooling for lowest fan noise while gaming!

I am more excited for the m16. This is lighter than the m18, but still pretty heavy which is great! I hope for good cooling on this as well, although it will lack liquid metal and amount of heatpipes on the lower end, but more affordable models as well :-(

내가 보기엔 역대급 무게인 3.9kg인 이동성이 전혀 보장되지 못하는(어떻게 보면 그낭 데스크탑이 성능면에서 더 확실한) 발열량 최고의 희안한 괴물리뷰에 레이팅이 91이 나올 수 있는지 심히 궁금합니다.

We need numbers for the 1600P screen, maybe it's not just the resolution that's improved...?
----------
Ugh, never mind, I looked it up and it only promises 300nits+. Incomprehensible.

If the numbers in the review are correct, you can immediately see that the screen of this "premium" model is mediocre, greetings from the 2000s.
The contrast is so-so, the brightness too, the response time is monstrous for "480" - there should be no more than 2.5ms on B2W / G2G, but we see 4 times higher. Ppi is monstrously low by today's standards - in chrome all text will be 100% blurry with wrong black and white anti-aliasing.

The keyboard is completely screwed up, as usual with the Chinese (which is unusual for the American model) - the right arrow in place of insert, which destroys blind typing and navigation with it automatically.

About manual control of coolers - not a word. Not a word about the turn-on threshold for coolers from the factory. What prevented me from measuring these thresholds and explicitly laying out these numbers on auto-profiles and in manual mode, if any.

From the review it is not clear if the RGB backlighting of each button on the keyboard is independent. Also, the actual key travel is not clear, although it is stated that everything is cool.

There is an obvious flaw on the case - there is no port on the right - but for the usb transmitter of mice, because. not always everyone will be satisfied with models with BT. With such a huge body, I would like to have a hidden compartment for this beacon, as in some Lenovo.

In general, there was a good home version of an 18" laptop with a 4k@144Hz eDP2.0 panel and a normal keyboard like the Legion in terms of the location and composition of the keys. But again, the case is huge - and the Esc, F1..F12 keys are narrower in height - what the hell, Dell?

Memory timing tuning, according to AIDA64 tests, could be better from the factory, reading is much faster than writing and copying.

It can also be seen that, according to the assessment in the review, the sound quality on the speakers is too low, given the huge body and the "premium" segment of the model.

Consumption at rest, even in the most energy-saving profile, is a monstrous 21W. Something needs to be done about it...

With a weight of more than 5kg, it is obvious that this is a model for dragging only through the rooms of the house or transporting it to a country house, no more. Occasionally somewhere on business. And if so, it should be as close as possible in terms of comfort to the level of the desktop - screen, keyboard, minimal noise.

All manufacturers in 2023 continue to engage in crazy "design" from the insane, but not real ergonomics for the eyes, hands, body.

To whom are you going to sell all this, and even at such prices? In a rapidly jacking market?

Give us a full-fledged keyboard with long travel, elastic tactile, RGB backlit each button independently,
screen 18", 4k 16:10, 500 nits, G-Sync, HDR400/DV, with native contrast ratio of 2000:1 and real 10-bit matrices. With a response of no more than 6ms on G2G/B2W. Normal port layout (2 audio jacks on the left and on the right, so that it is convenient for both right-handed and left-handed people) - it is desirable to have an optical spdif, including a dedicated port for the mouse transmitter on the right and left, because back or on the other side, the signal is muffled more and the battery runs out faster, and the mouse works less clearly with poor signal.

Give manual control of coolers up to 75C - complete shutdown of coolers and complete silence in normal load, outside of games - further, after 75C, let automatic control work.

Of course, with such consumption in 2023, it is not possible to make an ergonomic laptop, but at least you need to make it pleasant in normal use outside of games. And here it is not, and close for a price of $ 3,000 ...

So in terms of performance of a desktop replacement, this is as good as it reasonably gets, much better value than Razers, and by reasonable I mean coming in a form that looks like a premium consumer product, not a lawnmower. It even has an optional mechanical keyboard. Downside is that the screen is sorely inadequate, it should at least meet HDR500, at 4K. At least there needs to be the option, but again no.

Quote from: RobertJasiek on April 03, 2023, 04:45:20The review writes "CPU temperatures are also extreme even for a gaming laptop." but under Pros lists "good temperatures when under load". Only one of these observations can be correct. Another reviewer has identified one hot CPU core indicated bad pasting in a new Alienware. I feel less informed in this review.

By good temperatures I believe he means external temperatures, but I agree on the other points, for a pretty important product(as in basically state of the art), this is a pretty bare review.

"similar to the desktop GeForce RTX 4070"

This is a typo for 4070TI.

The specs lists the price $2900, the Price section lists $3700. Only one of these prices can be correct.

The review mentions only a few bugs of the Control Center and writes "loads unusually slowly at times". Another reviewer (of the m16) has specified this as up to 3 minutes, which gives a much better impression of how unusually slowly it does load at times. That reviewer has also found other bugs, which this reviewer may not have found because he has not tested every feature of the Control Center.

The review writes "CPU temperatures are also extreme even for a gaming laptop." but under Pros lists "good temperatures when under load". Only one of these observations can be correct. Another reviewer has identified one hot CPU core indicated bad pasting in a new Alienware. I feel less informed in this review.

The review mentions four fan modes but there are six, aren't there? Some may be hard to discover because one has to navigate with < or >. As a consequence, it is unclear whether the GPU under load could be used with significantly less noise in another fan mode, especially a custom mode.

The review mentions Balanced fan mode, states that GPU speed would be only 5% less but does not state its noise under GPU load. Therefore, we do not know if noise is similar to Performance or significantly lower. We have seen new notebooks for which three medium / upper fan speed modes have almost the same noise and other new notebooks for which a mode like Balanced would dramatically decrease the noise. Hence, it remains unclear whether the review's impression of the "always loud" is right or the notebook can be used with acceptable noise at still impressive speeds.

The review leaves these central ambiguities. From another review, I already knew about bad CPU pasting and bugs. However, even if Dell fixes these aspects, the review does not enable my purchase decision with respect to noise. It would be naive to follow the reviewer's paradigm that necessarily the notebook would be too loud - instead much fan modes require more noise testing, especially of GPU loads not only of Witcher 3.

Only let down is that its not a high DPI, I would still buy the 1600P panel instead. But yeah, this panel is pretty good. I've seen faster response times, especially on OLED, but that often has horrible PWM.

Wow, that's a nice panel! Excellent colour accuracy, fast, bright and no PWM!

I don't see the v3.3 Classroom Blender GPU Optix result despite being listed the CUDA and the CPU version. Missed?