As usual, the troll misses the main point - the minimum configuration for today for a working laptop is 32GB. People who are really engaged in work are increasingly putting 64GB right away.

Therefore, models with 16 GB are cheap trash, and for 32 GB, manufacturers brazenly ask for 2-4 times more than if you buy the same amount in retail, and with a 5-10 year warranty, and as part of a laptop, the guarantee will be a maximum of 1-3 of the year. As with SSD - a separately purchased SSD comes with a 5-year warranty, and most often 1-2 years as part of laptops. Thus, it cannot even cost as much as it costs in retail with a 5-year warranty. It should be 25-35% cheaper as part of a laptop with a much lower warranty, because this dramatically increases the risk of the buyer beyond the laptop warranty of 1-2 years, most often. As well as working memory. But it is on large (i.e. really adequate) volumes of installed RAM and capacious ssd options that impudent manufacturers (and retailers) make the main margin, because the majority of the world's population is not able to upgrade on their own, and besides, they will have to throw out factory components, t .To. it is much more difficult to sell small sizes of RAM sticks and SSDs at a flea market, and besides, they cannot be sold if something happens to the laptop within the warranty period - they will have to be replaced before being sent under warranty. And in models with soldered memory, the buyer has no chance at all to increase the amount of RAM and sometimes even SSD (as in Apple, for example), i.e. in this case, the buyer is a priori forced to take the older model, but it is always inadequately expensive compared to the younger one, if we compare the same difference in the price of RAM or SSD in retail (especially given the increased warranties in retail, compared to the warranty on components laptops).

This situation leads to the fact that on many models, buyers automatically put a red fat cross.

Quote from: Adorf P. on July 03, 2023, 01:38:57Soldered RAM on a Thinkpad T is outrageous. No words.

How exactly would you upgrade an LPDDR5 RAM? How would you use it all if not soldered? LPDDR comes only in BGA packages rather than DIMMs. In fact LPDDR has never had DIMMs, not in 1 not in 5 not in anything in-between.

RAM is upgradeable on T14 Intel just fine. But it's DDR5 4800 instead of LPDDR5 6400. If they used DDR5 4800 for AMD then performance would be solidly weaker than Intel (Ryzens are hungry for fastest RAM possible), thermals would be slightly higher than currently and battery life would be about the same as with Intel. Then people wouldn't be happy again so whatever they (Lenovo) do it's not good, someone will always be unhappy.

With LPDDR5 6400 you get about 15% better performance over DDR5 4800 just on the 680M iGPU alone. Check the video: youtu.be/F7VV_PxuLws

Soldered RAM on a Thinkpad T is outrageous. No words.

I wrote data by mistake for T14s series.

T14 best variant AMD (WUXGA Low Power (non-touch), AMD Ryzen 7 PRO 6850U, 16GB LPDDR5, Win 11, 52.5Wh battery):
Configuration 1 (max battery life)
MobileMark 2018: up to 14.6 hr with 595 performance score @200nits
MobileMark 25: up to 13.5 hr with 513 performance score @250nits
JEITA 2.0: up to 21.1 hr @150nits
Local video playback: up to 18.1 hr @150nits
----------------
T14 best variant Intel ((max battery life): WUXGA (non-touch), Intel i5-1240P, 8GB soldered, Win 11, 52.5Wh battery, best power efficiency power mode Alternate configuration
Configuration 1 (max battery life)):
MobileMark 2018: up to 10.0 hr with 791 performance score @200nits
MobileMark 25: up to 8.2 hr with 601 performance score @250nits
JEITA 2.0: up to 19.9 hr @150nits
Local video playback: up to 15.1 hr @150nits



---
I emphasize once again that the VP9 hardware decoder in the 4k@60fps mode at Intel loads the processor and the integrated video chip much less than at AMD. And in this (the highest quality video viewing mode on the fhd screen), AMD may well lose in terms of autonomy. Very significant. Lenovo tests were done in poor fhd resolution, in which almost none of the competent owners watch videos on YouTube for a long time, on fhd screens, if the video source is 1440p and higher.

Google itself has officially confirmed that the quality of video in fhd resolution is much worse than in 4k on the same fhd screen. This is a long-known technical trick to force the YouTube service to transfer more data per pixel to you than the default fhd mode for illiterate ordinary people, choosing a source in 1440p+ mode (4k is better) where it is.

Therefore, NB tests for viewing in poor fhd resolution have been meaningless for many years. Only tests at 4k@30-60fps make sense for real battery time with good streaming video quality.

To NikoB

You have presented the datasheet information wrong. According to Lenovo datasheet, Intel version

Intel i5-1250P, 16GB LPDDR5, Win 11, 57Wh battery, best power efficiency power mode
MobileMark 2018: up to 10.0 hr with 1066 performance score @200nits
MobileMark 25: up to 7.2 hr with 712 performance score @250nits
JEITA 2.0: up to 15.3 hr @150nits
Local video playback: up to 14.8 hr @150nits

Official datasheets for AMD/Intel series:

WUXGA Low Power (non-touch), AMD Ryzen 7 PRO 6850U, 16GB LPDDR5, Win 11, 57Wh battery, best power efficiency power mode, (max battery life):
MobileMark 2018: up to 19.52 hr with 707 performance score @200nits
MobileMark 25: up to 18.18 hr with 564 performance score @250nits
JEITA 2.0: up to 22.98 hr @150nits
Local video playback: up to 22.1 hr @150nits

-------------
Best by time Intel configuration choose by Lenovo:
Intel i5-1250P, 16GB LPDDR5, Win 11, 57Wh battery, best power efficiency power mode
MobileMark 2018: up to 13.6 hr with 978 performance score @200nits
MobileMark 25: up to 10.8 hr with 669 performance score @250nits
JEITA 2.0: up to 24.0 hr @150nits
Local video playback: up to 18.1 hr @150nits

But when playing 4k@60fps on YouTube, AMD loses to Intel by battery time, because load per  igpu+cpu is higher in VP9/AV1 mode...

What do you think for office and home purposes, which is better to choose T14 AMD Ryzen 7 PRO - 6850U or T14s Intel Core i7-1260P

The non-user replaceable keyboard in the T14s seems bad news.  Keyboards do, eventually, stop working properly.

You made a few mistakes in your comparison:

- T14s and T14 do not have the same mainboard. T14s shares its mainboard with the ThinkPad X13, while the T14 has the same as the T16

- They do not have the same battery. T14s has a 57 Wh battery, T14 has a 52.5 Wh battery (optional 39.3 Wh battery on some models of the T14 G3)

T14 G3 also has a user replaceable (so called top-load) keyboard, while the T14s G3 has a non-user replacable bottom-load keyboard that is embedded in the palmrest. Unlike the T14s G3, the T14 G3 has an Ethernet port.

On the other hand, as you noticed, the T14s G3 is more lightweight. This is due to the materials used, the base unit of the T14s G3 is completely made out of metal (Magnesium and Aluminium) while the screen cover is made out of Carbon fiber plastic. The T14 G3 uses cheaper and heavier glass fiber plastic for the base cover and screen cover. So not only is the weight better of the T14s, but also the build quality. We also rated the input devices of the T14s to be slightly better.

A big difference you did not mention is the fan noise, as the T14s G3 AMD we reviewed stayed significantly more quiet than the T14 G3.

Quote from: Benjamin Herzig on January 26, 2023, 21:54:42One is the T14 G3, the other is the T14s G3, two completely different models

This is what I see, comparing the 14 with the 14s, as reviewed.  Same processor.  Same graphics adapter.  Same display.  Same mainboard.  Same webcam.  Same battery. Same case. 

• Same RAM size, but T14s has slightly different unit (quad core v dual core).
• Different connections (1 USB 4 v no USB4)
• 3DMark Performance – T14s slightly lower
• T14s has better temperature performance, particularly at bottom of case.
• Slightly lighter.

Same price on your site, very different price on UK Lenovo site (£952 v £1,129)

For me the difference in heat output is the most important (if correctly measured). I hate hot machines. Otherwise it seems quite a large price difference for rather similar specifications.   

One is the T14 G3, the other is the T14s G3, two completely different models

This review of the Thinkpad T14s G3 AMD Ryzon Pro 7 laptop gives it a rating of 89, while the review of the almost indistinguishable model on 01/19/2023 gives it a rating of 91.  May I know if this difference is just a difference of opinion between two writers, or if there is a substantial difference between the two reviewed models?

Is there any model remaining with 1.8 mm key travel?

Quote from: Pascal76 on September 26, 2022, 20:32:12I own this PC.
I like it but the bluetooth does not work (it disappears suddently quite often... you have to reboot)
This impacts this device and some other ones using the AMD CPU (X13, T14s)
I also had a wake up issue and a flickering issue (just once).
I hope all that will be fixed.

What does your laptop idle at? Mines idling at 6-8w with nothing running and im not too sure why. With chrome it takes me up to 10w which is absolutely killing my battery life.

I have this exact spec laptop, but idle for me is ~6w, never below 4ish for some reason. Tried reinstalling drivers etc. Not too sure what the issue is. Waiting for a replacement and hopefully the issue is resolved.