Quote from: CraigK on February 27, 2023, 23:23:44My son worked on the Panasonic side of the the Gigafactory right after it opened. He had just graduated with a mechanical engineering degree when hired. He felt as though they were just glorified maintenance or service workers. Now he could tell me me a new story each day about how bad the place was with employees just hiding and sliding. Some would put more work into getting out of work than if they had just done their job. Now those can be normal growing pains for any business just starting up and having to work through the dirt bags. But by far the thing that disturbed me the most was that the Japanese really didn't want to give up any of their manufacturing secrets or shortcuts. The Tesla side was an open book but Panasonic would literally have people flying back to Japan and bringing parts back in their luggage so they could fix machines. No there are plenty of machine shops in Reno or Sparks they could have sourced the parts out to by simply sending the CAD drawings over. But they really wanted to hold on to control. Then the cultural difference where most of the Japanese crew would really just stick to themselves. My son said they were definitely hard workers but if an American worker had Tattoos they were thought of as thuggish or problematic. Panasonic seems like a decent company the benefits packages were good but my son left after about a year to a company where he felt he could apply his degree more. With the announcement that they will be building the big rigs here that just means a crap load more of out of state people will move here and create more problems. The roadsides are dirtier than ever the amount of homeless has skyrocketed and crime has certainly outpaced the growth. Some will call it progress but it just makes me want to move deeper into the mountains.

The Japanese themselves are now in a complete impasse, including creative personnel.

Literally last week they changed the legislation, which now allows foreign students to look for work in Japan for not 90 days, but 2 years. They changed the conditions of a residence permit up to 1 year from 3 years for specialists who have a degree and earning more than 149k$ per year. While ordinary people have been waiting for a residence permit there for 10 years. They have already forced to accept more than 6 million foreign workers, because their nation is bent in their own juice. This is what the closeness of the nation does is a gradual existential loss of more open society. Even the Arabs could not stand it and realized that this was the path to nowhere ...

What do you expect from US work force nowadays do nothing but on social media LOL WTF RMAOF etc all day???

IDK, maybe Nevada had lots of manufacturing experience and skills to lose, but I don't remember and big manufacturing facilities there. It's certainly not a traditional manufacturing powerhouse.

Panasonic pulled out of the Buffalo facility which was supposed to make solar panels for Tesla. Tesla was supposed to create thousands of jobs. Never happened.

Quote from: JohnG on February 27, 2023, 08:07:30I would say the site selection of Nevada was a huge factor instead of one of the manufacturing states.

For sure. I worked for a few years at a CNC shop when I was younger, and both my adult sons are now working for different auto suppliers.
Why yes, I am from Michigan.

Quote from: PRR on February 27, 2023, 19:22:19I'm sorry, US workers have lost edge? The batteries are made on high speed automated machines. NO WORKERS NEEDED
Google how tesla batteries are made

The fact that you think those machines build, operate, maintain and repair themselves kind of proves the point of the story.

My son worked on the Panasonic side of the the Gigafactory right after it opened. He had just graduated with a mechanical engineering degree when hired. He felt as though they were just glorified maintenance or service workers. Now he could tell me me a new story each day about how bad the place was with employees just hiding and sliding. Some would put more work into getting out of work than if they had just done their job. Now those can be normal growing pains for any business just starting up and having to work through the dirt bags. But by far the thing that disturbed me the most was that the Japanese really didn't want to give up any of their manufacturing secrets or shortcuts. The Tesla side was an open book but Panasonic would literally have people flying back to Japan and bringing parts back in their luggage so they could fix machines. No there are plenty of machine shops in Reno or Sparks they could have sourced the parts out to by simply sending the CAD drawings over. But they really wanted to hold on to control. Then the cultural difference where most of the Japanese crew would really just stick to themselves. My son said they were definitely hard workers but if an American worker had Tattoos they were thought of as thuggish or problematic. Panasonic seems like a decent company the benefits packages were good but my son left after about a year to a company where he felt he could apply his degree more. With the announcement that they will be building the big rigs here that just means a crap load more of out of state people will move here and create more problems. The roadsides are dirtier than ever the amount of homeless has skyrocketed and crime has certainly outpaced the growth. Some will call it progress but it just makes me want to move deeper into the mountains.

Tesla reinvented battery nomenclature on purpose.  For example, what is shown as an 1865 is an industry old standard 18650.  They have varying capacity and reliability.  Also available in button tops and flat tops.  The 18650 is still very popular in consumer devices today.

I'm sorry, US workers have lost edge? The batteries are made on high speed automated machines. NO WORKERS NEEDED
Google how tesla batteries are made

NikoB, you make some good points, but it's not just science and technology. We are not robots, that's the point right? An increased emphasis on social studies, and other areas where we can understand each other and each individually better learn the nuances of human populations so strife can be better overcome without just blanketing it with more low quality jobs or technological distractions. As long as there is injustice, there will be problems, and that injustice isn't solved by jobs or technology.

lol, sounds exactly like why some mirrorless cameras have gotten needlessly big. They should keep the grip small and efficient and release mod kits for people with big hands, as it doesn't go vice versa.

adjustment:

Society does not know what to do with the low-skilled and increasingly incompetent people, of which there are more and more on the planet.

Really high-quality education is impossible for such a mass of people, and also (more importantly) the most dangerous for the kleptocratic ruling classes, since if a significant part of the population becomes smarter in order to manipulate and control them, the ruling stratum will have to proportionally become smarter. And it will get harder and harder. Therefore, it is much more profitable for the ruling kleptocrats and the systemic aristocracy to create such learning conditions in schools and beyond, so that the population does not progress in its education, but degrades against the backdrop of the development of science and technology.

It is sad to read the news that the quality of production depends on the adjustment of the equipment to the size of the hands of the workers, where there should not have been any workers for a long time - machines and automatic machines should work.

Most of the "blue collars" are a relic of the past. They are not needed, especially those who work on assembly lines.

Most of the "white collar" candidates for departure from the "middle class", because. do not engage in any creativity that is inaccessible even to modern expert systems (which fools pass off as AI). The way corporations famously get rid of hundreds of thousands of employees speaks clearly and clearly of only one thing - most of these workers performed some routine meaningless operations that could have been automated for a long time, but the workers cost the exploiters less than setting up expert systems.

Let me remind you that according to the official version of statistics, the world's population continues to grow rapidly, despite any disasters. And allegedly increased by 2 times in 50 years. And if so, it automatically increased the competition for any tasty jobs by 2 times. And this also automatically leads to a 2-fold increase in tension, the necessary concentration and the level of aggression in society.

Most of the world's population today has lagged behind the really necessary level of competencies with the modern development of scientific and technical progress by almost an order of magnitude. At the exit from schools, more and more incompetent people come into incompetent business and fill all niches with inefficient labor, because it is important for powerful exploiters and kleptocrats to maintain stability in society in the interests of the upper exploitative classes and nothing more. All this population is essentially superfluous for a really progressing and extremely efficient automated and robotic civilization. And the total size of the population will inevitably be forcibly reduced, no matter how much the exploiters would like to counter this, it will be necessary to reduce the cheapness of the labor force standing outside the gates of factories, in view of the greater influence of such a mass of unproductive people (again - within the framework of the overall efficiency of human civilization) on the ecology of the only planet available to us for life.

Society does not know what to do with low-skilled people, of which there are more and more on the planet.

Qualitatively, education is impossible for such a mass of people, and it is also the most dangerous for kleptocratic ruling classes, because if a significant part of the population becomes smarter in order to manipulate and control them, the ruling stratum will have to proportionally become smarter. And it will get harder and harder. Therefore, it is much more profitable for the ruling kleptocrats, and the systemic aristocracy, to create such conditions for learning in schools and further, so that the population does not progress in its education, but degrades against the backdrop of the development of science and technology.

It is sad to read the news that the quality of production depends on the adjustment of the equipment to the size of the hands of the workers, where there should not have been any workers for a long time - machines and automatic machines should work.

Most of the "blue collars" are a relic of the past. They are not needed, especially those who work on assembly lines.

Most of the "white collar" candidates for departure from the "middle class", because. do not engage in any creativity that is inaccessible even to modern expert systems (which fools pass off as AI). The way corporations famously get rid of hundreds of thousands of employees speaks clearly and clearly of only one thing - most of these workers performed some routine meaningless operations that could have been automated for a long time, but the workers cost the exploiters less than setting up expert systems.

Let me remind you that according to the official version of statistics - the world's population continues to rapidly stay, despite any disasters. And allegedly increased by 2 times in 50 years. And if so, it automatically increased the competition for any tasty jobs by 2 times. And this also automatically leads to a 2-fold increase in tension, the necessary concentration and the level of aggression in society.

Most of the world's population today has lagged behind the really necessary level of competencies with the modern development of scientific and technical progress by almost an order of magnitude. At the exit from schools, more and more incompetent people come into incompetent business and fill all niches with inefficient labor, because it is important for powerful exploiters and kleptocrats to maintain stability in society in the interests of the upper exploitative classes and nothing more. All this population is essentially superfluous for a really progressing and extremely efficient automated and robotic civilization. And the total size of the population is inevitable, no matter how much the exploiters would like to maintain the cheapness of the labor force standing outside the gates of factories, they will have to be reduced, in view of the greater influence of such a mass of unproductive people (again - within the framework of the overall efficiency of human civilization) on the ecology of the only one available to us for the life of the planet.

I would say the site selection of Nevada was a huge factor instead of one of the manufacturing states.