Wow!  Bad enough that I've seen this article in multiple place in the last two weeks, but the fact that it's absolutely false it's worse.  At $.12/kwhr, probably about average for the US, cost is $2-$2.50 to charge for 100 miles.... Been doing it for two years.  Gas would cost $7.00 to drive the same 100 miles at the current prices. And I get 50/mpg!!! Gas would need to drop to $1.00 a gallon to be equal....I remember gas at or below a buck a gallon.... Late 80's and 90's.
Why such BS being spread all over the web and worse why the hate towards EV's?  Better technology is just that, better.  Remember going from cassettes to cd's?  Do you ICE lovers also strictly use corded power tools too?  Get on the bus man!

Why is notebook check having articles about this and why are you using Anderson economic as a source they've been debunked several times

Quote from: Hank50 on January 28, 2023, 02:05:34.... I paid $500 for the charger (electric supply)... It costs my six cylinder car $13.70 to go 100 miles (gas is $3.69 a gallon( lowest it has been in 6 months) and it gets 27 mpg

My car gets about 65mpg driving normally. (70mph with passengers) Driving slightly more conservatively, I'll easily hit 100mpg. Compare apples to apples, your ice car isn't very efficient, but your EV is, which is not comparable.

41 miles wouldn't make even a single one way daily trip for me, and an EV that can, would have been nearly 100% more expensive to purchase.

Was that $500 only to purchase the charger? Professional installation is generally double that, depending on your area obviously. Installing yourself isn't cheaper unless you don't value your time. It might have not cost you currency but it did cost you in time.

At 100mpg, my car is on par with an EV without having to upgrade my electrical service and installing chargers at 2 different locations. Driving at 55-60 mph isn't that slow.

This article is a total scam. My ev charging is so cheap it's almost free. There's absolutely no way the cost comes anywhere near that of a gas car. I've spent zero dollars in maintenance and very very little in charging costs.

Quote from: Hank50 on January 28, 2023, 02:05:34It seems this is one more piece of evidence that this study is way off on cost of fuel for EV traveling 100 miles.

No, it's one more anecdote. You may as well argue that since your electric rate is 0.08/kWh, that's evidence that the average electric rate is very low, or that because a medication didn't work for you, that's evidence that medication is ineffective. You're making the same mistake everyone else so far has, which is to take your specific situation, which just happens to enjoy the benefit of cheap electricity, and use that to ignore everything else and claim electric is cheaper, despite what a study shows, because it is for you. As I've already said, this study may be total BS, and if people want to point out flaws in the study itself or even cause to question it due to previous studies done by the same people that were shown to be BS, that's one thing. But you can't use personal anecdotes to do so. I find it amazing how the same people that are supposedly all about science so often and readily throw it out the window to try and make an argument.

I have owned a Chevy Volt and have driven it 42 miles a day 5 days a week for 9 yrs. I use it for short trips everyday in addition to that.  So I bought and installed a level 2 charger to avoid gas use. I paid $500 for the charger (electric supply) I have averaged 41 miles per charge. That includes 4 season weather.  It uses an average of 10.2 kWh per day.  I have electric rate of .08 per kWh.  I spend $1.63 per day on electricity verified by meter reading before charge and in the morning. That is $3.98 per hundred miles. My charger still works so that is $0.001 per day more ($0.02) per 100 miles. It seems this is one more piece of evidence that this study is way off on cost of fuel for EV traveling 100 miles. It costs my six cylinder car $13.70 to go 100 miles (gas is $3.69 a gallon( lowest it has been in 6 months) and it gets 27 mpg

Quote from: Ray_81 on January 27, 2023, 03:22:53the average price of electricity in the US is 13 to 16 cents. I pay 10 cents per kWh here in eastern PA. So if I had an inefficient SUV for an EV where I live I would still only pay $5 to drive 100 miles, and if I had a Tesla Model 3 I would pay $2.5 to drive 100 miles.

Not disputing what you're saying, nor am I saying the study isn't problematic, as I haven't looked at it and don't know, but there's another factor to consider: electricity where you are is cheap, but it's much more expensive in other places. I don't know, and could be wrong, but I'd guess it tends to be a lot more in bigger cities, the same areas where EVs are more popular/common. So while EVs in other areas may be cheaper, if the majority of EVs are in areas where electricity is also more expensive, then on average they very well could be more expensive. Of course, that's why anytime statistics are involved, careful interpretation is necessary, since statistics can be manipulated to show whatever one wants.

Quote from: Telek on January 27, 2023, 03:40:33To blindly repost a study that makes no sense without verification is journalistic malpractice.

Well, this is NBC, a site that simply reposts a lot of stuff from elsewhere and does little actual journalism of their own. Still, there are other considerations (see above) that may lend credence to the study. Also, as I mentioned previously, part of the difference between EV and ICE cost is that the former avoids road usage taxes whereas the latter has to pay them, so that alone makes the argument that EV is cheaper unbalanced and unfair. As I said above, I can't speak to this study, and it may very well be total BS, but it's funny how I've never seen someone proclaiming how EVs are better because they're cheaper per mile mention this inconvenient fact. I'd like to see how the costs compare if equal taxes were applied to electricity used to charge EVs. But instead, EV owners do more road damage (heavier vehicles and likely more miles driven) yet pay no road use tax, then brag about how cheap their cars are to drive. Another consideration is that EV tires cost more and wear out faster, which means while the "fuel" may be cheaper, when tires are factored in, EVs don't do as well as they look based on mpg/mpkWh alone. Not saying they're not still cheaper, but the whole picture needs to be looked at in order to tell for sure and, again, I can't recall ever seeing anyone arguing how EVs are so much cheaper mention that. They somehow always conveniently forget that. How about crunching those numbers again taking into account the lack of taxes being paid (i.e. free use of the roads and contributing to their wear but not their repair) and the difference in tire cost and wear? I'm genuinely curious if a truly fair comparison would still show EVs as cheaper.

Quote from: Hunter2020 on January 26, 2023, 17:57:19Current high price of gas is only a conspiracy and will drop considerably in the near future

Not according to ... well pretty much everyone. Gas prices this year should be slightly less than last year, but that's about it. It will start going up again in 2024.

Besides, you'd need to have significantly less than $2/gallon to beat the cost of driving an EV (provided that you're not an idiot when it comes to charging).

Quote from: ddssavfaX on January 26, 2023, 16:41:13it was bound to happen. people have been swayed to buy electric cars. now they can be charged for the current.

Except the study is a hit piece and completely wrong. It costs between a third to half to drive on electricity than gas. More in places with more expensive gas. Less in places that have extremely cheap overnight rates (which are a lot of places).

Quote from: kek on January 26, 2023, 17:23:25How many hours do you need to wait for it to charge?

Zero. You leave home in the morning with a full charge every day. You actually spend less time refueling your vehicle than typically driving a gas car and having to spend time filling up every other week.

This is shameful journalism. To blindly repost a study that makes no sense without verification is journalistic malpractice.

This group - which produced a similar report a year and a half ago that was widely discredited appears to have done it again, and I can't seem to find any of their methodology. It's garbage, and even a little bit of research before reposting this would prove it.

This forum won't let me post links - I just get a "The message has the following error or errors that must be corrected before continuing: 1" error. So just google "anderson economic group EV study" to see dozens of rebuttals to it.

The math is not hard to figure out. Average gas price last quarter in Michigan was, at best, $3/gal, but that's actually going up (not down). The average car on the road in that area is about 26mpg. So those numbers track fine - it costs about $11.29 to drive 100 miles, sure.

But the EV side is complete nonsense.

First off, most mid-range EVs get around 4 miles per kWh, and the average price for electricity in Michigan is $0.19/kWh. So that math is very simple - costs about $4.75 to drive an EV the same distance - less than half.

But it gets better - charging off-peak (Which is when everyone charges...) is about $0.14/kWh, or about $3.50 for the same distance. In other words, a third the price of gas.

Even during winter when efficiency might suffer, you're still less than half the cost to drive an EV than an electric.

As most of the other commenters have mentioned, this is a flawed study and should not be reported on without verifying and/or calling it out for its flaws.

In Oct 2021 the Anderson Economic Group (cited in this article) released a widely flawed and widely ridiculed study that EVs cost more over their lifetime than a similar class ICE. The many logic flaws were immediately pointed out and the study walked back. Looks like they're at it again this year. The study cited in this article (which is not linked) is almost certainly flawed. A Tesla model 3 RWD can between 3.3 and 4.2 miles per kWh. Even a less efficient SUV EV will average at least 2 miles per kWh. So let's take the worst case of 2 miles per kWh, than means 50kWh for 100 miles. For 50kWh to cost $11 as this article claims, electricity would have to cost on average 22 cents per kWh. But the average price of electricity in the US is 13 to 16 cents. I pay 10 cents per kWh here in eastern PA. So if I had an inefficient SUV for an EV where I live I would still only pay $5 to drive 100 miles, and if I had a Tesla Model 3 I would pay $2.5 to drive 100 miles. Meanwhile if I drove an ICE car 100 miles at it was a pretty efficient 33mpg car, that would be 3 gallons at $3.70 (the current price of gas around here), or $11.1. Very very different than what this Anderson Economic Group so called study says.

Looks like yet more anti-EV FUD. If you follow the money it would probably take you to an oil  or legacy auto company.

Its legit to hate on, mistrust or not be ready for EVs. But it's not legit to purposefully spread fake news portrayed as "facts" to spread FUD against a technology that is clearly better when you look at actual facts (not to mention better for the health of lungs and the environment).

Quote from: AJ on January 26, 2023, 16:46:33So the study definitely has it's faults but your analysis of it is even worst.  I own an EV and my wife has an ICE.  I mainly charge at home and have not purchased any kind of charger, I use the 120v outlet in my garage.  My calculated energy costs per "full charge" or 300 miles are around $9 from 0-100%.  Electricity rates (off peak) where I live are 12 cents per kWh.  My wifes car gets 35 miles to the gallon so going that same 300 miles would cost ~$25.71 with a gallon of gas at $3. 

And we all know one person's isolated experience in a very specific circumstance outweighs calculations done and averaged out over numerous different vehicles in numerous different locations. There will almost always be exceptions either way, because things are strictly one way or the other, but occur on a distribution. The point of this (presumably, as I haven't bothered to read the research directly and NBC isn't exactly known for doing their own research very well) is that on average, ICE is currently cheaper than electric. And frankly, that's not surprising. The same thing happened when diesel was so much cheaper than gas that a lot of people bought diesel cars and trucks, then the price of diesel went up, at least in part and likely largely due to the increased demand, making it not such a great deal anymore.

Electricity is a finite resource, hence rolling blackouts in some areas, so it should come as no surprise that a significant increase in the demand on it would cause prices to go up. And that's not to mention that a big part of what made it cheaper was that EVs have for years largely been able to avoid the road use tax, taking yet more advantage of the system while doing more harm to the roads. Closing that little loophole will do a lot to close the gap in "fuel" costs.

Quote from: kek on January 26, 2023, 17:23:25

Quote from: AJ on January 26, 2023, 16:46:33So the study definitely has it's faults but your analysis of it is even worst.  I own an EV and my wife has an ICE.  I mainly charge at home and have not purchased any kind of charger, I use the 120v outlet in my garage.  My calculated energy costs per "full charge" or 300 miles are around $9 from 0-100%.  Electricity rates (off peak) where I live are 12 cents per kWh.  My wifes car gets 35 miles to the gallon so going that same 300 miles would cost ~$25.71 with a gallon of gas at $3. 

How many hours do you need to wait for it to charge?

Zero, it's fully charged when you wake up. Much more convenient than going to a gas station every week

Current high price of gas is only a conspiracy and will drop considerably in the near future making ICE cars overall more cost effective.  When the Covid lockdowns happened, governments around the world were encouraging people to take out loans at near zero interest knowing full well most people would not be paying back those loans till years later.  The current high interest rates around the world the unfolding of the conspiracy between banks and the govs.  They artificially induced people to borrow so of course they want to reap the fruits of their labor.

Anyways it all comes down to quality of life, do you prefer cheap ICE cars or more convenient and luxurious EVs?