@Peter1111

Quote from: peter11111 on February 06, 2023, 11:29:39It's not artificial shortage. You read clickbait titles after their earnings call.



They tried to get that "mindshare" and even when they had cheaper and better product than either Intel or Nvidia they almost went bankrupt. Since like Zen 2 is clear they will hold to their margins. If anyone expect AMD to offer Core i9/7 or RTX 4090 performance at 50% the price the sorry, but this isn't charity nor stupidity.

Also AMD is NOT our friend.



They don't control Asus. Asus bought the exclusivity rights in previous 2 generations and now they did not for whatever reason. Yet there will be good AMD laptops and what Intel or Nvidia can't offer - handhelds.

And one of reasons why for gaming Intel + Nvidia combo is so popular it's mostly because Intel can get more out of their CPUs. Budget gamer wanting a cheap laptop will not care as much for battery life. If it was purely Intel marketing we would see Intel CPU + Intel dGPU during CES. Even AMD is quiet about Advantage program which has only few AMD+AMD laptops (and even as they got good reviews they likely didn't sell as well to warrant more of them).

AMD has admitted that they were providing limited number as opposed to intel trying to overload the OEMs.
You're taking a defensive stand with prejudice assuming that me and 'NikoB' are taking an anti-amd stand.
The only generation where amd had total dominance was around the time Zen 2 was released. After that intel has become competitive again. But they're still lacking in sub-15W chips and amd isn't even trying to win in the premium ultrathin market.


We were bashing amd's advertising division and management for not being able to get those design wins 'DESPITE' having superior chips.
That it is a pity that good engineering is not getting recognized because of dumb and useless administration.

Not once did I talk about them providing chips for cheaper price. Did I?
You were just trying to put words into my mouth there.
And amd has to offer them cheaper when they can't get them optimized properly and on time for comparable performance, because they had the reputation of being the 'second choice'. AMD isn't charity, nor are the laymen that make the purchase, they go for what the seller tells them or if they understand enough, the best bang for buck product. Intel will get more recommendations for sellers and OEMs because they have the power of 'money'. So amd has to provide them at lower costs.
As for nvidia, they have long pushed amd to peasant levels in mindshare, people who have never even tried amd gpus are convinced that amd has terrible drivers.

To change this prejudice is not the job of engineers.
To get new and keep the existing design wins is not their job either.
Asus and others didn't give amd those premium design wins because some people up in the management couldn't do their jobs.
Let's take a simple example.  Acer swift go with amd offers 90hz refresh rate.
The inferior intel version offers 120hz.


AMD advantage laptops too have their actual good sides, a good advertising board would try to capitalize on that to project them as much as possible and try to get design wins that way.

And intel arc is not seeing widespread adoption due to obvious reasons. But they actually have found their way to 'premium' segment through sheer marketing skills. AMD management can't do it even with better chips.
But they always get praised (management and execs) for the success of Zen when they have done virtually nothing. Zen's success is because of how good the chip is. And that's totally attributed to engineering department, if anything the management's stupidity is holding amd back.

Quote from: Russel on February 05, 2023, 20:49:17The artificial shortage is actually seof-destructive for amd.

It's not artificial shortage. You read clickbait titles after their earnings call.

Quote from: Russel on February 05, 2023, 20:49:17They don't have enough mind share in general populace because of years of intel's advertising. What they need is more design wins and keeping their place in those design wins.

They tried to get that "mindshare" and even when they had cheaper and better product than either Intel or Nvidia they almost went bankrupt. Since like Zen 2 is clear they will hold to their margins. If anyone expect AMD to offer Core i9/7 or RTX 4090 performance at 50% the price the sorry, but this isn't charity nor stupidity.

Also AMD is NOT our friend.

Quote from: Russel on February 05, 2023, 20:49:17no more surface with amd... G15 is not longer that G16 is intel, G14 is not amd advantage. M15 became the flagship and G series reduced to peasant space.

They don't control Asus. Asus bought the exclusivity rights in previous 2 generations and now they did not for whatever reason. Yet there will be good AMD laptops and what Intel or Nvidia can't offer - handhelds.

And one of reasons why for gaming Intel + Nvidia combo is so popular it's mostly because Intel can get more out of their CPUs. Budget gamer wanting a cheap laptop will not care as much for battery life. If it was purely Intel marketing we would see Intel CPU + Intel dGPU during CES. Even AMD is quiet about Advantage program which has only few AMD+AMD laptops (and even as they got good reviews they likely didn't sell as well to warrant more of them).

Quote from: NikoB on February 05, 2023, 10:08:35This is complete nonsense, which was proved by reviews of the same Legion 7 2022 on AMD and Intel - the AMD version is many times quieter and 30% more battery-powered, and this is a proven fact not even by a review, but by Lenovo's official declaration in ee psref by series.

Intel sucks and takes only the speed from the PSU, by way of wild noise. In medium load and on battery power, it instantly loses to AMD. And that's exactly what most buyers want.

But the immoral AMD deliberately holds back the production of processors (with their wild shortage on the planet) in order to keep inflated prices. They have just admitted it officially. Alas, the sweet Intel/AMD couple has no competitors for a long time, due to the connivance of the authorities in terms of illegal (from the point of view of antitrust rules) retention of key patents for x86.

Only the pressure of the population on the authorities will force them to deprive them of these patents in court and give way to the x86 market for other manufacturers.

I have never used the intel version of legion 5 pro, the one I have uses 6800h and 3070ti. The YouTube comparison was between 5i pro and 5pro with 3060 (JarrodTech and BenGKaiser), the temperature reported on the amd version was indeed higher, but yes it consumed less power. It was faster on battery too.
I was just talking about the cpu being hotter.
The artificial shortage is actually seof-destructive for amd.
They don't have enough mind share in general populace because of years of intel's advertising. What they need is more design wins and keeping their place in those design wins.
Their engineers have done a wonderful job, but the one's who pose in front of the camera like Lisa Su and Frank Azor are being applauded for what the engineers have done while they hardly have anything to do with it.. These people were meant to provide design wins and make sure that there are no qc issues and enough R&D budget is provided. But amd lost more than what they gained because of the stupidity of the management.. no more surface with amd... G15 is not longer that G16 is intel, G14 is not amd advantage. M15 became the flagship and G series reduced to peasant space.
TUF A16 became amd advantage, yet another decision that reduces it to peasant level.
The list goes on.
If they can't even see the long term indications of this, then they should just quit..

I don't expect a 3rd player like VIA to give any meaningful competition to intel or amd even if they get a chance.
I think amd would just keep doing these suicidal things as long as Lisa and gang are not changed lol. Jim Keller had his complaints too.
It's likely that ARM would replace x86 for anything other than a desktop within a few years.
If amd and intel are to get rid of those redundant instructions, maybe they can thrive unlike what happened to BlackBerry because of iphones and androids xD

Penultimate means second last.

Quote from: Russel on February 04, 2023, 20:24:31

Quote from: NikoB on February 04, 2023, 13:37:19

Quote from: Davd on February 04, 2023, 11:50:58There's a typo:The text says "36791" points, but in the screenshot it's 46791.

Конечно 46к+ - the newest "4nm" TSMC chip will certainly tear like a heating pad, the outdated Aldel Lake H. ))

It's actually competing with Raptor not Alder..
And ryzen mobile doesn't really run all that much cooler. In fact 6800h in a similar chassis actually runs hotter than the competing intel processor while being slower in both single and multithreaded workloads.
(See comparison between legion 5 pro and 5i pro and Xmg notebooks).
The power consumption is indeed lower, but thermals are not optimized, you need to use something like APU tuning utility to actually make it better.

This is complete nonsense, which was proved by reviews of the same Legion 7 2022 on AMD and Intel - the AMD version is many times quieter and 30% more battery-powered, and this is a proven fact not even by a review, but by Lenovo's official declaration in ee psref by series.

Intel sucks and takes only the speed from the PSU, by way of wild noise. In medium load and on battery power, it instantly loses to AMD. And that's exactly what most buyers want.

But the immoral AMD deliberately holds back the production of processors (with their wild shortage on the planet) in order to keep inflated prices. They have just admitted it officially. Alas, the sweet Intel/AMD couple has no competitors for a long time, due to the connivance of the authorities in terms of illegal (from the point of view of antitrust rules) retention of key patents for x86.

Only the pressure of the population on the authorities will force them to deprive them of these patents in court and give way to the x86 market for other manufacturers.

Can I also make toast with it?

Quote from: NikoB on February 04, 2023, 13:37:19

Quote from: Davd on February 04, 2023, 11:50:58There's a typo:The text says "36791" points, but in the screenshot it's 46791.

Конечно 46к+ - the newest "4nm" TSMC chip will certainly tear like a heating pad, the outdated Aldel Lake H. ))

It's actually competing with Raptor not Alder..
And ryzen mobile doesn't really run all that much cooler. In fact 6800h in a similar chassis actually runs hotter than the competing intel processor while being slower in both single and multithreaded workloads.
(See comparison between legion 5 pro and 5i pro and Xmg notebooks).
The power consumption is indeed lower, but thermals are not optimized, you need to use something like APU tuning utility to actually make it better.

Quote from: NikoB on February 04, 2023, 11:30:07It does not matter where and how many cores.

The price of the final laptop with these SoCs is important, whoever offers cheaper with similar characteristics will win sales.

And since Lisa Su herself admitted that they deliberately do not produce more processors in order to keep prices high - it is natural that their market share began to rapidly decline again in favor of Intel. And rightly so.

That was probably the dumbest 'proclamation' by any CEO in recent times.
XD

Quote from: Davd on February 04, 2023, 11:50:58There's a typo:The text says "36791" points, but in the screenshot it's 46791.

Конечно 46к+ - the newest "4nm" TSMC chip will certainly tear like a heating pad, the outdated Aldel Lake H. ))

There's a typo:
The text says "36791" points, but in the screenshot it's 46791.

It does not matter where and how many cores.

The price of the final laptop with these SoCs is important, whoever offers cheaper with similar characteristics will win sales.

And since Lisa Su herself admitted that they deliberately do not produce more processors in order to keep prices high - it is natural that their market share began to rapidly decline again in favor of Intel. And rightly so.

Why compare a 12 core one to 8 core one?
The correct comparison would be to 7840hs which is a disappointment.
Honestly apart from the addition of pcie 4.0 , usb 4.0 (which is usually missing in the laptops that supported it) and ddr 5, 6xxx series was a also a disappointment considering how it wasn't really a big upgrade. It didn't even properly address the security vulnerabilities or the high temperature issue.
The igpu though improved and more powerful actually made the consumption worse as apparent from benchmarks comparing Zephyrus g14 from 2021 and 2022 with the dgpu off.
So amd really needs to do something before they become obsolete, again.