The fact of poor scaling of Arm has long been known to specialists, otherwise it won a long time ago. But it is precisely the lack of the right to make x86 compatible processors that deprives the x86 industry of real competition, and the sweet couple Intel / AMD has reigned supreme there for the past 20 years, destroying all competitors. When efficiency, and then as ordinary patent trolls, which should have been deprived of key patents long ago.

As a civic activist and human rights activist, I have long advocated changing patent law so that it favors small start-ups, but limits the tenure of patents to 5-10 years for large TNCs, and especially those who control more than 50% of the global market in which -something sector. Unfortunately, the authorities are highly corrupt on the part of business in all countries, politicians are almost everywhere populist (and besides, temporary figures who can be blamed for the responsibility of the newly elected administration, which happens regularly, and this looks like mutual responsibility), and the Western authorities ( especially in the USA) use such TNCs as a geopolitical weapon, albeit through the fault of the stupid population and the greedy / corrupt elites of developing countries. But all the same, this contradicts their declarations and clearly speaks of the duplicity of politics and business.

It's demagogy - they don't have a license to produce x86 processors that rule the world's code base. Intel should have been stripped of the rights to these patents long ago.

I think that ARM companies don't need an x86 license because they sell 2 billion smartphones 10 times more than PCs with 250 million. Apple has a very good CPU core on AMD and Intel level, but only sells them with mac OS . Nvidia and Qualcomm do not (yet) have an ARM CPU core on Intel or AMD level.

But ARM has the efficiency and thus ARM cores can become dangerous for the x86 first in the server market. Especially Nvidia, which is the market leader with GPGPU GPUs in the data center and will soon bring its ARM Grace core to the server market.

AMD doesn't develop any ARM cores either, because they also say that according to AMD, the difference between x86 and ARM is only small at around 5%.

With a global market share of more than 50%, TNCs should automatically lose key patents in all countries without exception, against the will of their beneficiaries.

Let me remind you that private property is not absolute even in the USA. Any of its owners can be deprived of it by the court.

Quote from: JKM on February 02, 2023, 16:53:20A functioning and fair competition does not mean competing with the lowest prices. ARM companies (Apple, Qualcomm, Nvidia, MediaTEK,...) also have the option of equipping low-cost notebooks.

It's demagogy - they don't have a license to produce x86 processors that rule the world's code base. Intel should have been stripped of the rights to these patents long ago.

Und schon wieder keine Verbesserung bei der integrierten GPU, 4 Jahre lang IntelXe ohne nennenswertes Upgrade.

It is not immoral dirty collusion in its purest form because AMD is not helping Intel but its motherboard and notebook OEM partners who also bought their CPU, SSD, DDR components dearly during the Corona pandemic.

For the last 5 years, AMD has primarily been competing fairly via high performance. Secondly, an equally good or better price-performance competition compared to the very expensive Nvidia GPUs and Intel CPUs. AMD ended the price war 10 years ago because the population preferred to buy the expensive and faster Intel CPUs and Nvidia graphics cards. AMD only offers what the customer wants.

A functioning and fair competition does not mean competing with the lowest prices. ARM companies (Apple, Qualcomm, Nvidia, MediaTEK,...) also have the option of equipping low-cost notebooks.

pcworld.com/article/1499957/amd-is-undershipping-chips-to-keep-cpu-gpu-prices-elevated.html

Immoral dirty collusion in its purest form, in the absence of real competition in the sector, collusion with AMD, which is just Intel's pad from the actions of the anti-monopolists, although now Intel does not care about the anti-monopolists in times of escalation, imperialism and isolation ...

But the main fault is on the banking mafia and most of the stupid population that supports the actions of this mafia through the choice of populists and scoundrels who do not pass laws to eliminate the possibility of issuing and living within their means, in real pure capitalism, where everyone is responsible for their actions to the fullest, and the weak die unable to withstand the competition.

The problem is not the CPU price. It is the mountain of CPU numbers. Not only the CPU but all notebook components were bought 2-4 quarters ago at high prices. That's why notebook prices have been since 2 quarters falling so slightly. Not only AMD but also Intel have to sell significantly fewer CPUs than the notebook manufacturers sell to notebooks for another 2 quarters so that the CPU stocks go back to normal levels.

At the reporting conference following the results of 2022, AMD CEO Lisa Su said that the company has been specifically undersupplying chips for quite a long time to maintain a balance of supply and demand. In other words, AMD has held back CPU and GPU shipments to keep prices high...

Quote from: NikoB on January 31, 2023, 15:55:52Both companies are rushing about in an attempt to maintain demand and doing God knows what in practice, and at the same time, their "new" series really become massive only after 1.5-2 years, when they are no longer of any interest.

Exactly that! That annoys me a lot. I don't want the good Phoenix iGPUs in 1 year, but now - at best right after the CES presentation, or at maximum 1-2 months later. But nothing. Only a rough date like "will probably come 2nd half of the year". And like you said: in 2024 we are not interested in that anymore.


I remember that after some Nvidia presentations in the past, laptops with Nvidia chips were available right away. That's how it should be.


(P.S.: why did you answer in English to a post written in German?)

Quote from: JKM on January 31, 2023, 08:37:38Hingegen könnte die FPGA-AI-Engine beim Phönix zum a** im Ärmel werden, wo AMD mit 29h statt 19h-Video-Akku-laufzeit schon einen Vorgeschmack auf einen FPGA-Vorteil gegeben hat.

The key thing in Phoenix is not some kind of AI, which is already 3 generations behind Intel, but the presence of built-in USB40 ports, a native 8k @ 60fps decoder (VP9 / H265 / AV1). An HDMI 2.1 port (finally, but again, complete silence over its bandwidth - how much is real there?) And DP 2.0, but again halved in bandwidth.

And support for 256GB of DDR5 5600 (128x2) memory, which Intel does not have and is not even in the top 7945HX, on the outdated "5-6 nm" technical process, which for some reason only supports 64GB of memory, which is very strange.

Moreover, Phoenix on the new technical process does not have a pci-e 5.0 bus, unlike the 7x45 series, on the outdated technical process.

AMD has enough madhouse in 2023 ...

Both companies are rushing about in an attempt to maintain demand and doing God knows what in practice, and at the same time, their "new" series really become massive only after 1.5-2 years, when they are no longer of any interest.

We are now discussing processors that will become mass-produced in laptops only at the beginning of 2024. That is, we are discussing a spherical horse in a vacuum.

Obviously, AMD with the Zen4 Phoenix beat the Raptor. But only on paper. That's when it will be massively on paper, as well as 15.6+ models with 6800U/6850U, which we did not wait for in 2022, and in 2023 we are no longer interested in them, then we can have a discussion about who is in charge here.

The main one whose laptops are massively in stores and who buy ...

I don't see any difference with 1260p at all. Everything again rests on PL1 / PL2, and the noise of the laptop is directly related to them, and the more compact the model, the worse it gets in terms of noise.

Intel continues to sell us obsolete 10nm+++++++, instead of AMD's already "4nm" in the 7x40 series with Phoenix.

One problem - there are NO 15.6"+ laptops on the market even with 6680/6850U in mass quantities, because AMD is not able to mass-produce cheap processors - it has become a completely paper company. Yes, and Intel, if you look - you can find tasty models at 1240p (1250 ) and on 1260(1270) in 15.6+ is practically unrealistic on the market in any country, including the USA.

So both companies can continue to tell us tales about their new series, which will actually hit the market en masse at best by mid-2024...

Amen.

Der top AMD-Prozessor Ryzen 7 6800u für leichtere Laptops und mobiles Arbeiten ist einfach sehr rar.

Das kann auch andere Effkte haben.
Ein Rembrandt-Notebook zu entwickelt setzt gegend LPDDR5-Kapazitäten voraus. Alder-Lake & Raptor-Lake kann auch LPDDr4 nutzten. Dazu muss das Notebook wegen LPDDR5 statt LPDDR5 mit höherem Aufwand entwickelt werden, anstatt nur mit einem kleinen Bios-Update. Mit 250 Intel-Notebooks und 250 AMD-Notebooks ist ein Generationen-Wechsel für die OEM-Notebook-Hersteller als wie vor 3-5 Jahren 50-100 AMD-Notebooks.

Dazu war ein 155mm²-Lucienne oder ein 175mm²-Cezanne weiterhin in Sachen effizienz dem Alder-Lake überlegen, die eine gleiche oder ähnliche Effizienz wie dem 210mm²-Rembrandt hatte. Also, wozu eine Notebook-Model aufwendig mit Rembrandt updateten, wenn man mit einen güngstigern Lucienne die Notebooks zum selben Preis verkaufen kann. Vorallem fällt die Rembrandt-Einkäufe zu einer Zeit, inder der Markt nicht genug CPUs haben konnte. Und da machte es für die Notebook-Hersteller in vierlei Hinsicht, weiterhin zum kleinen 155mm² und 175mm²-Cezanne zu greifen und die Old-Gen weiterzulassen, anstatt sich auf Rembrandt zu stürzen. All das Ändert sich ab Mitte 2023, wo AMD vielleicht wieder 5nm-Kapazitäten bei Bedarf nachbestellen kann.

Dazu stellt sich die Frage, wie start Intels Marktmacht/Finanzmacht noch beim Next-Gen-Start und Desgin-Wins ist. Mit 1-2 Mrd. $ Verlust ab 1Q-2023 muss Intel Früher oder Später massiv Einsparen. Intel glaubt offensichtlich noch, dass sie ab Mitte 2023 mit ihren dollen Produkten (Raptor-Lake, Sapphire-Rapid, ...) in die Gewinn-Zone zurückkommen werden, wenn Intel wieder so viele CPUs verkauen kann, wie der Markt verlangt. Also, zu guten Teil nicht mehr vom bestehenden übergroßen Intel-Lager der OEM-Hersteller bedient wird. Nicht unkritisch, weil Intel jetzt auf 38 Mrd. $ Schulden sitzt und hofft in paar Monaten/Quartal wieder in die Gewinn-Zone zu kommen. Also, dass der Markt nach den Abbau der Übervollen CPU-Lager wieder wie in alten Zeiten lieber zu Intel-CPUs greift.

Insbesondere durch den vermehrten USB 4 Support ist meiner Meinung nach auch das Problem, dass AMD kein Thunderbolt unterstützte, so gut wie nicht mehr vorhanden.

Eh, vorallem wird USB 4.0 beim Rembrandt auch nicht soooo viel eingebaut, sodass der Bedarf von USB 4.0 aktuell scheinbar nicht so groß ist. Hingegen könnte die FPGA-AI-Engine beim Phönix zum a** im Ärmel werden, wo AMD mit 29h statt 19h-Video-Akku-laufzeit schon einen Vorgeschmack auf einen FPGA-Vorteil gegeben hat.

@Redakion: Danke für diesen Artikel. Und natürlich auch für die vorherige Intel-Effizienz-Analyse der unterschiedlichen Mobile-CPU-Serien.

Eure Notebookreviews schwanken mittlerweile stark in der Qualität, was mich sehr ärgert.
Meiner Meinung nach solltet ihr die inhaltlichen Kritikpunkte, die der User 'JKM' regelmäßig unter eure Artikel schreibt, ernst nehmen und sie euren 'Schreiberlingen' rund um den Erdball zukommen lassen. User 'JKM' hat nämlcih in den meisten Fällen recht mit seiner Kritik.

Mit diesen beiden Artikeln habt ihr aber bei mir wieder einiges Gut gemacht. Gerne weiter so

Auch wenn es viele nicht wahrhaben wollen, aber von Jahr zu Jahr ist das AMD-Notebook-Angebot deutlich besser geworden. Letzte Jahr wurde kritisiert, dass AMD-NOtebooks keine OLED und 4K-Dispalys zur Auswahl haben. Und selbt da hat sich in den letzten Monaten wieder viel getan.
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Das stimmt, und hoffentlich geht es auch so weiter. Ich habe auch keine empirische Studie gemacht, mir ist nur aufgefallen, dass für viele Laptops, die mich prinzipiell interessiert hätten, keine AMD-Option angeboten wurde oder es andere Einschränkungen bei den vorhandenen AMD-Versionen gab. Der top AMD-Prozessor Ryzen 7 6800u für leichtere Laptops und mobiles Arbeiten ist einfach sehr rar. M
Mir fallen für die meisten Laptop-Nutzer kaum mehr Argumente ein, warum man sich noch für einen Intel-Laptop entscheiden sollte, wenn es auch ein AMD-Pendant gibt. Insbesondere durch den vermehrten USB 4 Support ist meiner Meinung nach auch das Problem, dass AMD kein Thunderbolt unterstützte, so gut wie nicht mehr vorhanden.