Quote from: Starjack on January 21, 2023, 01:07:06I don't think is possible to disable E-cores on a laptop processor, not even in the BIOS. I have a Lenovo laptop with the Core i3-1215U in it. The only thing you could disable is the hyper-threading of the P-cores but that would cost the performance of the CPU. The CPU could undervolt on its own depending on how long it was use. But when you use it for games, it will give you lower framerates, unless you reboot your device. Rebooting it will allow the CPU to reset itself to operate at higher performance, about up to 28W.

You should be able to disable cores in Windows and Linux at the OS level.

Quote from: RobertJasiek on January 17, 2023, 07:13:21It would have been wonderful if there had also been tests of 1215U with deactivated E cores to actually attempt approaching the fine line between efficiency and insufficient performance. However, given that 1255U at 15W nominal TDP and 2.5W maintained surfing TDP is 2.5x faster in single thread than I need for office work, that fine line could be approached only by also underclocking and maybe undervolting.

I don't think is possible to disable E-cores on a laptop processor, not even in the BIOS. I have a Lenovo laptop with the Core i3-1215U in it. The only thing you could disable is the hyper-threading of the P-cores but that would cost the performance of the CPU. The CPU could undervolt on its own depending on how long it was use. But when you use it for games, it will give you lower framerates, unless you reboot your device. Rebooting it will allow the CPU to reset itself to operate at higher performance, about up to 28W.

One question to Notebookcheck.Net, how was a accomplished the total wattage consumption for each CPU?

Note that in the following announced sequence, there are major node or architecture changes at each step.
Raptor (1H 2023) -> Meteor (2H 2023?) -> Arrow (2024) -> Lunar (2024-2025)

If the conference presentation is correct, each major node change should decrease power consumption by a factor of 0.6 (when clock won't be changed) so the battery life should increase 1.3 times for each step in the calculation. In terms of efficiency, it is estimated that Meteor lake is comparable to M2 and Lunar lake is more efficient than M3 at the same time.

The 6800U is certainly excellent, but the problem is that we rarely see it on the market. In fact, in Q3 2022, AMD's client division experienced a devastating sales decline (which, given the timing, means that Rembrandt lost out to Alder lake). I speculate on this problem as follows:

Rembrandt dies in fab are binned as
 - majority -> 6800H, which is overwhelmed by ADL-H
 - low-voltage tolerance -> 6800U is superior, but the amount that can be shipped is limited to the production of 6800H

Instead, they are releasing large quantities of 5625U to the market, which we can easily obtain. We find that there is no interference by so-called 'mindshare'.

On the other hand, ADL-H/U allocates dies produced from the same mask to H for high-clock(good)/high-power(bad) and P for low-clock(bad)/low-voltage(good), so there is no bottleneck caused by the sorting process. ADL-U has a small die and no productivity issues, so much so that it is rare to see a selective dropout, i3 or pentium, on the market.

My own view is that AMD's strategy has failed commercially, although it has been able to satisfy those who discuss it on the forum in this way.

Quote2 atom cores = 1 Skylake w/ HT

This is not strictly true; Gracemont 2C2T delivers the same performance as Skylake 1C2T at much less power. approximately, the following three have comparable MT performance.
- Golden Cove 1C2T @ 15W
- Gracemont 2C2T @ 15W
- Skylake 1C2T @ 35W

Test results run at maximum clock are shown below.
Golden Cove 4C8T @ 4.1 GHz, 55W - ST 1687, MT 8517 [12100]
Gracemont 8C8T @ 3.7 GHz, 50W - ST 1064, MT 7692 [part of 12900K]
Skylake 4C8T @ 4.0 GHz, 72W - ST 1119, MT 5449 [6700K]

AVX512 is supported by all new Intel server lines. It's just that in the consumer segment, they, with their lagging technical processes, in the AVX512 mode of operation, could not cope with heat dissipation.

If these instructions really speed up at least some classes of tasks, in Meteor Lake Intel will most likely return the AVX512 to the consumer series. Well, or in the next generation after this.

It is the x64 model from AMD that you are currently using in your processor from Intel. They are doing things with varying degrees of success. But now AMD is undoubtedly the leader in innovation, although they only introduced the AI ��module in Zen4, when Intel already has its third generation of NeuroDSP ...

AMD has the weakest point, as I have written many times - a terribly slow memory controller. It loses from 1.5 to 2 times the Alder Lake controller even at a higher memory frequency (6400 vs 5200 in the case of LPDDR5).

But if you look at this problem broadly - both companies, as I already detailed everything in the news about Dell CAMM modules, have obvious problems with RAM bandwidth. They are much worse than what is required now. And in the case of 7945HX, the lack of speed already reaches 8-10 times, which means that both companies urgently need to look for ways to switch to HBM memory in mass systems, otherwise they will suffocate in their races to increase L1..L3 cache. It cannot fix the general problem of lack of bandwidth at times, just like the SLC cache in an SSD cannot solve the problem of read / write speed beyond it if the NAND chips themselves are too slow.

Most well-known analysts write practically nothing about this.

Quote from: NikoB on January 18, 2023, 15:49:41

Quote from: Abc on January 18, 2023, 15:38:46support legacy AVX-2/AVX-512 code.

Since when did AVX512 become a deprecated extension, and not a deliberate forced limitation for consumer Intel processors? The entire Zen4 line supports AVX512 natively. Alder Lake and Raptor Lake are NOT support this Intel extension!

Technically the big cores in AlderLake can run AVX-512. I'm sure Intel can figure out how to run it on only the big cores while atom cores do something else. It is just not favorable because with only 2 big cores the results will look bad.

Linus Torvalds once claimed AVX-512 was created by Intel so Intel can create benchmarks to show favorable results compared to AMD. Now that AMD also supports this extension and even beat Intel at this game, AVX-512 is no longer serving its purpose. This may be why Intel wants to get rid of it entirely.

QuoteWho is the technology leader? Definitely AMD, not Intel.

I don't disagree. But..

Recall AMD was also doing core stacking with the entire Bulldozer generation. They built their modules focusing on multithreaded integer performance at the expense of power and floating point performance. Intel is just taking a page out of this with AlderLake.

I think you are judging Intel too harshly. AMD almost went bankrupt in 2015. I recall when their stock dipped below $2. It took them a few years to right the ship. Intel isn't doing well right now but they may come back one day to good guy Intel.

In the end, this market needs more competition not less. AMD is taking it easy right now just like Intel did in 2013. AlderLake and Rembrandt launched at the same time last year but Rembrandt isn't available until half a year later (still at much higher prices than AlderLake). You can imagine without Intel AMD will just resell their old technology at higher prices benefiting no one.

Quote from: Abc on January 18, 2023, 15:38:46support legacy AVX-2/AVX-512 code.

Since when did AVX512 become a deprecated extension, and not a deliberate forced limitation for consumer Intel processors? The entire Zen4 line supports AVX512 natively. Alder Lake and Raptor Lake are NOT support this Intel extension!

Who is the technology leader? Definitely AMD, not Intel.

And only the absence of factories makes it a hopeless competitor to Intel, which enjoys the patronage of the American government and governments of other countries in collusion and thus circumvents the laws of real competition while retaining market share. Without these government protections and assistance, Intel has been bankrupt since 2017. =)

It's all about trade offs. Intel didn't come up with something magical that allow them to compete with AMD. They are doing alchemy with their old formulas to trade off power/extensions with MT integer performance.

The only reason why they haven't completely dumped the big cores in favor of atom is because they still need single threads performance benchmark, and they still need to support legacy AVX-2/AVX-512 code.

It has been clear from the very beginning that Intel's efficiency core is all about space efficiency and not power efficiency. In the silicon space where they would previously fit 1 Sunnycove core with hyperthreading, they can fit 4 atom cores without hyperthreading. Hence a quad-core TigerLake becomes a 2 cores 4 threads TigerLake plus 8 core atom, known as AlderLake 10/12 a.k.a. AlderLake-U.

They are doing it for core stacking. Atom cores are good at integer workloads, matching big cores at 2:1 ratio (2 atom cores = 1 Skylake w/ HT). So compared to the quad-core TigerLake, they now perform like a hexa-core with AlderLake-U on the same silicon. A hexa TigerLake now performs likes an octa with AlderLake-P.

But atom cores are purpose built cores that only prioritize integer performance. It neglects all the other x86 extensions that are nice to have, like AVX-256, AVX-512, SHA, etc. The extra stuff take more silicon space and have more leakage, which is why big cores are so complex and inefficient. If you benchmark AlderLake on AVX-2, the performance advantage falls apart.

Hammer everything into your head - any business is a priori immoral and inefficient in terms of the progress of the entire civilization, because it operates only on the basis of personal benefit, and not the general one. Freedom requires responsibility in making key decisions. But the majority, except for an extremely narrow stratum of people, as history has proven countless times, refuses to bear the burden of voluntary responsibility, preferring to demand only rights and not impose obligations, including universal ones. And in this case, this majority is no different from animals from the animal world. social animals. And the cost of their lives is automatically multiplied by zero. What we have once again observed since 2020 around the world.

p*ssport is a forbidden word in NB? Is this tyranny? ;)

Is the obligation to have and present a p*ssport a tyranny?

Is the inability to visit anywhere in the world without the permission of the state authorities of your country and the country of visit a tyranny?

The obligation to pay taxes, but not to have direct control over their spending - is it tyranny?

Is censorship on social media and forums a tyranny?

Is green technology and limiting the insane use of energy for profit a tyranny?

Is conscription a tyranny?

Judgment is tyranny? Are you against the courts?

The state is a tyrant? Are you against the state?

I'm afraid you won't have a sane answer... =)