Quote from: VZR on November 14, 2022, 00:54:51Most of requirements to an "ideal" laptop that you listed do not describe a typical "cash cow".

That's right, capitalism at the stage of the wildest imperialism has turned into a brake on civilizational progress and maximum damage to the planet's ecology, for the sake of a bunch of nouveaux riches. I am very far from the leftist ideas of taking everything away and dividing it, but everything should be optimal, taking into account the interests of the fastest positive development of civilization (in terms of the ability of individuals to obtain high-quality and long-lasting devices with a minimally fair margin) and minimal impact on the environment. The current disgusting consumerism, deliberately preached by bastard marketers on the instructions of their owners, takes the topic as far as possible away from the optimal product and minimal environmental damage.

People should receive a quality product without 200-300% markups on everything. Those. crowds of parasites-speculators "in the middle" must be eliminated a priori. Only then the goods from the factory to the counter will be optimal in price and the retail price will be as close as possible to the quality of the goods.

Speculators have long closed themselves into a special class, like the banking mafia, which is concerned only with its own interests and nothing more. To remind you that the main "official" (useful from the point of view of society) purpose of the banks' activities is to ensure the development of the economy and the development of industrial relations - effective for the development of civilization. This is the implicit "public contract" of the banking sector with the population. Like politicians and authorities - improving people's lives if it's still possible. Nothing like this has been on the planet for a long time. Any punctures of the banking mafia are simply flooded with emissions from the Central Bank (we are too big to fail - or rather our heads are more important than the economy), both in the US and the EU, as in other countries. Instead of real responsibility, these kleptocrats, fat cats, always get away with it, for what in reality should incur a guaranteed death penalty for them (but again, I am against the death penalty, because I have a good idea of the essence of any judicial system and even intentional mistakes, no one has yet been able to return a person, therefore life imprisonment in such cases without the right to parole is better) and the obstruction of their entire family for a century!

It turns out complete absurdity in practice! The richest societies and citizens with the lightest, for the most part, have not earned trillions of credit money for a long time, through the endless growth of state debts (that is, it has become not a private, but a systemic function of parasitism, with a very narrow layer of truly productive people for progress and the development of civilization) get almost any product cheaper than anyone else on the planet. And the US debts are already higher than annual GDP (and Japan generally already has 300%+!) - and again, the US Treasury Secretary, just the other day, demands to increase the debt ceiling once again insanely from Congress, instead of a sober payment of debts by the creditor and their complete liquidation, making the budget surplus - but for some reason politicians and governments of the United States and most Western countries do not have enough mind for this. Why? But debt repayments with minimal annual inflation (so that creditors do not lose the purchasing power of their capital, as it has now begun to happen rapidly and, in fact, for which it was started by the "deep state" of the West) will quickly lead to the fact that most residents of the United States and the West will immediately become live dramatically worse (which is fair until the debts are repaid and the budget becomes surplus, i.e. the population of the West will live within their means), as in Europe, so they have long chosen only populists, and not sober-minded practitioners ready to make the right, but tough and painful decisions for the crowd and kleptocrats, which was proved by the last elections in all Western countries! And reduce the overall debt and reduce the criminal intentional inflation that ruins the creditors of the US and Europe! And so successfully attributed to Russia that one sees either a collusion with the Russia authority, or a smart move on the part of the true (deep state) US rulers who used Russia's kleptocracy as a successful figure of speech and villains (they are villains - but west inflation is 100% not because of them, but the criminal actions of the banking mafia and kleptocratic circles of the West, who for decades, moreover, deliberately, like the majority of the population, turned a blind eye to violations of rights and freedoms in authoritarian and totalitarian countries for the sake of their frankly mercantile interests,

All these things are interconnected. And the laptop market is just one of the market niches where trends lead everyone to a dead end, if the civil activist layer does not provide a sufficient level of informing the illiterate crowd of ordinary buyers about what they are really being sold and what is the real price of all this. Without this, civilization quickly degrades and the crowd is easier to manipulate scoundrels and speculators. And the fact that now the civil stratum is getting narrower just led to the beginning of the general degradation of civilization on the planet. Alas, it is no longer possible to change this terrible rink of fate, the remnants of the civilly responsible layer of society in all countries of the world have too little strength.

Quote from: VZR on November 14, 2022, 00:54:51Laptops are portable PCs. Higher resolution means higher energy consumption. Potential buyers from the main focus group don't need it as it would sip too much energy.

You're lying. Because 90% of users use laptops (especially with discrete chips) from the outlet without caring about autonomy. Because they simply replace them at home and at work with desktops in the form of a mobile workplace - from outlet to outlet. The consumption of a 4K panel is ridiculous, and the price is only $30 higher than a 2.5K panel.
90% of users use laptops (especially with discrete chips) from the outlet without caring about autonomy. Because they simply replace them at home and at work with desktops in the form of a mobile workplace - from outlet to outlet. The consumption of a 4K panel is ridiculous, and the price is only $30 higher than a 2.5K panel.

Quote from: VZR on November 14, 2022, 00:54:51Besides, many people purchased a separate monitor for a home use during the COVID pandemic. Why would one still ask for a built-in 4K marketing BS nowadays? Content creators? Are they in the main focus group?

This is nonsense, because in the case of connecting a laptop to an external monitor, the whole point of a laptop is lost - a quick mobile change of place at home and carry out on another place. A good 4k panel (it easy switch to 1080p/60Hz for battery mode) with a B2W/G2G response of less than 10ms should be in every universal work laptop, and even more so in a gaming laptop.

Quote from: VZR on November 14, 2022, 00:54:51Forget it, soldered 16 gigs of RAM are everywhere, there are considered as a part of a "standard" config.

Another nonsense. The mainstream DDR4 3200 now costs $80-90 for 32Gb, which is just a penny considering the general price of laptops from the category of universal-working ones, i.e. mainstream models. DDR5 costs +50-60% more today, but few people need it yet (and the speed increase does not match its price, i.e. it will quickly fall in price). Do not solder at least 32GB+ or do not have 2 slots - cynical and redneck manufacturers and nothing more. The greed of manufacturers in this matter is phenomenal.

Quote from: VZR on November 14, 2022, 00:54:51This means extra $$$ for the second M.2 connector, higher PCB design complexity and so on.

The wiring of a large wholesale batch of motherboards for 2 connectors - within the cost of one motherboard - costs a penny. These are purely marketing perversions.

Quote from: VZR on November 14, 2022, 00:54:51TB stuff is owned by Intel, the licence costs money.

Nonsense. A license per laptop costs a few cents. At times more expensive is the power hardware for TB4/USB40 logic in SoCs on mainboards, but again - against the backdrop of the overall price of a laptop, this all costs a penny (external TB3/4 controller with power circuits for this on mainboard is retail cost ~+$35-40 for laptop from 2018!). Again, deliberate marketing restrictions-perversions. Let me remind you that the TB controller is now built into both Intel and AMD SoCs, i.e. the laptop buyer obviously overpays for the SoC logic for TB controllers, which the bastard laptop manufacturers do not allow it to use for many lmodels. Even funny Pentium Gold 7505 have TB4.0 logic! Therefore, the price of a TB4.0/USB40 port output is not higher than $15-20 per laptop. This is again nonsense against the background of the general price of most mainstream laptops, especially "gaming" models. In this case, lower the price of processors minus this logic. Make a release processors with cheaper versions without TB4/USB40. Ok? Where are they don't do it? We are being deliberately peddled with solutions that are suboptimal in price. This is vile and is a fraud in practice, thanks to the illiteracy of most of the world's population in understanding what they are being sold and how much it really costs from factory. Intel and AMD deliberately stuff SoCs with a bunch of unnecessary logic to justify the inflated price of their processors. But laptop manufacturers do not output this logic (for which we are forced to pay Intel and AMD anyway, because we cannot refuse it and buy options without it) on external ports. This is complete bestiality in reality. And a lot of people don't understand this. That's the problem. Because they are technically illiterate, and many in the Western world have too much easy money (credit at the state level) to ignore the obviously inflated price. At the same time, in third world countries, prices are even higher than in the US with lower incomes!

Quote from: VZR on November 14, 2022, 00:54:51HDMI 2.1 may require at least a dGPU

You again betray your complete technical illiteracy - all Intel SoCs have had at least 2 years of built-in support for HDMI 2.1, like AMD since Zen3+. And DP2.0 from 2021/2022 (half version).

Quote from: VZR on November 14, 2022, 00:54:51too expensive

Another illiterate and obsessive statement, not supported by anything by technical arguments, which I have proven in practice.

Quote from: VZR on November 14, 2022, 00:54:51Who needs 80 GB/s for browsing?

Everyone without exception. In order not to spoil the view with cloudy fonts in chrome at low ppi. To be sharp because of the idiot developers at Google, you need a ppi above about 220. This is provided on diagonals of 25 "+ only 8k panels. It is they who forever close the theme of sharp and clear fonts in Chromium-based browsers with diagonals from 23 to 32" approximately, i.e. the largest segment. Now people are just ruining their vision with blurry wrong greyscale anti-aliasing because of the idiots in Chrome's development department and the browsers on its engine.
If these bastards in development centers do not solve the problem intentionally, although there are dozens of accurate descriptions from professionals about this common problem in bug-trackers for many years, then it needs to be circumvented in a rough way - a sharp increase in ppi to the level of smartphones on laptop panels and monitor panels. For 15.6-17, 4k is enough, but for monitors, 8k resolution has been required for 8 years for everyone without exception. Everyone needs it.

Quote from: VZR on November 14, 2022, 00:54:51COVID made OEMs improve from crappy 720p to supreme 1080p, should be good enough for most users

Hahaha, you are again writing utter nonsense. 90% of laptops have pathetic 720p today.
Even the vaunted Legion 5 Pro 2022 has a 720p camera! WTF?! Lenovo?!
notebookcheck.net/For-gamers-and-content-creators-Lenovo-Legion-5-Pro-Notebook-Review.637076.0.html

Once again, for illiterate laymen - the minimum quality camera for quality video conferences - 2560x1440@60fps with a codec of at least H265/AV1(and very good if next H266 for 2023) level (but with support H264/VP9 for back compability) and good sensetive sensor and light/sharp optics and fast autofocus. And nothing else. This should be the INDUSTRIAL standard for 2 years on all laptops! After 4k-8k selfi cameras on smartphones, shameful even 1080p on top laptops of 2022 cause nothing but Homeric laughter and contempt for those who design them.

Quote from: VZR on November 14, 2022, 00:54:51If laptops with the latest mobile AMD chips is not available in your country of residence / region, it doesn't mean they don't exist at all.

Again lies. I proved many times in various comments over a long time that in all markets there are no multiple options for competitive 15.6-17.3" models with 6600U/6800U, as well as with Alder Lake (but there are more options, which is why Intel took back almost 7% in a year market share of an inefficient AMD company, and rightly so). Even in the USA - the main market of the planet, you can't buy anything, just open a search engine. All that is interesting and adequate - "Out of Stock". Why is it so, on the supposedly laptop market that is falling like a jack, where supposedly all the warehouses are crammed with products? Maybe they're filled with crap and not what people need?

@ NikoB,

5 cents from my side regarding an "ideal laptop" and some of your usual critical points:

1. Engineering basics
A. Every technical solution is a compromise
B. Its cost/price depends on complexity

You may want to bear them both in mind when asking about a non-4K screen and other stuff missing in a certain laptop model. So...

Spec details
2.1 Screen resolution
" Excellent contrast 4k IPS (good for work and easy switch to fast fhd mode to games/3d) screen (1400:1+), with a pixel response of no more than 10ms (minimum 100Hz VSync) on G2G/B2W. With full VRR support (24/30/48/50/60Hz mandatory)."
Too much $$$.
Laptops are portable PCs. Higher resolution means higher energy consumption. Potential buyers from the main focus group don't need it as it would sip too much energy. 4K @ 480 Hz may be a cool marketing gag but a small laptop with "Retina" resolution is not a common requirement. Modern smartphones with Retina BS last 36 hours before recharging sequences...

Besides, many people purchased a separate monitor for a home use during the COVID pandemic. Why would one still ask for a built-in 4K marketing BS nowadays? Content creators? Are they in the main focus group?

2.2 RAM size and number of RAM slots
2 memory slots (or soldered minimum 32GB from the factory without overcharging by price, exactly at the retail price of memory, i.e. the 64GB version costs +100-130$ and no more).
It got even worse with SODIMM DDR5 compared with DDR4.  Forget it, soldered 16 gigs of RAM are everywhere, there are considered as a part of a "standard" config. More than that costs $$$. Most laptops in 2022 do not have any free slots unless they are pricey models for business or gamers. Again, those people are not in the main focus groups though.

Another reason for lacking free RAM slots may be that fast SODIMM DDR5 memory sticks (> 4800 MHz) are not available in retail yet. DDR4 has been there for almost 10 years, DDR5 era has just begun.

(BTW, I saw some of your posts with complaints about high DDR5 latency values. Please be aware that LPDDR5 and DDR5 are not identical as the former is efficiency-driven and the latter is not available with 6400 MHz clocks yet.)

2.3 Number of flash drives
"Two M.2 slots for SSD."
Why? This means extra $$$ for the second M.2 connector, higher PCB design complexity and so on. Buyers looking for this option do have their reasons but they are not in the main focus group.

2.4 Ports & Interfaces
TB4.0(USB40) ports for connecting eGPUs and advanced hubs. Full version of HDMI 2.1 (48Gbps) and Display Port 2.0 (full 80Gbps / UHBR20 mode to one lane).

TB stuff is owned by Intel, the licence costs money. USB4 is pretty new and is equal to TB now. Both are available in middle-class laptops and above but not in cheap office machines. Don't expect miracles in the future in this regard.
HDMI 2.1 may require at least a dGPU (2x 4K@60Hz just as a "nice to have" feature?) -> gaming or content creation only -> too expensive, not for a focus group.
DP 2.0? Check the actual PSREF of ThinkBooks and ThinksPads. There is just a handful of Intel-based laptops with this option, DP1.4 is a typical spec. Who needs 80 GB/s for browsing?

2.5 Camera
"Webcam at least 2560x1440p with good autofocus and light sensitivity at 60fps minimum with H264/H265/AV1/H266 hardware compression on the fly"
COVID made OEMs improve from crappy 720p to supreme 1080p, should be good enough for most users.

2.6 Availability and paper launches
If laptops with the latest mobile AMD chips is not available in your country of residence / region, it doesn't mean they don't exist at all. The problem is that the EU market may not have the highest priority for laptop OEMs like Lenovo due to its profitability (see import fees), size and structure, popular models, trends and so on. More on that below.

Summary and final thoughts
Most of requirements to an "ideal" laptop that you listed do not describe a typical "cash cow". Every additional screw or connector costs $$$ for an OEM. Bringing everything from your list together may cost well beyond 2.500 €/USD. It's a huge investment for those who don't necessarily need that stuff for earning money, unlike content creators, for example. Or gamers who may want to spend that much on the hardware.

My point is that a mediocre laptop spec between say 750 and 1500 €/USD with the high selling numbers is presumably a cash cow. Not a monster machine with a premium price!

Otherwise all those OEMs would stop developing affordable models and would put all their efforts and investments in shiny useless things like 8K on a 13in display.

Something exotic like Mechrevo Code 01 Ver 2.0 (R7 6800H/2x SODIMM DDR5 slots, 2x USB4 etc.) matching some of your requirements may be a good pick for certain users. However, it cannot and will not become a game-changer as it hasn't been produced by the Dell/HP/Lenovo.

BTW, thanks for having mentioned ThinkBook 16+ ARA in one of your replies! A model with 6800U and 32GB RAM in one spec may hit Singapore once. As of now, it's not even listen on Lenovo's local site. I was lucky to find 21D1002BCD spec with 6800H and 32GB in China. Christmas may come earlier this year than usual =)

Cheers

I have already written many times that the closest standard to the ideal in terms of general characteristics (except for noise) is Legion 5 Pro 2021, as a universal laptop for work, home, multimedia and a little bit of games (without hardcore). I like the 2022 model much less, given that despite the presence of Zen3 +, Lenovo deliberately limited the availability of USB40 in models with AMD. Yes, and there was much less sense in them after the advent of Alder Lake, although they are more autonomous and quieter.

From the point of view of a working laptop without a discrete card, today (at an adequate price, of course), I like the ThinkBook 16 G4 + ARA model with 6600/6800U soldered at least 32GB and 120Hz 2.5k screen. Everything is decided by the price. Alas, Lenovo did not provide for a variant with 64GB of RAM from the factory at all.

Unfortunately, HP/Dell models are much more expensive, those that may somehow be of interest, and the Chinese versions from Asus/MSI/Acer/Gigabyte/Huawei do not even meet the criterion for a full-fledged keyboard with numpad (except for the terrible D16 2022 model from Huawei, where everything is bad, except for the keyboard), and those that are close in level to the L5Pro just also cost more.

And the parameters of a good universal laptop are described by me earlier. Compare models with these parameters and decide for yourself what is closest to such a standard.

Who is not interested in a full-fledged keyboard with numpad - the choice is much wider. But I can hardly imagine how to work effectively on such truncated keyboards, except for some types of work where it is unimportant. Well, games don't interest me at all on laptops, because. this is complete nonsense in fact, given the inability to make effective cooling and the fact that they obviously lose to any desktop. And those who focus on games, according to world statistics, occupy no more than 10% of the total share of laptops sold. And even among them, a decent part primarily focuses on the performance of the laptop, the comfort of working on them, and games are secondary, especially with such hellish noise in 100% of cases above 40dBA. There are no quiet "gaming" laptops - then what is their point? Well, except perhaps incomprehensible semi-poor students who are forced to work and play on a laptop in cramped circumstances in a hostel. Well, even shift workers at sea and somewhere else, where it's corny not to take a desktop with you.

In all other cases, if the main aim is games, the desktop definitely wins both in terms of speed and noise (the main thing) and by price.

Quote from: warkold on October 10, 2022, 00:38:00Niko, nowadays, whats the best notebook with those must have?

I am not sure that notebook with those specs and features even exists.

Quote from: NikoB on October 09, 2022, 14:29:02Another bad and overpriced product from Lenovo.

What is most striking, the author of the review put as many as 92 points to the shameful screen! Pathetic contrast below 1000:1, monstrous response for "165Hz" and even no 4k resolution with high ppi and full compatibility with fhd mode to play fhd when 2.5k resolution will not have enough fps (from 60+) with miserable and strangled 3060.

The speed of the RAM is just a total shame for this model. Even in the screenshot with the characteristics of the RAM, AIDA64 DIRECTLY writes that the memory speed is expected to be around 68Gb/s (although lpddr5 6400 have bandwidth of 6400x128~102Gb/s), but even if we accept its estimate of 68Gb/s by AIDA64, the actual memory speed just monstrously low - shameful reading is only 43Gb/s!!! Write/copying only poor 50-51Gb/s, instead of the promised 66-68Gb/s, at least! At the same time, in Intel versions with Alder Lake-H, the slower DDR5 4800 quietly gives out 67Gb/s! The outdated DDR4 3200 even works faster in many models! Even my obsolete DDR4 2666 in G5 5587 gives out 40Gb/s r/w/c after my tuning with latency ~60ns vs awful 126ns in this garbage! Lenovo and AMD engineers need to make a sepuku. Do they have honor at all?

What we have - for those who take it as a universal laptop - is soldered memory, i.e. if necessary, you can't put 64Gb RAM for work/business, although memory is now cheap even in this volume. There are wi-fi antennas of disgusting quality and, moreover, some kind of shameful cheap slow Realtek, instead of Intel AX210. Intel AX210 price only 15$!

Some of the ports are clamped with a metallic bar, and some are not clamped - it creates the appearance of vibration-impact strength, and only, in reality, it is not strong.

No USB40, i.e. it is impossible to connect advanced hubs and eGPU. It shame with "top" Zen3+!

I'm at a loss for what to pay a monstrous $2600 for. Well, for $1300-1400, maybe someone will buy it at sales seasons, when Lenovo is desperately looking for buyers for this technological garbage.

Instead of making 2-3 models, but clearly decomposed into key niches - "gaming", "universal" and "portable" variants, they rivet a lot of useless crafts.

The secret to the success of a modern laptop is simple:
1. Silence in the office load and typical surfing, i.e. when the average load on the cores is not more than 25-30%.
2. Excellent contrast 4k IPS (good for work and easy switch to fast fhd mode to games/3d) screen (1400:1+), with a pixel response of no more than 10ms (minimum 100Hz VSync) on G2G/B2W. With full VRR support (24/30/48/50/60Hz mandatory).
3. Excellent full-fledged keyboard (in the case of business and universal models). Those. a full-fledged numpad with keys of normal width. Plus normal Fx keys (Esc, F1..F12) by height, as in classic desktop keyboards. Normal tactile, elastic response, quiet enough in intensive blind printing at the same time. The touchpad is already to your taste.
4. 2 memory slots (or soldered minimum 32GB from the factory without overcharging by price, exactly at the retail price of memory, i.e. the 64GB version costs +100-130$ and no more).
5. Two M.2 slots for SSD.
6. TB4.0(USB40) ports for connecting eGPUs and advanced hubs. Full version of HDMI 2.1 (48Gbps) and Display Port 2.0 (full 80Gbps / UHBR20 mode to one lane).
6. If there is a discrete card - a dedicated miniDP port or as part of usb-c, which supports G-Sync on an external monitor from a discrete card (that is, the presence of MUX) and all other options - Adaptive Sync / Free Sync, etc. .
7. Sufficient number of ports in general and key ports (with power) location at the back of the laptop.
8. Webcam at least 2560x1440p with good autofocus and light sensitivity at 60fps minimum with H264/H265/AV1/H266 hardware compression on the fly.

That's the whole secret of a successful model in the market. The profit from such a model is provided by the MASSIVE sales of batches, i.e. the ability of effective managers to ensure high and stable quality of such models, i.e. million parties. As are smartphones market. This is where the ambush lies - "effective" managers of manufacturing companies, together with marketers, are completely unskilled and do not understand the requirements of the market, mass demand. They do not have the task of improving civilization and promoting progress, they pursue a selfish private goal - to earn the maximum, regardless of the end result. The main process drank the resources of a large company, but not the real progress of civilization and movement forward, the maximum saving of resources and the ecology of the planet, i.e. durable, quality product. That's the problem...

Niko, nowadays, whats the best notebook with those must have?

Quote from: NikoB on October 09, 2022, 14:29:02Another bad and overpriced product from Lenovo.

What is most striking, the author of the review put as many as 92 points to the shameful screen! Pathetic contrast below 1000:1, monstrous response for "165Hz" and even no 4k resolution with high ppi and full compatibility with fhd mode to play fhd when 2.5k resolution will not have enough fps (from 60+) with miserable and strangled 3060.

The speed of the RAM is just a total shame for this model. Even in the screenshot with the characteristics of the RAM, AIDA64 DIRECTLY writes that the memory speed is expected to be around 68Gb/s (although lpddr5 6400 have bandwidth of 6400x128~102Gb/s), but even if we accept its estimate of 68Gb/s by AIDA64, the actual memory speed just monstrously low - shameful reading is only 43Gb/s!!! Write/copying only poor 50-51Gb/s, instead of the promised 66-68Gb/s, at least! At the same time, in Intel versions with Alder Lake-H, the slower DDR5 4800 quietly gives out 67Gb/s! The outdated DDR4 3200 even works faster in many models! Even my obsolete DDR4 2666 in G5 5587 gives out 40Gb/s r/w/c after my tuning with latency ~60ns vs awful 126ns in this garbage! Lenovo and AMD engineers need to make a sepuku. Do they have honor at all?

What we have - for those who take it as a universal laptop - is soldered memory, i.e. if necessary, you can't put 64Gb RAM for work/business, although memory is now cheap even in this volume. There are wi-fi antennas of disgusting quality and, moreover, some kind of shameful cheap slow Realtek, instead of Intel AX210. Intel AX210 price only 15$!

Some of the ports are clamped with a metallic bar, and some are not clamped - it creates the appearance of vibration-impact strength, and only, in reality, it is not strong.

No USB40, i.e. it is impossible to connect advanced hubs and eGPU. It shame with "top" Zen3+!

I'm at a loss for what to pay a monstrous $2600 for. Well, for $1300-1400, maybe someone will buy it at sales seasons, when Lenovo is desperately looking for buyers for this technological garbage.

Instead of making 2-3 models, but clearly decomposed into key niches - "gaming", "universal" and "portable" variants, they rivet a lot of useless crafts.

The secret to the success of a modern laptop is simple:
1. Silence in the office load and typical surfing, i.e. when the average load on the cores is not more than 25-30%.
2. Excellent contrast 4k IPS (good for work and easy switch to fast fhd mode to games/3d) screen (1400:1+), with a pixel response of no more than 10ms (minimum 100Hz VSync) on G2G/B2W. With full VRR support (24/30/48/50/60Hz mandatory).
3. Excellent full-fledged keyboard (in the case of business and universal models). Those. a full-fledged numpad with keys of normal width. Plus normal Fx keys (Esc, F1..F12) by height, as in classic desktop keyboards. Normal tactile, elastic response, quiet enough in intensive blind printing at the same time. The touchpad is already to your taste.
4. 2 memory slots (or soldered minimum 32GB from the factory without overcharging by price, exactly at the retail price of memory, i.e. the 64GB version costs +100-130$ and no more).
5. Two M.2 slots for SSD.
6. TB4.0(USB40) ports for connecting eGPUs and advanced hubs. Full version of HDMI 2.1 (48Gbps) and Display Port 2.0 (full 80Gbps / UHBR20 mode to one lane).
6. If there is a discrete card - a dedicated miniDP port or as part of usb-c, which supports G-Sync on an external monitor from a discrete card (that is, the presence of MUX) and all other options - Adaptive Sync / Free Sync, etc. .
7. Sufficient number of ports in general and key ports (with power) location at the back of the laptop.
8. Webcam at least 2560x1440p with good autofocus and light sensitivity at 60fps minimum with H264/H265/AV1/H266 hardware compression on the fly.

That's the whole secret of a successful model in the market. The profit from such a model is provided by the MASSIVE sales of batches, i.e. the ability of effective managers to ensure high and stable quality of such models, i.e. million parties. As are smartphones market. This is where the ambush lies - "effective" managers of manufacturing companies, together with marketers, are completely unskilled and do not understand the requirements of the market, mass demand. They do not have the task of improving civilization and promoting progress, they pursue a selfish private goal - to earn the maximum, regardless of the end result. The main process drank the resources of a large company, but not the real progress of civilization and movement forward, the maximum saving of resources and the ecology of the planet, i.e. durable, quality product. That's the problem...

I see a lenovo product in nbcheck reviews..===>>> I scroll down to the comment section===>> Search for your comment==> I find another essay..
== s*** product confirmed


😂🤣😂

Oh, so you think one can throw months of engineering out the window and put 16" screen in the same lame chassis with lame number pad instead of well centered keyboard and speakers and call it Dell XPS 15 challenger. How cute.

Another bad and overpriced product from Lenovo.

What is most striking, the author of the review put as many as 92 points to the shameful screen! Pathetic contrast below 1000:1, monstrous response for "165Hz" and even no 4k resolution with high ppi and full compatibility with fhd mode to play fhd when 2.5k resolution will not have enough fps (from 60+) with miserable and strangled 3060.

The speed of the RAM is just a total shame for this model. Even in the screenshot with the characteristics of the RAM, AIDA64 DIRECTLY writes that the memory speed is expected to be around 68Gb/s (although lpddr5 6400 have bandwidth of 6400x128~102Gb/s), but even if we accept its estimate of 68Gb/s by AIDA64, the actual memory speed just monstrously low - shameful reading is only 43Gb/s!!! Write/copying only poor 50-51Gb/s, instead of the promised 66-68Gb/s, at least! At the same time, in Intel versions with Alder Lake-H, the slower DDR5 4800 quietly gives out 67Gb/s! The outdated DDR4 3200 even works faster in many models! Even my obsolete DDR4 2666 in G5 5587 gives out 40Gb/s r/w/c after my tuning with latency ~60ns vs awful 126ns in this garbage! Lenovo and AMD engineers need to make a sepuku. Do they have honor at all?

What we have - for those who take it as a universal laptop - is soldered memory, i.e. if necessary, you can't put 64Gb RAM for work/business, although memory is now cheap even in this volume. There are wi-fi antennas of disgusting quality and, moreover, some kind of shameful cheap slow Realtek, instead of Intel AX210. Intel AX210 price only 15$!

Some of the ports are clamped with a metallic bar, and some are not clamped - it creates the appearance of vibration-impact strength, and only, in reality, it is not strong.

No USB40, i.e. it is impossible to connect advanced hubs and eGPU. It shame with "top" Zen3+!

I'm at a loss for what to pay a monstrous $2600 for. Well, for $1300-1400, maybe someone will buy it at sales seasons, when Lenovo is desperately looking for buyers for this technological garbage.

Instead of making 2-3 models, but clearly decomposed into key niches - "gaming", "universal" and "portable" variants, they rivet a lot of useless crafts.

The secret to the success of a modern laptop is simple:
1. Silence in the office load and typical surfing, i.e. when the average load on the cores is not more than 25-30%.
2. Excellent contrast 4k IPS (good for work and easy switch to fast fhd mode to games/3d) screen (1400:1+), with a pixel response of no more than 10ms (minimum 100Hz VSync) on G2G/B2W. With full VRR support (24/30/48/50/60Hz mandatory).
3. Excellent full-fledged keyboard (in the case of business and universal models). Those. a full-fledged numpad with keys of normal width. Plus normal Fx keys (Esc, F1..F12) by height, as in classic desktop keyboards. Normal tactile, elastic response, quiet enough in intensive blind printing at the same time. The touchpad is already to your taste.
4. 2 memory slots (or soldered minimum 32GB from the factory without overcharging by price, exactly at the retail price of memory, i.e. the 64GB version costs +100-130$ and no more).
5. Two M.2 slots for SSD.
6. TB4.0(USB40) ports for connecting eGPUs and advanced hubs. Full version of HDMI 2.1 (48Gbps) and Display Port 2.0 (full 80Gbps / UHBR20 mode to one lane).
6. If there is a discrete card - a dedicated miniDP port or as part of usb-c, which supports G-Sync on an external monitor from a discrete card (that is, the presence of MUX) and all other options - Adaptive Sync / Free Sync, etc. .
7. Sufficient number of ports in general and key ports (with power) location at the back of the laptop.
8. Webcam at least 2560x1440p with good autofocus and light sensitivity at 60fps minimum with H264/H265/AV1/H266 hardware compression on the fly.

That's the whole secret of a successful model in the market. The profit from such a model is provided by the MASSIVE sales of batches, i.e. the ability of effective managers to ensure high and stable quality of such models, i.e. million parties. As are smartphones market. This is where the ambush lies - "effective" managers of manufacturing companies, together with marketers, are completely unskilled and do not understand the requirements of the market, mass demand. They do not have the task of improving civilization and promoting progress, they pursue a selfish private goal - to earn the maximum, regardless of the end result. The main process drank the resources of a large company, but not the real progress of civilization and movement forward, the maximum saving of resources and the ecology of the planet, i.e. durable, quality product. That's the problem...

A "premium" CPU that is not much faster than a 5800H from last generation. A capped 3060 with 2/3 of the power. Who will be this for? Maybe some CAD crowd that barely renders?

Quote from: JayFromOF84 on October 09, 2022, 08:29:54RTX 3060 is a straight up artefact.

Do you suggest that we all wait 4 ~ 9 months until Lovelace notebooks become available or do you say that we should buy 3070TI instead of 3060?

Pretty pathetic performance; there's no hiding that.
A legacy AMD 6000 processor is maaaaybe tolerable in 2022. However, RTX 3060 is a straight up artefact. It belongs in a freaking museum.
Boy you can forget about playing anything modern or awesome (like Overwatch 2).

As a content producer, I can also assure you that you won't be taken seriously by the Vegas/After Effects crowd, if you were thinking about bringing this machine to work. Maybe to type out some emails, lol
Freaking 8 cores dude. And not even 5 GHz. Yeah... Hard pass

At this price, there should be a 99Wh battery if there is any hope to compete with Dell XPS 17, Asus ZenBook Pro, and HP Envy 16. Cutting costs on the battery capacity is an enormous letdown on premium laptops.

According to PSREF the 16p G3 supports USB-C Power Delivery 3.0

But if it's the same as 16p G2, it'll require at least 65W and will only charge when sleeping or in Battery Saver mode in Lenovo Vantage.