Quote from: Chanse on March 06, 2023, 12:26:20Hi, just wondering if you could please post the colour-calibration profile for the non-OLED version of the Z13? Thanks so much! Great review - it convinced me to pick up a Z13 gen 1 while they're quite generously on sale and I'm very happy with it so far. No problems with the screen but a little bit of extra accuracy would be nice. Thanks

also have the lowpower 400 nits screen and it has a kinda blue-tint :( .... would be great to get the profile.

Hi, just wondering if you could please post the colour-calibration profile for the non-OLED version of the Z13? Thanks so much! Great review - it convinced me to pick up a Z13 gen 1 while they're quite generously on sale and I'm very happy with it so far. No problems with the screen but a little bit of extra accuracy would be nice. Thanks

Thanks for the review.
How are the feelings of the haptics on the touchpad?(Is it too soft? Too strong?)

Benjamin, thanks...I look forward to seeing the Z16 review.

Cheers,
Jet

We already have the Z16 in house. But I can't give you any ETA on it yet.

Always enjoy the technical thoroughness of your reviews. My thoughts good and bad:

Good:
1) Love the fact that they have charging port (USB-4) on both sides.
2) LOVE LOVE LOVE the fact that they have a matte screen option.
3) Love that this is a high end laptop with AMD 6800 CPUS.

Bad: 
1) The port situation is kind of a show stopper for me. One additional USB-A port would have made all the difference. As it is now there is really only one port available when you are charging your laptop. WTH?
And if the X1 Carbon can squeeze in 2 USB-A ports, 2 USB-C ports and a HDMI port then surely the Z team could have found room for 1 USB-port...even it had a drop down jaw. Argh!
2) Why such low speed SSD speed...This is a premium laptop with mediocre SSD performance...Really?
3) It would been nice if the screen was a bit brighter (say 450nits vs the avg 378 nits).
4) It's just not a great value when you compare to something like Apple's MBA M2...which is considerably less $'s, equal-ish performance and with longer battery life. Unfortunately this laptop is a no-go for me until they bring down the price to about $1200.

If Lenvo offered the X1 carbon with the high end AMD chipsets I wouldn't even give this laptop a second look. I'm jussayin....

Any plans to review the Thinkpad Z16? If so do you have a ETA on that review.

Thanks,
Jet

was charging tested on the right-hand USBC port? It doesn't show a charging icon.

Not a leftie, just someone who often has their power supply on the right-hand side...

IMHO you've missed a serious problem with the keyboard layout. If I understand it correctly, in order to get F1-F12 keys as default, Fn-lock needs to be on (the other way than it would normally be). What does it mean for the end and cursor keys? Because insert is a function on end and page up/ down on cursor up/ down. If the Fn-lock applies to all keys, then it is a serious problem for me. If it only applies to F-keys, then it's workable. Why do they have to reinvent the wheel all the time?

Many thanks for the review. It would be great if you could review the T14S Gen 3 with AMD. That could be the all-round Thinkpad laptop with bigger screen size and more variety of ports?

By the way, the current situation with the effectiveness throughput of DDR5 memory is "deja vu" from 2010...

Then Intel was released by the first mobile series on new cores - "Arandale family" (Westmere cores) in 2010. So in this architecture Intel declared a two -channel throughput at the peak around 17.1 GB/s. But in practice, "arandale" chips even with the best memory installed were not demonstrated by more than 58-60% of peak throughput declared in Intel's specifications. Those, Intel because just lied. And now approximately the same in 2022, only the situation is slightly better - 67-70% of the peak theoretical throughput.

Well, in order not to disgrace again, Intel decided not to publish a peak memory throughput for its memory controllers built in  processors. There are no numbers in the new specifications for memory peak throughput - there are no class action lawsuits for Intel...

Quote from: jrharbort on August 13, 2022, 03:03:14

Quote from: wolfwood on August 12, 2022, 16:23:01I'm a little confused, because Lenovo lists all the new AMD 6x50U laptops as using dual channel memory, but you report that the Z13 is quad channel. where did you find this information?  and do you think it's true of the T14s/X13 gen 3 etc. as well?

Each DDR5 module is considered to be running in dual channel mode (for some reason), so two modules results in "Quad Channel" mode.

But the width of one channel LPDDR5 (as and LPDDR4) - only 32 bits. And the amount for the "Quad" mode is all the same old 128 bits as typical for a conventional (not soldered, in slots) two-channel mode with 64 bits per channel. 32 x 4 = 64 x 2 for a conventional DDR5. You do not get large throughput with LPDDRX. But "6400" is 6400 x 128 (full bus width) / 8 (divide by the byte width) = 104.2 Gb/s.
In practice, we have only 48-49% of the full bandwidth for LPDDR5 6400. This is a shame for Lenovo, and in general for LPDDR5 6400 in any laptop, because even in the best solutions, it gives a maximum of 67-70GB/s (65-67% from full throughput, in theory) in practice.

Why is it so important? This is extremely important for the future support of 8K monitors connected by Display Port 2.0 (HDMI 2.1 is not capable of transmitting lossless 8K signal even for 24 bit mode, too narrow maximum bitrate). This is especially critical for the video chips built into the processors, which use shared memory of the system memory and dividing its throughput with OS and software and other devices on the system bus. As the practice of using 4K monitors with igpu, so that there are no lags and frizes on the external monitor, if it is not directly connected to a discrete video chip, the throughput diverted to it from system memory bus should not exceed 8-12% of the total throughput system memory bus. Otherwise, problems begin. Purely empirically.

Those. 8K Signal requires a 4 times larger throughput, obviously, neither DDR4 3200 nor even DDR5 6400 are capable of serving 8k monitor, more precisely, DDR5 4800+ is theoretically capable of, but the real performance is completely disgusting (and even such shameful subsidence as in Z13 is completed by the picture) today from the point of view of the memory bus efficiency.

In general, so far if _any_ laptop, even with i3 (and even with celeron) will not be able to operate in memory at a speed of at least 85-90GB/s for serve 8k panels, as a mass phenomenon (8k screens) on the market can be forgotten.

The funny thing is that the 8K panels were ready in 2014, but there was no interface for it by one сable. For 3 years, as there is Display Port (on paper) and only in 2022 finally AMD promises official support for DP2.0 in Ryzen 7xxx. But again, there is no sense in it, because a standard computer on  7xxx is unlikely to reach the indicated minimum for memory throughput (probably). Therefore, apparently it will be required for another 3-4 years, until everyone gets dram throughput for minimal 85-90Gb/s, and most of the computer and laptops will not have a memory subsystem with a this memory speed of at least 100GB/s+. And then we will go to the world 8k panels (in 2D and in light 3D of course).

Well, if nothing terrible will happen to the world and the world division of labor and the civilization will be alive and will develop further, then in 15 years we will receive 8k games with acceptable FPS (60+ in the ultra quality).

And 8k picture on the screen around 32" is practically not distinguishable from the reality in detail for eyes, i.e., almost analog by visually (as has already become the norm on smartphones with ppi above 400).
It remains only to get 3d chips capable of rendering the picture as close to the real world and virtual reality will become a reality (sorry for the pun)...


But what amazing - discrete video chips for many years (10 minimum) were able to serve 8K monitors (in 2D of course, about 3D and now there is no talk, they can't cope with 4K), because Their GDDRX memory has long exceeded the speed of 100GB/s. But there was no DP2.0 interface. And when he appeared in 2019, Covid came and everything apparently scored on a new standard. So, for the first time in the history of the IT industry, the implementation of the standard was delayed for 3 extra years ...

Quote from: wolfwood on August 12, 2022, 16:23:01I'm a little confused, because Lenovo lists all the new AMD 6x50U laptops as using dual channel memory, but you report that the Z13 is quad channel. where did you find this information?  and do you think it's true of the T14s/X13 gen 3 etc. as well?

Each DDR5 module is considered to be running in dual channel mode (for some reason), so two modules results in "Quad Channel" mode.

Quote from: castellar on August 12, 2022, 13:42:56You say "M.2 SSD is a single-sided 2242 SSD; a model with storage chips on both sides will not fit." Lenovo tech support in the US told me that a double sided SSD would indeed fit. Could you confirm your statement?

The SSD in this machine is single sided, and there is definitely no wiggle-room for a double sided drive.

I'm a little confused, because Lenovo lists all the new AMD 6x50U laptops as using dual channel memory, but you report that the Z13 is quad channel. where did you find this information?  and do you think it's true of the T14s/X13 gen 3 etc. as well?

You say "M.2 SSD is a single-sided 2242 SSD; a model with storage chips on both sides will not fit." Lenovo tech support in the US told me that a double sided SSD would indeed fit. Could you confirm your statement?