And again Lenovo is "improving" and "reinventing" Thinkpad by killing Thinkpad key features.
This time again they attempt to remove buttons.They did already this attempt and it was a failure. Why again?
No buttons - no purchase.
Dell is already out of purchase list because of no trackpoint.
HP - same.
Lenovo up next?

Quote from: Hunter2020 on July 27, 2022, 17:03:39If I were to buy a laptop today, here's what I would do:  Look for a cheap laptop with decent specs and terrible screen that doesn't do PWM.  Go source a good display from Aliexpress and do a Frankenstein swap the terrible for the good one.

So you really are a crack addict, Mr. Biden?

I would miss the Thinkpad Trackpoint buttons. I think the Thinkpad X13S is my next (and seventh) Thinkpad.

Quote from: Dorby on July 27, 2022, 16:03:49I still think "Yoga 7 14 Gen 7" is better (if not the best ultrabook) because of its larger 71Wh battery and more reasonable price point for the exact same hardware. Most people buying a laptop this expensive are going to want a high-resolution screen beyond 1080p. And that 2.8K OLED display + 50Wh battery will yield very little battery life, even with the efficiency magic that is Ryzen 6000U.

Also, let's not forget the whole debacle surrounding AMD's "security chip" on the new Thinkpad Z-series. That alone is a reason enough to not buy them.

Yes, even my Lenovo Yoga Slim 7-14ARE (4800u processor) seems to be on par. Something is wrong in the benchmarks?

Quote from: Hunter2020 on July 27, 2022, 17:08:31BTW, Pluton reminds me why I should wait it out until Chinese chips with good performance make it out to the West and why I have been hoarding a lot of 3rd gen Core CPU and PC parts because I want to be able to run Windows 7/XP/10/11 all on the same machine! Screw this Big Brother shiet. It's OK for Big Bro to invade the OS, I can turn off features or simply disable internet connection.  When Big Bro gets to the CPU level screw them I rather use a Chinese chip with less performance!

And instead of American bookmarks and "big brother" in the form of TNK and special services, you will get Chinese bookmarks and "big brother" in the form of even more totalitarian CCP officials. What's better? A rhetorical question for today in the world of total fascism...

 What's better? A rhetorical question for today in the world of total fascism (what has become clear since spring 2020) and violence against individuality, human rights and a person independent of states - stationary bandits, in fact, almost never corresponding to their declared social goals and social security of a society paying fees for this - taxes in favor of no longer themselves for the most parts, but kleptocracy, who easily became fascists around the world.

Forget about security and rights. In the "brave new world" you will not have any rights, including the right to choose what will be shown to you in the browser and what software can you install on conditionally "your" laptop/PC.

The main task of TPM, as on smartphones, is the maximum elimination of the owner to the possibility of controlling the environment on it (the absence of a normal firewall, at least the lack of the right to be the administrator of the machine - it is not yours, but the company that produces hardware and software for it) - to make you receive only here information and watch non-switchable. advertising for the sake of monetization, despite the fact that you paid for the smartphone. Everyman for corporations is just a wallet - a means of monetization and nothing more. Nobody really cares about his rights. This is obvious to any adequate adult, although there are apparently fewer and fewer of them on the planet...

Quote from: Anonym on July 28, 2022, 01:41:19Having the whole RAM fully encrypted, thus nullifying a physical attack against a running/suspended machines, is anything but false sense of security for many threat models.

Side channel attacks will bypass this as well. Moreover, chip manufacturers deliberately leave bookmarks for the special services and themselves. To believe otherwise is to be naive in this world.

Quote from: Anonym on July 28, 2022, 01:41:19But even there, consumer machines now tend to have virtual TPMs instead of actually FIPS certified chips.

Because the main goal of forced linking of OS and software to TPM is not the security of the device owner, but its total control by TNCs and officials of kleptocracy states.

If the goal was the safety of the individual, everything would be completely different, with maximum transparency in both chips and software, as well as strict legal repression of the presumptuous. But we all understand that everything works differently...

And here it is important to understand the key thing - it does not matter to them that they cannot control 100% of individuals, it is important for them that they can control the behavior and actions (anticipating them) of the "democratic majority". It is enough to control 95%+ of the population, and the resistance of the remaining marginal renegades trying to somehow fight the system no longer means anything in the modern digital world of total control of the individual. In totalitarian states this is done explicitly and harshly, in more "democratic" states this is done more subtly, but the essence of this does not change. Everyone sits on a "leash" of different lengths...

Quote from: Dorby on July 27, 2022, 19:37:53*false sense of security.
There was a time when enterprise chips were actually more secure than consumer ones. Those days are long past.

You forgot the /s.

Having the whole RAM fully encrypted, thus nullifying a physical attack against a running/suspended machines, is anything but false sense of security for many threat models. Furthermore, some of us have compliance issues that clearly require some of these features (e.g., remote configuration patching and auditing is severely underrated when dealing with a fleet of machines and remote erasure is also very much required).

The only thing that changed was TPM made its way to consumer land. But even there, consumer machines now tend to have virtual TPMs instead of actually FIPS certified chips.

i want to see 6860z option review -.-

Quote from: Anonym on July 27, 2022, 17:05:16Only if having the consumer version of the CPU (i.e., "not the PRO"), thus no enterprise management features built-in, and no additional security (such as full RAM encryption) counts as "the exact same hardware". Of course the consumer version (i.e., Yoga) is better value for the money and focuses on what regular consumeres want -- that's why the distinction even exists in the first place! All of that is moot if your work demands any of those features to remain compliant with certification XYZ, hence why Thinkpads (and premium Thinkpads) can charge those price-tags.

*false sense of security.
There was a time when enterprise chips were actually more secure than consumer ones. Those days are long past.

QuoteBTW, Pluton reminds me why I should wait it out until Chinese chips with good performance make it out to the West and why I have been hoarding a lot of 3rd gen Core CPU and PC parts because I want to be able to run Windows 7/XP/10/11 all on the same machine! Screw this Big Brother shiet. It's OK for Big Bro to invade the OS, I can turn off features or simply disable internet connection.  When Big Bro gets to the CPU level screw them I rather use a Chinese chip with less performance!

The irony of going with Chinese hardware to avoid Big Brother is not lost on you?

in all seriousness, if that is what suits you, I suppose you can do that but obviously not for a laptop. And it will be some years before those Chinese chips make it here, and they probably won't be x86.

Also, you sound like you might be happier with Linux. Of course you lose the Windows software ecosystem but you have more control over what's running in the box.

Quote from: Hunter2020 on July 27, 2022, 17:03:39All these laptops are expensive and suck.  If I were to buy a laptop today, here's what I would do:  Look for a cheap laptop with decent specs and terrible screen that doesn't do PWM.  Go source a good display from Aliexpress and do a Frankenstein swap the terrible for the good one.  So long as laptop screen has the same number of pins and same size/resolution and same connector location at the back, it should work with a better screen from another (more expensive) laptop.

You have time on your hands and more tools and skills than most buyers.

I've done a laptop screen swap exactly once in my life, and only because I was too broke to buy a new laptop, and swapping a compatible OEM replacement (a step up in resolution) rather than something from a third party. I felt like I was doing open heart surgery. I don't need the extra gray hair.

If you're doing this on a cheap laptop to begin with rather than a thinkpad, are you really saving much money?

BTW, Pluton reminds me why I should wait it out until Chinese chips with good performance make it out to the West and why I have been hoarding a lot of 3rd gen Core CPU and PC parts because I want to be able to run Windows 7/XP/10/11 all on the same machine! Screw this Big Brother shiet. It's OK for Big Bro to invade the OS, I can turn off features or simply disable internet connection.  When Big Bro gets to the CPU level screw them I rather use a Chinese chip with less performance!

Quote from: Dorby on July 27, 2022, 16:03:49I still think "Yoga 7 14 Gen 7" is better because of its larger 71Wh battery and more reasonable price point for the exact same hardware.

Only if having the consumer version of the CPU (i.e., "not the PRO"), thus no enterprise management features built-in, and no additional security (such as full RAM encryption) counts as "the exact same hardware". Of course the consumer version (i.e., Yoga) is better value for the money and focuses on what regular consumeres want -- that's why the distinction even exists in the first place! All of that is moot if your work demands any of those features to remain compliant with certification XYZ, hence why Thinkpads (and premium Thinkpads) can charge those price-tags.

All these laptops are expensive and suck.  If I were to buy a laptop today, here's what I would do:  Look for a cheap laptop with decent specs and terrible screen that doesn't do PWM.  Go source a good display from Aliexpress and do a Frankenstein swap the terrible for the good one.  So long as laptop screen has the same number of pins and same size/resolution and same connector location at the back, it should work with a better screen from another (more expensive) laptop.

I think Lenovo's "Yoga 7 14 Gen 7" is better deal because of its larger 71Wh battery and more reasonable price point for the exact same hardware.

Also let's not forget the whole debacle surrounding AMD's "security chip" on the new Thinkpad Z-series. That alone is a reason enough to not buy one.

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/01/pluton-microsofts-new-security-chip-will-finally-be-put-to-the-test/