Quote from: Ish on June 01, 2022, 23:04:40Lol, get fucked, Elon. What a clown...

He doesn't want to keep paying for circus freaks who do no work, remotely.

Quote from: JZSmith1 on June 03, 2022, 04:04:56and the women pretty damned ugly

There are plenty of hot women in Texas, and everywhere. Too many fatties in the USA though.

Quote from: _MT_ on June 04, 2022, 11:46:37Essentially, what you're saying is that large companies tend to be broken.

A term for companies has long appeared, which without some "subsidies" from the state or someone can not exist in principle-"zombies"-companies. In the US economy, there are almost half of these, according to various estimates. But in reality, watching TNCs, tens of thousands are dismissed (including allegedly qualified personnel - engineers, developers), for "optimization" for many years, has an impression for many years - and whether all these people were needed by companies?

Of course, shares can be distributed, but only if it brings real fruits to employees, look at Intel shares - will their options interest? After all, the company is also dominated by the market, having more than 70% of the processor market (despite all the efforts of fabless AMD). And  shares are already 22 years under the plinth. And AMD has grown over the past 7 years 45+ times! But did this help AMD ultimately increase the market share the same? Or profit? No. All also on one laptop with the "current" generation of the AMD processor (which I already wrote about) vs. for 10 with Intel. This is a complete Epic Fail for AMD. And the shares are clearly overvalued ...

The employee is difficult to interest shares because dividends rarely reflect a fair distribution of profit. It go other ways to the beneficiaries ...

Quote from: _MT_ on June 04, 2022, 11:46:37I find that discussions about "taxing the rich" tend to expose how little people know about wealth. At least around here. Proposed solutions typically hit the middle class, not the "rich." It would be funny if it wasn't sad.

I did not even concern the topic of taxes, but it is enough for me to quote Joe Biden, who declared that the rich in the USA (and companies) pay at a real efficient rate of an order of magnitude less (less than 5%) than ordinary workers (15%+ at least) . This is unfair.
There are a bunch of analysts in the press proving these facts clearly.

Actually, even a built tax collection system (hiding part through social and insurance payments allegedly on behalf of the employer - in different countries the distribution of weights in this scheme differs) clearly that the state (officials) are vitally interested in all countries so that the ordinary taxpayer is not before He understood the end how much he pays in reality and did not care how he was in reality the bureaucratic army - kleptocracy and what he receives (the level and quality of the social services of the state) for these taxes in return.

Many people (from different countries - both developed and developing) in a private conversation amaze me with the fact that they do not understand simple truth - the exploiter never pays anything for them. He pays all the taxes from profit.
And the profitable workers take of profit for company, not the exploiter.

Quote from: NikoB on June 03, 2022, 22:13:57And who prevents the employee from independently buying a "stake pack" on the amount earned by labor?

But they don't have to. They can buy a share in another company. By giving them shares (or options), you're are tying them to your company. You can give them shares that can't be freely traded, etc. You're tying their fortune to the fortune of your company. Again, you can't expect them to bleed unless there is something in it for them. Even if it's as simple as a handsome overtime pay. There really is nothing strange about entrepreneurs making sacrifices. And they do so for a reason (pay-out in the future). But it's silly to expect the same from ordinary employees.

Essentially, what you're saying is that large companies tend to be broken. And I agree. It's not that good workers are easy to find, it's that good management is so hard to find that relative to that workers are easy. Management sucks. And yes, I'm convinced that it is more profitable to have motivated workers and properly functioning management. It's just bloody difficult and the bigger the organisation is, the more difficult it is to maintain that state.

As for capitalization and net worth, I find that discussions about "taxing the rich" tend to expose how little people know about wealth. At least around here. Proposed solutions typically hit the middle class, not the "rich." It would be funny if it wasn't sad.

Quote from: JZSmith1 on June 03, 2022, 04:04:56Elon Musk lost 50% of his net worth. In 6.5 months.

The fact is that the capitalization of the company is bluff. And often confuses with the real state. It took Bill Gates for 2 decades to buy his own share packet in Microsoft. Now he is a landlord. although ownership to the land is also easily drop in court, and the court is the drawbar.. You can't sell a lot of stock, otherwise the shares will fall. We have to sell for a long time, a package behind the package, choosing successful moments. Musk greatly ruined his process with an attempt to buy a worthless Twitter.

Quote from: _MT_ on June 02, 2022, 12:28:34Unless you're giving them shares, you can't expect them to bleed for a company.

And who prevents the employee from independently buying a "stake pack" on the amount earned by labor? Maybe the employee does not have such plans, except in the case of an outright freebie (i.e., free of charge from the owner of the company as a desire to interest an ordinary employee?). Or maybe because the distribution of profit in the company in the wage fund is initially unfair in favor of the beneficiaries of the company, those very exploiters, so that without a fall in the standard of living, the average employee simply does not have money to purchase a package of shares at the current market price?

It may be because it is customary to contain the ordinary labor people in capitalism so that they are constrained by invisible chains and this contributes to their hardening banks through unnecessary and harmful retail lending?

Quote from: _MT_ on June 02, 2022, 12:28:34pay people for output

The cruel truth of life is that most employees are gradually becoming parasites in the company. Like a whale in the sea.

But relative to Tesla - there is true. Assessment of the number of goods produced per unit of labor. In this regard, Tesla completely loses to the Grand Industry - Toyota, the Volkswagen group...

Therefore, the mask in reality, if the company does not increase the number of cars per unit of labor close to the same Toyota, you need to get rid of ineffective personnel and automate everything that is possible.

It is no secret for those who worked in large companies that in each department there are a bunch of people involved in the devil, but definitely not effective work. There are many persons to exist, obvious and implicit preferences from the intentioned authorities and there are those who are valued precisely for professionalism. The funny thing is that until the last moment, until the meeting of shareholders or the adequate owner will begin to clean the Avdiev stables, managers will help maintain thieves(rogue) including nepotism for "warm" places and will get rid of their independent people (and dangerous for their careers) workers with high qualifications, if there is still by whom to cover your own a** upon the onset of the emergency.

Quote from: _MT_ on June 02, 2022, 12:28:34They know that if they work more, they get more.

This principle does not work at all in large companies. Only in case of work on himself or by becoming an exploiter himself. If you are not a unique specialist from whom they literally "blow out fluffs" and who has an individual labor contract with an extreme profitable "golden parachute". Most ordinary workers, even developers of the software, cannot boast of such conditions outside the startups and even the average managerial linear staff...

Quote from: _MT_ on June 02, 2022, 12:28:34Good workers are relatively easy to find, good managers are more difficult to source.

It was not easy to find good (read - beneficial for the explutator) employees. And usually (oh miracle!) These are people with low self-esteem, but with a high qualification, on which someone worked before this work. And for this reason, the exploiters do not like people close to 40 and higher even if they are highly qualified - they already know exactly how to deal with attempts to underestimate their self -esteem and know for sure the price. Thanks to the already gained life experience and wisdom, they become simply unprofitable for the explter, because it requires much higher than naive boys and girls with "burning eyes" and who believe in corporate slogans and an attempt to psychological processing. =)

Fun fact: As of this week, Elon Musk lost 50% of his net worth. In 6.5 months. So here's this crazy foreign dude, stuck in Texas where the weed is illegal and the women pretty damned ugly, losing half of his net worth. Dodging bullets.

I mean, s*** man, you'd be cranky too. Especially since the TSLA board is about to axe your a** and that TWTR play you tried to make blows up in your face. It's been what you'd call a very bad 6 months for the weird little man... and the pain ain't over.

Especially since the world hates you, wherever you go. Whew.

When you stand to make billions, you might be willing to live in a factory for a while. That's not the case for an average employee. Unless you're giving them shares, you can't expect them to bleed for a company.

For me, the solution is simple - pay people for output. Then you can give them the freedom to organize their work as they see fit. I find that many managers are useless at evaluating people's work which is why they want them at the office under their "supervision" - so they can feel useful. They actually provide very little value, they just motivate people to look busy, and when people work from home, they feel it. In order to do their job, they would actually have to do their job properly - inspect their work. Being a good manager is surprisingly difficult and relatively few people can do it. But be careful what you wish for. This type of arrangement can shift risk to an employee. There are scenarios where output is not guaranteed and you can end up doing a lot of work for nothing.

Personally, I like this arrangement in general. Because it automatically rewards people for productivity. They know that if they work more, they get more. They don't waste time. They come up with new ways of doing things on their own and get rewarded for it if it works. And the work is more satisfying, more rewarding. In my experience, you get the opposite - people do more, not less. But you need functioning management. That is, in my experience, the challenge. Good workers are relatively easy to find, good managers are more difficult to source.

Well, that's an easy way to get rid of his remaining snowflakes, drama divas and his leftovers from Californication.

When the company and leadership first line run out of ways of making a product without resorting to the employees living in the factory 'like the CEO did sometimes" means there is not a viable or profitable company without slave labour....time to bail? Good luck Tesla employees, you not sinking on a stern up ship is in our thoughts

What a shameless, greedy and selfish person.

Elon Musk mind has flipped, ready for his med treatment  !!!

Looking forward to the talented people who are truly responsible for Tesla's innovations, which is definitely not Musk, leaving that stale company for greener pastures where they don't have to work for the 21st century's equivalent of 1980's Donald Trump... just another narcissistic conman duping stupid people... Lmao...

Lol, get fucked, Elon. What a clown...