Quote from: Milaw on March 21, 2022, 01:12:31
It's funny how people saying ofcourse it will beat alder lake and how intel will drop another before the ruzen 7000, which one that is false, and then yall intel fan boys been nonstop yapping how intel finally put out a cpu that performed slightly better than amds 2 year old cpus... so this is a bigger deal since alder lake is still new. Bye boy

Unlike Alderlake and Cezanne which were released months apart. Raptorlake and Zen 4 are probably gonna be released in the same time window.
So this comparison is much more relevant compared to intel comparing it to an older architecture.

But yes, intel fanboys are indeed to blame for the stagnancy that happened to cpus when we were stuck in the eternal quad core era.

It's funny how people saying ofcourse it will beat alder lake and how intel will drop another before the ruzen 7000, which one that is false, and then yall intel fan boys been nonstop yapping how intel finally put out a cpu that performed slightly better than amds 2 year old cpus... so this is a bigger deal since alder lake is still new. Bye boy

It's Zen 5 which was rumored to have a hybrid architecture.
And Zen 4 should be against raptorlake.
Increasing the number of cores to 24 doesn't really make much sense when even 16 cores/32 threads are not being properly utilized, one of the reasons why we have only threadripper pro now and not the regular one.
Zen 4 should hold out on it's own against raptorlake. And it should also bring rdna 2 to all processors and not just the G series. And we should have the 7xxxxG (or pro only) APU @65 watts with upto 8 Zen 4 cores and  maybe 12 RDNA 2 cores

Quote from: atrufus on March 20, 2022, 17:07:35
U know intel 13th gen will be out before Zen4 dont u? it will deliver another 15% IPC improvement over alder lake, 24 cores, 8+16, way bigger L2 cache, which is way faster and with lower latency than amd 3V-Cache, and also, Meteor lake will be out 1year before Zen5, so it will be the true competitor, with intel 4, +20-35% IPC improvement over Raptor Lake, bigger cache, new e-core architecture and brand new P-core architecture, not just a refined version of raptor cove as it will be of golden cove so jist wait, obviously Zen4 will destroy ADL, but it wont be that easy with Raptor Lake, + raptor lake will remain support for ddr4, which make it easier for most people to access next gen performance without selling a kidney

All you say is wrong or unconfirmed. According to rumors Zen 4 will be launched before Raptor Lake. If Intel themselves said "up to double digit" core improvement it can't be +15% IPC. It's probably more like +5% IPC + 5% clocks. Bigger L2 cache is likely one factor of the IPC improvements. So, it's unnecessary to mention it twice. It's also said that it has some worse latency. Which means it might have disadvantages compared to its predecessor in some apps. Just like Alder Lake. It's nonsense to compare Intel's L2 to AMD's V-Cache. It's not even close. Current AMD L1 to L3 caches have a speed and latency advantage over Intel. I expect that to continue with Zen 4. Despite the increased L2 size of Zen 4. Desktop Zen 5 and Meteor Lake are scheduled for late 2023. Both will compete against each other. Intel also wants to abandon DDR4 support for the Raptor Lake platform. So it won't have a price advantage here. But I expect DDR5 prices to go down significantly in the second half of the year.

Quote from: atrufus on March 20, 2022, 17:07:35
U know intel 13th gen will be out before Zen4 dont u? it will deliver another 15% IPC improvement over alder lake, 24 cores, 8+16, way bigger L2 cache, which is way faster and with lower latency than amd 3V-Cache, and also, Meteor lake will be out 1year before Zen5, so it will be the true competitor, with intel 4, +20-35% IPC improvement over Raptor Lake, bigger cache, new e-core architecture and brand new P-core architecture, not just a refined version of raptor cove as it will be of golden cove so jist wait, obviously Zen4 will destroy ADL, but it wont be that easy with Raptor Lake, + raptor lake will remain support for ddr4, which make it easier for most people to access next gen performance without selling a kidney

12900k was about 5% more powerful than the 5950 in multicore performance and less power efficient.

If we take the15% and 20-35% as true values, Zen 4 will be a real winner here. DDR5 ram does not cost a kidney and ugrading to it grant a better scaling better with Ryzen, better value. Other than that, you forget that Zen 4 will have better power efficiency than Raptor for obvious reasons.

Meteor can flip the table for over AMD though.

U know intel 13th gen will be out before Zen4 dont u? it will deliver another 15% IPC improvement over alder lake, 24 cores, 8+16, way bigger L2 cache, which is way faster and with lower latency than amd 3V-Cache, and also, Meteor lake will be out 1year before Zen5, so it will be the true competitor, with intel 4, +20-35% IPC improvement over Raptor Lake, bigger cache, new e-core architecture and brand new P-core architecture, not just a refined version of raptor cove as it will be of golden cove so jist wait, obviously Zen4 will destroy ADL, but it wont be that easy with Raptor Lake, + raptor lake will remain support for ddr4, which make it easier for most people to access next gen performance without selling a kidney

Why complicate matters - its simple if u look to fundamentals.

Intel have been irrepairably slow to admit they have anuncompetitive basic architecture & restarting their designs from scratch.

I refer to Infinity Fabric.

w/o it, the gap will only grow.

Intel can only chip away at the inherent ceiling of monolithic (eg. alder lake's kludgy 8 core + some half assed cores) & Amd, at the simpler limitations of chiplets, as they steam ~seamlesssly ever upwards into the moores law defeating multicore count future.

w/o an ~IF, chiplets is just a buzzword.

They have left it far too late to man up to this & regaining the data center is in effect impossible, & it is this which funds / provides IP for the war chest for the other theatres of the war

Of course it will beat Alder Lake, Alder Lake isn't that far ahead. Even price adjusted Zen3 can compete, hence why we are getting the rest of the lineup like 5600 and 5700X good year latter, since AMD can't price gouge anymore. As for Raptor Lame, we will see. Upgrade with RL won't be that innocent either and I think it could compete just fine. Unless you are looking only at top end for that few percent niche, call i7 midrange and ignore like 90% of the market that buys i5/R5 or lower. No offense, but ignoring that is acting bit like those snobs who only think people with top end matter.

AMD themselves even said it's 100% higher density. Because they don't use N5 but an improved version of it. I expect Zen 4 not only to smash 12th gen, it should also beat 13th gen. 13th gen seems to offer only small architecture improvements and is still on Intel's 10nm. Intel said something about "up to double digit" improvement. So, 10% on average is probably best case. Because of the doubled number of E-cores it could increase multicore performance more significantly. But it's still power limited then. Way more than Zen 4 on 5nm. Even with just 16 cores I expect Zen 4 to increase performance by >30% over Zen 3 just by architecture and process node. Finally it could be even more because of the increased TDP from 105W to 120W (or even up to 170W for extreme SKUs). But I also wouldn't rule out 24 core Zen 4 on AM5. I just don't expect it at launch. Sure, it would completely destroy Raptor Lake's top SKUs. But it also would make TR 5000 somewhat less attractive.

LOL next article from this author will probably be : Why NVIDIA 4000 series will smash current gen Radeon 6000 series GPUs.

First of all, already too many cores have the CPUs. Rather faster Cores and there Intel is better. When the Ryzen 7000 arrives, before we already have 13.gen Intel.

I don't know if the author has any knowledge about which competes with what. But zen4 is against Raptor lake not ADL.

There is no point in comparing zen4 vs ADL. Why can't he write 10 reason why raptor lake will eat zen3 or zen3D?

Have some ethics and courtesy of what you are writing.

 I believe the zen4 chips will be going up against Raptor Cove.  Intel already demoing that chip a couple of times.  Likely zen4 will go against it, with its 24 cores. 

Battle of the leaks. Intel leaks info on the Alder Lake Plus and then AMD leaks more on the 7000.

Who can out leak who?

The promo claiming that the 400€ 12700K is a middle range part for a "modest" gaming build made me shiver, what is everyone else buying a 240€ 5600X or a 200€ 12400 even getting? Toasters with some USB and DP outputs? :o