Quote from: Tridents on October 20, 2021, 14:49:07

Quote from: Sanjiv Sathiah on October 20, 2021, 14:18:43
@Tridents I updated my original comment below with this info, but the M1 Macs use USB4 which has Thunderbolt 3 built into the standard. Intel open-sourced it - this would allow Apple to make a custom controller for those devices. However, the new MacBook Pro models use Thunderbolt 4, which remains very much a proprietary Intel technology for which it makes and sells the controllers.

I believe that Intel licenses the Thunderbolt 4 technology to others, at least that is what other sites said when it was launched.
The fact is, according with what others have said, the M1 already supported some of the new features of Thunderbolt 4, so it would be stupid for Apple to abandon something that was embedded in the M1 chip.

Actually one of the images in this week presentation shows the inclusion of the Thunderbolt controller in the new M1 Pro/Max. So it is basically confirmed

At most they will have Intel-made Thunderbolt repeaters (like the entry level M1 machines use). The controller is custom Apple and they were mentioning this for the last one and half years (touting the security and performance of their controller compared to Intel chips).

Quote from: Sanjiv Sathiah on October 20, 2021, 14:18:43
@Tridents I updated my original comment below with this info, but the M1 Macs use USB4 which has Thunderbolt 3 built into the standard. Intel open-sourced it - this would allow Apple to make a custom controller for those devices. However, the new MacBook Pro models use Thunderbolt 4, which remains very much a proprietary Intel technology for which it makes and sells the controllers.

I believe that Intel licenses the Thunderbolt 4 technology to others, at least that is what other sites said when it was launched.
The fact is, according with what others have said, the M1 already supported some of the new features of Thunderbolt 4, so it would be stupid for Apple to abandon something that was embedded in the M1 chip.

@Tridents I updated my original comment below with this info, but the M1 Macs use USB4 which has Thunderbolt 3 built into the standard. Intel open-sourced it - this would allow Apple to make a custom controller for those devices. However, the new MacBook Pro models use Thunderbolt 4, which remains very much a proprietary Intel technology for which it makes and sells the controllers.

Controller is almost certainly Apple designed. PHY, maybe Intel, maybe Apple, maybe someone else. Who knows? PMIC, probably TI, but may be someone else.

Quote from: Sanjiv Sathiah on October 20, 2021, 13:46:54
@ Tridents I rewatched the Apple presentation and there is no mention at all of the controllers being in-house Apple designed. Nor is there any evidence that other companies make Intel Thunderbolt controllers - this is a key business for Intel. Why would it let other companies sell components they want they want to sell themselves?

@PoICPP Apple may have helped Intel develop the technology, but Thunderbolt is an Intel owned and branded technology. Apple actually transferred the rights of the Thunderbolt name to Intel. I'm looking forward to the inevitable teardowns, but I have no reason to suspect we will see anything other than Intel-branded Thunderbolt controllers (silcon/semiconductors) in them.

I'm glad we can all agree, however, that the new MacBooks still have Intel technology inside them.

You can look at the M1 presentation and read apple's press release from last year:
"An Apple-designed Thunderbolt controller with support for USB 4, transfer speeds up to 40Gbps, and compatibility with more peripherals than ever."
Which leads to believe that this is just an evolution of that controller, considering how it already supported most of the thunderbolt 4 specifications.

@ Tridents I rewatched the Apple presentation and there is no mention at all of the controllers being in-house Apple designed like they did for the M1 MacBooks/Mac mini. A key difference here is that the M1 MacBooks/Mac mini use USB4 which has Thunderbolt 3 built into the now open standard -- these new MacBooks use Thunderbolt 4 which is still very much proprietary Intel -- and you can bet it won't be giving Apple the green light to make their own controllers for these new MacBook Pro models having just lost their processor business to them.

@PoICPP Apple may have helped Intel develop the technology, but Thunderbolt is an Intel owned and branded technology. Apple actually transferred the rights of the Thunderbolt name to Intel. I'm looking forward to the inevitable teardowns, but I have no reason to suspect we will see anything other than Intel-branded Thunderbolt controllers (silcon/semiconductors) in them.

They don't have Intel silicon, If anything they would need to pay intel for the Thunderbolt certification, but even that may not be neccesary since Apple and Intel codeveloped thunderbolt in the first place

There is no reason to believe that there is actually Intel silicon on the new MacBooks to support thunderbolt. Others can manufacture thunderbolt controllers and Apple stated that the M1 had an in-house designed thunderbolt controller.