I fully subscribe to comments criticising this internal non-instantly replaceable battery issue. Scandalous if not a complete scam!

I am so disgusted with the internal laptop batteries and no DVD drive and not enough ports for that matter. Why do laptops have be be so "thin" anyway? Is everybody so weak physically that they can't carry a few pounds? I am currently recovering from surgery and temporarily have to use a cane. I have no problem carrying my old "heavy" laptop.

I write from this laptop ( 2006 - 450€ Lenovo 3000 N100 Intel Core 2 Duo processor T5500 ). The battery lasted 4-5 years. Since then it works without battery, without any problems and without data loss during power outages. I do not walk with the laptop, there are tablets for this use. I use laptop instead of desktop because there is no reason to fill my house with boxes, screens, keyboards, cables and dust.
Over the years the software became obsolete. So I decided to look for a modern laptop with more features. I did a good market research. What I found was laptops without a removable battery, without an Ethernet port, without a DVD. I always refer to laptops that have a reasonable price, because the use I make is basic. I also saw that buyers are not very happy with the products they buy. They refer to poor quality, slow operation, screen problems, etc. I also saw the prices of laptops go up a lot, maybe due to the pandemic.
So I decided that the laptop I have is superior to the ones sold today in this price category (around € 500). So I paid €20 and added more RAM. I will see if I can replace the hard drive with an SSD. In general, the laptop has never been fast in internal operations, but on the Internet it goes very well as I can easily open many tabs in browsers (xubuntu system), even two browsers at once (firefox-chromium), which is not at all self-evident in modern laptops.
Evolution is one thing and progress is another. Evolution is to have better software and hardware. Progress is to have happier consumers. If every laptop could last 15 years, like mine, the manufacturers would have gone bankrupt. So, the battery issue makes sense ...

Have you ever had a laptop lock up on you and the only way to reboot it is to remove/disconnect the battery? When you need a special screwdriver to open up the back of your computer ON THE FLY, an internal battery is the last thing you want to mess with. How often does lockup happen? Well for me it's been unpredictable but often enough that I'm compelled to write this message. (Hope you're listening Dell!)

Also if the battery is not hot swappable the almost none of them will be removed and disposed of properly they will just as toxic waste in a landfill. CrApple lobby hard (lots of cash and threats)  to it's iPhone battery declared user removable in the EU where that is the law, even though you needed a special pentalobe screwdriver. Nonswapable PC batteries is just another feature designed for forced obsolesce, because the laptop is saturated the only way to increase sales is to force users to throw out laptops as quickly as possible. It works great of profits, of course it costs more in longterm disposal cost but that comes from everyone's pocket not the manufacturer's.

Just looking to buy a new Lenovo but this is a deal breaker.

I need 16hrs of battery life to justify buying one, I do a lot of long haul travel. Any other features are irrelevant in a computer with no power so...

Quote from: anon on July 15, 2019, 01:53:44
1. Instead of swapping out batteries on the go, today we have type-C battery packs, compatible with most new laptops.

2. For repairability, the proprietary nature of both internal and external battery packs is the biggest problem IMO. Unscrewing a ThinkPad only takes a few minutes and batteries only die after several years. But, old model, proprietary batteries still in good shape can be hard to obtain.

3. Laptops like the Dell XPS 15 (97 Whr) and Samsung Notebook 9 NP900X3T (75 Whr and 13" but still weighs less than a kilogram) show that large internal batteries are possible in lightweight devices.
XPS 15, 942 minutes on WiF v1.3
T480 (24+72Whr), 794 minutes on WiFi v1.3

Overall the biggest loss is customization. A T490 will only ever have one battery capacity. I also hope to push USB-PD battery packs into the discussion because they obviate the need for the "bridge" part of the "power bridge" in my opinion. When you say "Still, extended batteries does become impossible and taking along spares does as well." I disagree with the last point.

Totally agreed, since there are decent usb-c power banks on the market, I couldn't care less for proprietary external batteries. I can basically use that PB on every notebook from every manufacturer I might own until it's finally dead.

And as long as they are replaceable (by the user!), internal batteries are fine. After all, how often do you have to replace them? I still use a T430 (2013) as my primary rig with only its third battery now. In the same time span, I also had to replace the trackpad (+keyboard, since it comes as a single unit) twice.
In everyday life, internal batteries simply offer too many advantages (so it can be either more robust, lighter, less bulky or cheaper)

@ anon
"Soldered RAM and soldered storage is bad. Internal slotted memory and storage is great, but they are just as internal and as replaceable as an internal battery. What is the problem?"

My T420 weighs 2Kg which is not of a big difference comparing to the latest T490 model. Also the battery life is for sure shorter than the newer models with U CPU but that is because of the new advances in CPU technology and frugal CPUs (which in return allows for smaller batteries for the same duration) not from soldering parts and reducing upgradeability - serviceability and useful functionality like hotswap of batteries.

Finally, personnaly I am okay with having internal only battery if it is replaceable, and not soldered but you still lose the option of having a spare battery to use on the go.. so it is a step back.

Remember we are talking about professional laptops here, not "fashion" items.

Lenovo should leave at least one line in its lineup that has removable/extendable battery. IMHO it should be T, e.g. the "main" Thinkpad line.  In other words, they should've stayed with the *80 generation structure in the T line (there's the S model, right?). There's also Carbons, and generally entire X1 for the sexy fancy schmancy models with 5h battery life.

Nowadays, there is NO THINKPAD WITH MASSIVE BATTERY LIFE period. One of the major selling points of the brand has been slaughtered. Even if the P53 has 96Whr, with its internals it won't have too long of a battery life.

Hey, remember T560 with its 25 hours? Yeah. That's what I mean.

Quote from: Konstantinos on July 15, 2019, 05:52:20
@ anton

How old are you? Probably you have no idea how thinkpads used to be until very recently. Example my Thinkpad T420. Upgrades that I did to it:

Replaced the battery with a new one twice, roughly every three years. Even now the market is full of quality batteries for this model after 8 years.

Replaced the TN screen with a new IPS. Yes only the screen not the whole lid, it is only two screws to open it.

Replace the 2 HDs with SSDs.

Replaced both RAMs with (nothing soldered) with a set of new 16GB.

Changed the motherboard from Sandy Bridge to Ivy Bridge form the compatible T430!

Changed the CPU twice: initial i5-2520M, after the new motherboard i5-3340M, and lastly I installed the i7-3740QM. Yes the CPUs were socketed. My T420 now is faster than the new T490! It scores 670 points at Cinebench 15.

And finally, I dropped it few times from my desk to the floor, including one week ago from the airport's screening machine to the marble floor and nothing happened to it!!

And you are telling me that having a USB thingy hanging with a cable from the side of an non upgradeable  laptop is the future!

This trend of "obsolete by design" was pioneered by CrApple only to make more money. No thanks!

Don't blame crApple, blame Lenovo for being a sheep. 

@Konstantinos, How much does your laptop weigh? How long does it last on battery (something like the WiFi v1.3 test)?

I am not convinced that internal batteries will be too much more difficult to replace than external ones. I am concerned about their future support/compatibility/still being manufactured, internal or external. But you have mentioned that the T420 battery still is being manufactured--that's great to hear. Last I checked I had great confusion trying to make sure that a new T470 external battery would be compatible, I think there were several versions that I could not tell apart online--there were arguments about whether or not they were compatible (61+ or 61++ or something like that), so I skipped the purchase. I have had many bad experiences trying to buy batteries for old devices, so that's why I am so glad that USB-PD will at least standardize power banks up to 100W for many years to come.

Even now, as I search for "T470 battery" on Amazon I see "61++" "61" "68+" "70++" "61+" "68" "57++" and others, some without model numbers, and I am sure that some will work, and some won't, and some would come with greatly reduced capacity because they are counterfeit or old. I also see the internal 24Wh battery for sale, too, just the same.

Soldered RAM and soldered storage is bad. Internal slotted memory and storage is great, but they are just as internal and as replaceable as an internal battery. What is the problem?

We might as well boycott all practices of internal batteries in our devices and by cheap tablet with a keyboard at least it will cost less then the price of a laptop replacement every six months to a year when and upgrade is needed

There should be a law banning glued batteries or non-replaceable batteries.

The practice doesn't help anyone. A battery lifespan can be improved exponentially if it is taken out when laptop as used as a desktop as there is no reason to expose it to heat which damages the battery.

@ anton

How old are you? Probably you have no idea how thinkpads used to be until very recently. Example my Thinkpad T420. Upgrades that I did to it:

Replaced the battery with a new one twice, roughly every three years. Even now the market is full of quality batteries for this model after 8 years.

Replaced the TN screen with a new IPS. Yes only the screen not the whole lid, it is only two screws to open it.

Replace the 2 HDs with SSDs.

Replaced both RAMs with (nothing soldered) with a set of new 16GB.

Changed the motherboard from Sandy Bridge to Ivy Bridge form the compatible T430!

Changed the CPU twice: initial i5-2520M, after the new motherboard i5-3340M, and lastly I installed the i7-3740QM. Yes the CPUs were socketed. My T420 now is faster than the new T490! It scores 670 points at Cinebench 15.

And finally, I dropped it few times from my desk to the floor, including one week ago from the airport's screening machine to the marble floor and nothing happened to it!!

And you are telling me that having a USB thingy hanging with a cable from the side of an non upgradeable  laptop is the future!

This trend of "obsolete by design" was pioneered by CrApple only to make more money. No thanks!

Yes, I have expressed my dissatisfaction with the strange decision by Lenovo on Reddit recently.  If I find another mfgr that provides good l, long lasting builds with proper external batteries, I will switch.