Quote from: Tky on April 23, 2021, 19:16:00
Yay, hello new iPad Pro that is even more flipping expensive than the last one ever and that sucks...

Just joking.

The new iPad Pro looks nice though not gonna lie, even though I'm not a Apple fanboy or whatever. I'm just curious to see if whether the new iPad Pro will heat up quite badly because of the M1 Soc in reviews.
Also, I'm planning to buy a new iPad in 2021, excluding the iPad Pro which is just too expensive in my opinion, which one shall I go for guys? Thanks. :)

The main reasons to be buying the latest generations would be the miniLED display and M1, if you don't go for the current gen iPP because of the price, might as well go for last gen iPP which saw a rare price drop compared to its predecessor though little change in hardware. Something refurbished would provide even better value.

Yay, hello new iPad Pro that is even more flipping expensive than the last one ever and that sucks...

Just joking.

The new iPad Pro looks nice though not gonna lie, even though I'm not a Apple fanboy or whatever. I'm just curious to see if whether the new iPad Pro will heat up quite badly because of the M1 Soc in reviews.
Also, I'm planning to buy a new iPad in 2021, excluding the iPad Pro which is just too expensive in my opinion, which one shall I go for guys? Thanks. :)

Quote from: Dorby on April 22, 2021, 15:27:56
Sorry you're right, that's what I meant...

The point being that there is a natural division and that complete convergence might be impossible without sacrificing user experience. Also, be careful what you wish for. Such convergence might spell the end of being able to load whatever software you want onto your Mac. Or the end of being able to write and run code without being part of their developer program.

Quote from: Dorby on April 22, 2021, 15:27:56
Sorry you're right, that's what I meant. More like MacOS, as in making iPad OS friendlier for mouse and keyboard use, and making new versions of MacOS programs as iPad apps. A14 already hasn't been taking advantage of its full potential, and upping it to M1 and 16GB would indicate maybe Apple has some plans to experiment with developing more powerful native apps for ARM mobile. Of course they'll have to take both Touch UI and Desktop UI into account, which would be a challenge indeed to execute flawlessly.

So I expect some major systematic change updates coming to iPad OS in the next year to accommodate Mac-iPad hybrid apps. After all, this has happened before with the 2018 iPad Pro when they first separated IOS from iPad OS.

No need to apologize. I think an even bigger indication of that was inclusion of a touchpad on their iPad keyboard. In this case, the interesting part isn't M1 as such (we weren't entirely sure whether Apple will call it M1 or A14X, but we had a pretty good idea what the processor will look like), but the usage of the 16 GB version. That indeed indicates that something heavier might be coming, or at least they envision third parties might want to develop something heavier.

Yes, this direction is more feasible. It's a more gradual way compared to the other way around - making MacOS applications touch compatible. I think a big question is touch on desktop. Touch is no-brainer on handheld devices. Already on a (non-convertible) MacBook it's debatable. But on a desktop? I'm not a fan. Which means you need applications that can be fully controlled without a touchscreen. And ideally be comfortable to use and not waste space (just look to the web; tablet or phone optimized websites can be awful to use). Would such an application be a good fit for a tablet as well? I think the most feasible way might be to simply have (at least) two interfaces. And perhaps let users choose. So that if you're using a tablet as a laptop replacement, you can choose the keyboard plus mouse version.

Quote from: _MT_ on April 22, 2021, 15:00:26

Quote from: Dorby on April 22, 2021, 04:39:47
However I can't help but think that Apple is looking to make the iPad OS more like MacOS. Because otherwise, this M1 move would be completely pointless.

I don't follow. How exactly is M1 different from what A14X would have been (given the difference between A12 and A12X)? We're looking at rebranding and possible consolidation (one chip for both high-end tablet and entry-level laptop instead of two very similar chips).

The big problem is software. Always has been. I'm not talking about binaries. I'm talking about user interfaces. If you want to see convergence, then Apple either has to motivate developers to adapt user interfaces to facilitate touch input or Apple has to lower their standards for user experience. As it stands, touch on MacOS just won't fly. I could imagine a MacBook with a touchscreen, but only to allow applications for iPad or iPhone to run on a MacBook. That might sound interesting for developers but who else would actually benefit? From what I hear, people might be more interested in the other way around - MacOS applications on a tablet. But that's where you hit the problem of user interface and the fact that Apple is pretty serious about user experience (it's unlikely they would simply install MacOS on an iPad and call it a day like Microsoft - even though some people would take it and dick around with small UI elements).

Sorry you're right, that's what I meant. More like MacOS, as in making iPad OS friendlier for mouse and keyboard use, and making new versions of MacOS programs as iPad apps. A14 already hasn't been taking advantage of its full potential, and upping it to M1 and 16GB would indicate maybe Apple has some plans to experiment with developing more powerful native apps for ARM mobile. Of course they'll have to take both Touch UI and Desktop UI into account, which would be a challenge indeed to execute flawlessly.

So I expect some major systematic change updates coming to iPad OS in the next year to accommodate Mac-iPad hybrid apps. After all, this has happened before with the 2018 iPad Pro when they first separated IOS from iPad OS.

Quote from: Dorby on April 22, 2021, 04:39:47
However I can't help but think that Apple is looking to make the iPad OS more like MacOS. Because otherwise, this M1 move would be completely pointless.

I don't follow. How exactly is M1 different from what A14X would have been (given the difference between A12 and A12X)? We're looking at rebranding and possible consolidation (one chip for both high-end tablet and entry-level laptop instead of two very similar chips).

The big problem is software. Always has been. I'm not talking about binaries. I'm talking about user interfaces. If you want to see convergence, then Apple either has to motivate developers to adapt user interfaces to facilitate touch input or Apple has to lower their standards for user experience. As it stands, touch on MacOS just won't fly. I could imagine a MacBook with a touchscreen, but only to allow applications for iPad or iPhone to run on a MacBook. That might sound interesting for developers but who else would actually benefit? From what I hear, people might be more interested in the other way around - MacOS applications on a tablet. But that's where you hit the problem of user interface and the fact that Apple is pretty serious about user experience (it's unlikely they would simply install MacOS on an iPad and call it a day like Microsoft - even though some people would take it and dick around with small UI elements).

For me it's not even about pro audio, video editing, graphics or artwork.
If the iPad Pro can somehow dual-boot or virtualize ChromeOS, then I'll be happy. Over the years, the only reason keeping me from abandoning my thin&light 2-in-1 ultrabooks and instead fully switching to something like the Galaxy Tab S7+ was the absence of Desktop Chrome browser.
Unfortunately there aren't iPad Pro quality ChromeOS Tablets that can run Full Android Apps, which is a shame because ChromeOS has 8+ years of promised Android version updates.

I also do audio work, and for that I use a 15" workstation laptop, which I agree with Ishraqiyun that Windows 10 is irreplaceable, and also the extra screen real-estate is needed. The same is true for most STEM related programs used in Labs, Hospitals, Field-work, Engineering, etc, which already has industry-standard x86 programs on Windows 10 which are unparalleled.

However I can't help but think that Apple is looking to make the iPad OS more like MacOS. Because otherwise, this M1 move would be completely pointless.

Aside from the potentially standing issue that it could still be ripped apart with bare hands, this is quite impressive. Expensive of course, and one single TB port is a waste of the controller(at least they could add another C port to the keyboard cover), but the screen is probably enough so that I'll eventually make the upgrade from my 1st gen iPP. The iPP has always been about the screen (and the speakers I suppose) and this model makes a stronger case than ever.

Quote from: DF on April 20, 2021, 21:40:09
Hmm that sets the bar quite a bit higher for the Surface Pro, which often tries to exceed the Ipad Pro series (not that this happens all the time of course).  That's a pretty impressive screen.  Often which such brightness comes a hit to battery life since screens are usually the largest power consumer of a device.  Have to see if that is the case with testing right?

I don't think they ever succeeded, apart from the advantage of being able to run everything on Windows instead of being locked down to the App store with iOS.

Quote from: Pierre-Alexandre Sicart on April 21, 2021, 03:39:47
I've never owned a Mac, and I'm deeply invested in the Windows ecosystem, but even then, if these M1 tablets could switch between iOS and MacOS, I'd very seriously consider making the jump.

Now that the under-the-hood specs are so similar, it becomes really obvious that the only reason not to allow the iPad Pro to also use MacOS is to force Apple consumers to buy two products where one would do the Job.

Bingo.

The Apple cultist will argue that "force" is a strong word and that no one is holding a gun to your head, but semantics aside, if you want to buy into the Apple ecosystem, this is your only option.

Apple will never release a convertible / 2-in-1 MacBook because they don't want it to compete with their iPad business.

Apple will never release an iOS version that is actually conducive to productivity, or close to being a desktop replacement OS, because it will compete with their Mac business. iOS might suite casual users, but definitely not power users, and why would you spend so much on a device if you are just a casual user? Conspicuous consumption?

Don't get me wrong, I'd get an iPad with M1 if it could actually be used for any of my use cases: programming and pro audio. M1 obviously can't be beat in the laptop and tablet format when it comes to single core and power consumption. I'd make the switch to M1 if Apple released a device worth buying that has it... that hasn't happened yet.

Quote from: Dan Ridenhour on April 21, 2021, 15:38:40
If your doing production audio... the iPad is a Rockstar.

I'd love to hear this elaborated on... I do production audio and any time I've looked at what iOS has to offer it is either:

1) Something I wouldn't consider even remotely close to "production"... something to tinker with, bang out some really rough ideas, awful workflow, little plugin support or just terrible plugins... basically something I'd consider just a step above a toy.

2) An app that just extends a macOS or Windows application using the iPad as mixing control surface, for example.

Quote from: Dan Ridenhour on April 21, 2021, 15:38:40
The new iMac and iPad Pro look great but some of the differences between them are seeming more and more 'manufactured'.  One one side apple wont' do touch screens on their macs so you can't really develop iPad apps and test them without having an iPad too...  on the other iPadOS and hard the new hardware has all the power to be a great iPad dev platform except they don't let pro level apps like XCode run on the device.   So all it does it keep the barrier to entry for iPad development high as you have to buy both...  as a primarily windows developer... that just keeps me out of their sandbox as I'm not a big fan of how they 'think' development wise anyway... it feels backwards most the time. 

If your doing production audio, video or art the iPad is a rock star.  But as a software developer its really a sore spot... and one that apple seems intent on maintaining.

Just buy a Mac mini or MacBook Air, whichever you prefer, and a normal iPad. Previously, I would have recommended iPad Air but they annoyed me by hiking its price. It's not like you have to pay $5000 per year to be a developer.

For Apple, I imagine a serious problem is that MacOS wasn't designed for touch input, meaning none of the software is designed for it. Elements aren't big enough for fingers. This isn't Microsoft. And from the mobile side, code compilation/ interpretation is a limitation. Of course, Xcode is their own product. They don't have to follow the rules set for third parties. They could do it if they wanted to. But they would probably have to re-do it to have a finger friendly interface.

The new iMac and iPad Pro look great but some of the differences between them are seeming more and more 'manufactured'.  One one side apple wont' do touch screens on their macs so you can't really develop iPad apps and test them without having an iPad too...  on the other iPadOS and hard the new hardware has all the power to be a great iPad dev platform except they don't let pro level apps like XCode run on the device.   So all it does it keep the barrier to entry for iPad development high as you have to buy both...  as a primarily windows developer... that just keeps me out of their sandbox as I'm not a big fan of how they 'think' development wise anyway... it feels backwards most the time. 

If your doing production audio, video or art the iPad is a rock star.  But as a software developer its really a sore spot... and one that apple seems intent on maintaining.

Start at is really start at price
If you want 2TB it costs $2000 and more.
So, better buy Macbook?

I've never owned a Mac, and I'm deeply invested in the Windows ecosystem, but even then, if these M1 tablets could switch between iOS and MacOS, I'd very seriously consider making the jump.

Now that the under-the-hood specs are so similar, it becomes really obvious that the only reason not to allow the iPad Pro to also use MacOS is to force Apple consumers to buy two products where one would do the Job.

So a M1 MacBook with a vastly inferior operating system and a touchscreen that costs more money? If it could actually be used for productivity (software development in my case), I'd be interested. iOS isn't meant to be a productive OS, so you have a pretty expensive and overpowered device for dabbling, surfing and playing mobile games.