Here is what everyone is missing.  For over a year now Amazon, Walmart, Target, Best Buy, Sears and others have all participated in scalping the very same products they are meant to be selling at MSRP.  How did this happen?  The retailers want to profit in anyway possible, including scalping.  So when a limited hot item comes out during a pandemic, why let ebayers make all the scalping profit.  Now these site advertise for scalpers right on the same webpage that is constantly out of stock.  These companies always had ps5 in stock but only from the scalpers that the advertise for, never actual retail.  This major breach in anti-trust laws has stolen many millions of dollars from Americans.  I don't buy from scalpers but these retailers trick consumers into thinking scalpers are retial!!!!  Does anyone know a new online retailer who isnt a scumbag company like these ones?

well what do you expect , there is an article about ebay scalping for gpus which a guy that works at cisco did a data log of all sales for the 30 series gpus and on just ebay alone that they had in total about 82 million dollars worth of the video cards. which if you look at the bigger picture is a huge chunk of the available product. peoples ideas are that if you create more of them it will drive down demand. but with the way this beast is they instantly buy anything that gets listed on any kind of webshop , which could drive them bankrupt or at least strangle them from buying more. but in the mean time people just keep buying them at these insane mark ups. right now those vidoe cards are msrp for 600-1200 dollars are right now all sold out for the foreseeable future (unless you get beyond lucky) because bots auto buy them the second they are available. turn around and sell them for anywhere from 2400 dollars to 3600 dollars. honestly it wouldnt surprise me if they have backing and are doing this to all gaming platforms be it console or pc.

Price-gouging, scalping....it's completely silly & short-term. A hand-full of people took advantage of "immature" consumers feeling heavy with "1st-world anxiety". And then 1000's of copycat sellers jumped on the gravy-train HOPING they could dupe at least a few desperate consumers. Which they did.

But then these sellers got almost unimaginably greedy - like apocalyptic levels of greed. For a video gaming system. Sellers were acquiring dozens of copies of consoles (and bragging as well) while adding upwards of $1000 to the MSRP & offering bundles to further confuse the situation as well.

Would you really pay $1750 for a game console, 2 games, and an extra controller? Apparently, some consumers already have - but won't publicly admit it.

What we do know is most scalpers are not retail shops. This level of gouging would definitely sour their regular business.

Quote from: Arjun Krishna Lal on February 22, 2021, 14:33:27

Quote from: Astra on February 21, 2021, 15:40:40
It worked because India is a price-conscious market.

I would actually argue otherwise :) The console market in India is very small. Most Indian gamers are either on entry-level PC or mobile (mobile for the most part). The people who actually buy consoles and high-end PC hardware tend to be one-percenters. Companies know this, which is why MSRPs for high end PC and console hardware are so absurdly high. That $700 figure for the PS5 isn't just import duties - it's Sony setting the price that high. I got my AIB GeForce RTX 3080 for INR 82,000, which is around $1100...that wasn't a scalping price, it's just how much the damn thing costs because of economics. Scalpers here are were looking to take those already expensive products and then crank the rates up EVEN HIGHER. The market for high-end gaming is already small in India. By doing this, they basically created a situation where no one at all was willing to pay - not so much out of general price-consciousness - as it does just plain absurd pricing.

Interesting. You would think it would be the opposite, that rich people wouldn't care so much about paying a bit extra. But maybe because there's so few, relatively, it just made it easier to coordinate against the scalpers, as there weren't enough people for there to always be somebody willing to break and pay the extortion.

I wonder, based on what you said, what the true cause and effect in India is, i.e. did the chicken or the egg come first. Do Sony and others really sell that high because only rich people buy them, or do only rich people buy them because they sell so high. IOW, if they were to sell at more reasonable prices, might more "average" people buy them and Sony would sell more consoles and gain more market share and probably still make similar profits, just through larger volume.

Quote from: Astra on February 21, 2021, 15:40:40
It worked because India is a price-conscious market.

I would actually argue otherwise :) The console market in India is very small. Most Indian gamers are either on entry-level PC or mobile (mobile for the most part). The people who actually buy consoles and high-end PC hardware tend to be one-percenters. Companies know this, which is why MSRPs for high end PC and console hardware are so absurdly high. That $700 figure for the PS5 isn't just import duties - it's Sony setting the price that high. I got my AIB GeForce RTX 3080 for INR 82,000, which is around $1100...that wasn't a scalping price, it's just how much the damn thing costs because of economics. Scalpers here are were looking to take those already expensive products and then crank the rates up EVEN HIGHER. The market for high-end gaming is already small in India. By doing this, they basically created a situation where no one at all was willing to pay - not so much out of general price-consciousness - as it does just plain absurd pricing. 

See the issue here isnt just consoles , they are doing this with the 3000 series nvidia GPUs and now they are also doing it with the AMD ryzen 5000 series cpus and you think they will stop there if allowed to continue? people need to stop using their little minded ideology of "I own said item so i should be able to sell it for what i want" yeah its cool if you had one of the damned things and you wanted to sell it sure what ever. but when you are cornering the market in such a way that pretty much no consumers can actually purchase at the fucking price a bunch of wanker bots got it for....thats called stupidity. but hey who needs morals when they control the market on the best hardware a gamer (console gamer or pc) can get ahold of cause profit.

It worked because India is a price-conscious market.

Quote from: _MT_ on February 21, 2021, 12:04:21

Quote from: vertigo on February 21, 2021, 03:54:41
Ideally, they should actually drive them down further, so they have to sell at a loss, even if only a few dollars.

If they had to pay shipping, they'd already be losing some money.

It is, however, legally questionable. If I want to sell something at ten times the MSRP, I can. You don't have to like it, but you don't have to buy it either. This problem exists because there are buyers willing to pay that much. If nobody was willing to pay above MSRP, there would be no scalpers. As is often the case, people have only themselves to blame. Clearly, the stock is very limited. That won't change. You'll just make it more of a lottery rather than a wallet measuring contest. But many (most?) will still be left waiting and moaning. Personally, I wouldn't pay anywhere close to MSRP to such a questionable source. But that's just me. There is a trivial way of beating bots. It's called waiting list or backorder. At least where I live, many shops will take orders for merchandise not in stock as long as they expect to be able to fulfil it (even if it means waiting a couple months). Scalpers can do the same. But retailers can limit quantities per customer.

To somewhat lift your spirits, in my country, PS5 should be available in mid-August 2021 if I order it now. It is what it is.

Nothing questionably legal about it. For starters, at least in some countries, scalping is illegal. But as you said, and this goes for anything (that's how economies work, after all), things can be sold for whatever people are willing to pay for them, with some notable exceptions like medications that are controlled to an extent by law. I have mentioned a few times here the same as you, that if people just stopped buying from the scalpers it would put an end to them, but people won't do that, because they just have to have the latest and greatest whatever. So they can certainly refuse to pay even MSRP to them. They just won't. And I personally have zero interest in buying either console or one of the new-gen GPUs, so it doesn't personally affect me one way or the other, I just think the whole situation is ridiculous.

I wonder how warranty claims will work for systems bought from scalpers. Do Sony and/or MS only honor the warranty if bought from an authorized retailer?

Quote from: vertigo on February 21, 2021, 03:54:41
Ideally, they should actually drive them down further, so they have to sell at a loss, even if only a few dollars.

If they had to pay shipping, they'd already be losing some money.

It is, however, legally questionable. If I want to sell something at ten times the MSRP, I can. You don't have to like it, but you don't have to buy it either. This problem exists because there are buyers willing to pay that much. If nobody was willing to pay above MSRP, there would be no scalpers. As is often the case, people have only themselves to blame. Clearly, the stock is very limited. That won't change. You'll just make it more of a lottery rather than a wallet measuring contest. But many (most?) will still be left waiting and moaning. Personally, I wouldn't pay anywhere close to MSRP to such a questionable source. But that's just me. There is a trivial way of beating bots. It's called waiting list or backorder. At least where I live, many shops will take orders for merchandise not in stock as long as they expect to be able to fulfil it (even if it means waiting a couple months). Scalpers can do the same. But retailers can limit quantities per customer.

To somewhat lift your spirits, in my country, PS5 should be available in mid-August 2021 if I order it now. It is what it is.

Quote from: JackH on February 21, 2021, 02:40:08
THIS is how you do it.  STOP THEM by forcing them to resale for MSRP. >:D 8) :-*

Ideally, they should actually drive them down further, so they have to sell at a loss, even if only a few dollars.

Try pressuring Swappa.com to discourage their sellers for PS5

Quote from: JackH on February 21, 2021, 02:40:08
THIS is how you do it.  STOP THEM by forcing them to resale for MSRP. >:D 8) :-*

THIS is how you do it.  STOP THEM by forcing them to resale for MSRP. >:D 8) :-*

I think a great idea would be for Sony to sell their PlayStation 5 online to current PS4 owners sold to them through their online membership via Sony PlayStation store sell them at retail cost with an attic shipping and handling charge for delivery to the individuals door.
I believe this would ensure one PlayStation per household and ensure that actual gamers get the product not profiteers