Quote from: Joshua on February 13, 2021, 04:31:38
Disclaimer: There seem to be some labelling/name-calling going on within the comments below, so I will just say in advance that I'm neither a fan or hater of Huawei and I have a neutral standpoint regarding this particular topic. I never liked numerous misleading claims they made for their phones in the past, but this is not one of them.

Here comes the single biggest issue with this Ars Technica's article, and it is that they did not provide a single evidence to disprove Huawei's claim. They did an astonishingly great job at making it look like they do, but in actuality, every single remark they make in the article is irrelevant to the official statements made by Huawei. Let's break them down one by one by quoting from the comments below.

Claim: UI of HarmonyOS feels identical to Android's.
Refutation: "For their mobile devices, they chose Android system as the component that runs on top of Harmony OS to attract Android app developers. They even stated that they will use AOSP UI in the early stage of transition to make everything go smoothly so there shouldn't have been anything for people to upset about in the first place."

Claim: HarmonyOS has the Android system components including all the Android libraries, ADB, and the Android app support that is equivalent to that in Android OS.
Refutation: "Just don%u2019t expect the UI to look all that different %u2013 Harmony and EMUI share a lot of code. Really, it%u2019s what%u2019s under the hood that is different. In fact, Harmony can run Android apps just fine."
"It has ADB and all the Android system components too! .....again, Android system is used for user interaction."

Claim: Devinfo says that the emulator runs on Android 10, and Huawei's own app store, App Gallery, got all the apps somehow compatible with this unreleased, brand new OS.
Refutation: "...all apps run on Android subsystem so of course it recognises it as Android."

Claim: Huawei's SDK for HarmonyOS (for mobile) is a rebranded Android SDK.
Refutation: "Makes sense because they will be using Android subsystem to interact with users at least for now"

Claim: Ark Compiler, one of the components that differentiates HarmonyOS from Android OS, hasn't had its code updated for a long time. The link to the depo is dead and the official page is inaccessible.
Refutation: "The original page is still accessible through mobile browsers (The security certificate for the website is incorrectly configured and desktop browsers reject the connection), and they moved all the codes of the compiler to a different repo so everything still remains there and gets updated regularly."

Claim: Nobody would buy into HarmonyOS when it's a rebranded Android.
Refutation: Since the author failed to provide an evidence that it is a rebranded Android, this claim doesn't make sense in the first place.

Another traceless random claiming to be impartial putting up a wall of text that resembles a defense.


I think I can cut that short:

Claim: "Makes sense because they will be using Android subsystem to interact with users at least for now"

Refutation: Really? That's your "refutation", that "Huawei's SDK for HarmonyOS (for mobile) is a rebranded Android SDK", "makes sense because they will be using Android subsystem to interact with users at least for now"? I call that an excuse. You admitted Ars's accusation is truthful but made an excuse for Huawei.


Claim:"Just don%u2019t expect the UI to look all that different %u2013 Harmony and EMUI share a lot of code. Really, it%u2019s what%u2019s under the hood that is different. In fact, Harmony can run Android apps just fine."
"It has ADB and all the Android system components too! .....again, Android system is used for user interaction."
"Since the author failed to provide an evidence that it is a rebranded Android, this claim doesn't make sense in the first place."

Refute: Occam's Razor. The theologists keep claiming some deity of theirs exists and must have created the universe. Scientists can't definitively prove that it don't exist, but the theory of thermodynamics is far more elegant and refined than the twisted religious stories told to convince people something that exists behind everything but can't be proven. In this case, you're trying to convince people that there's a "Specter of Harmony" hovering above the Android OS running everything in that demonstration.

Actually, since everything found in that demonstration is effectively Android, it doesn't matter whether there's "support", because even if there's no "native" support, Huawei could port everything automatically, and the believers could still indulge in the illusion that they're running everything Android on something not Android. So since they've had AOSP access all along, their devices have had effective full functionality in China, and non-Google international (CCP-banned) apps were basically filled in with their Appgallery, this "looks like Android runs like Android but is not Android" narrative matters only because Huawei is putting on a show for the domestic jingoists.

Quote from: JZVR on February 09, 2021, 12:16:08

Quote from: S.Yu on February 06, 2021, 19:07:58

Quote from: JZVR on February 06, 2021, 07:47:40

Quote from: S.Yu on February 05, 2021, 21:19:52

Quote from: JZVR on February 05, 2021, 13:46:31

Quote from: AndyChow on February 04, 2021, 15:35:48
HarmonyOS is a pure clone of Android 10. The so-called New microkernel was never built, and the kernel is neither new or micro. It's 100% the Android kernel with no modification.
Now, Android did use linux at it's base, but they've always made their SDK public and released all code publicly. Meanwhile HarmonyOS is illegally closed source, because they haven't had the time to rebrand the code and pretend they wrote it.
They can spin in anyway they want, invent whatever story, it's a rebranded clone, with identical structure and kernel.

So how is Harmony OS running hap files then instead of just being able to run apk ones? There's an hap installation of the JD.com app running on Harmony OS already. Do any of you claiming this ridiculous stuff actually know anything about coding/kernels at all?

Why are these anonymous trolls not held accountable? Why aren't their IP addresses public? For all we know it could be one troll behind all these handles. At least force them to use VPNs when posing as different people? The Ars article already made it very clear that unzipping the hap revealed a bunch of Android code, nothing else. A grade school kid could come up with an unused extension to disguise a zip file.

Lol show me some Android devices that can do this then?

Search for "Here's what Android cannot do but HarmonyOS 2.0 can, the power of distributed technology [Video]"

There's a video on the page. When you find Android devices with their monolithic kernels that can do this let me know.

Why aren't trolls like you who can't bring anything technical to the table held accountable with your IP made public? For all we know it could be the same troll behind all these posts. If you're going to troll at least learn the basics first.

This troll calls changing extension names technical, goes to show what level it trolls at. When you have an account with thousands of tracable comments across years like mine it might be worth considering whether or not you shall be judged by anything other than your grade school work here. And breaking compatibility is as simple as minor change in syntax, good try trolling for Huawei, try harder next time.

So name me some Android devices that can do what Harmony OS ones can on that page then? Go ahead I'll wait. The number of posts doesn't change the fact you're a Huawei hating troll who can't bring anything actual to back up your claims.

My thousands of comments show that I'm a regular visitor of this site who takes interest in multiple topics, OTOH you're just a random troll astroturfing for Huawei under an article that reports on Huawei's daily fabrications.
That 40s video basically showed a page on one device synced to another when prompted, and you're asking me what other devices could do this?? What hole did you just crawl out of? Even Chrome could do this! You're the same troll over at Ars aren't you? You spew paltry lies that muddy the water one after another until somebody takes a couple minutes to actually look into what BS you're spreading!

Disclaimer: There seem to be some labelling/name-calling going on within the comments below, so I will just say in advance that I'm neither a fan or hater of Huawei and I have a neutral standpoint regarding this particular topic. I never liked numerous misleading claims they made for their phones in the past, but this is not one of them.

Here comes the single biggest issue with this Ars Technica's article, and it is that they did not provide a single evidence to disprove Huawei's claim. They did an astonishingly great job at making it look like they do, but in actuality, every single remark they make in the article is irrelevant to the official statements made by Huawei. Let's break them down one by one by quoting from the comments below.

Claim: UI of HarmonyOS feels identical to Android's.
Refutation: "For their mobile devices, they chose Android system as the component that runs on top of Harmony OS to attract Android app developers. They even stated that they will use AOSP UI in the early stage of transition to make everything go smoothly so there shouldn't have been anything for people to upset about in the first place."

Claim: HarmonyOS has the Android system components including all the Android libraries, ADB, and the Android app support that is equivalent to that in Android OS.
Refutation: "Just don't expect the UI to look all that different – Harmony and EMUI share a lot of code. Really, it's what's under the hood that is different. In fact, Harmony can run Android apps just fine."
"It has ADB and all the Android system components too! .....again, Android system is used for user interaction."

Claim: Devinfo says that the emulator runs on Android 10, and Huawei's own app store, App Gallery, got all the apps somehow compatible with this unreleased, brand new OS.
Refutation: "...all apps run on Android subsystem so of course it recognises it as Android."

Claim: Huawei's SDK for HarmonyOS (for mobile) is a rebranded Android SDK.
Refutation: "Makes sense because they will be using Android subsystem to interact with users at least for now"

Claim: Ark Compiler, one of the components that differentiates HarmonyOS from Android OS, hasn't had its code updated for a long time. The link to the depo is dead and the official page is inaccessible.
Refutation: "The original page is still accessible through mobile browsers (The security certificate for the website is incorrectly configured and desktop browsers reject the connection), and they moved all the codes of the compiler to a different repo so everything still remains there and gets updated regularly."

Claim: Nobody would buy into HarmonyOS when it's a rebranded Android.
Refutation: Since the author failed to provide an evidence that it is a rebranded Android, this claim doesn't make sense in the first place.

Quote from: S.Yu on February 06, 2021, 19:07:58

Quote from: JZVR on February 06, 2021, 07:47:40

Quote from: S.Yu on February 05, 2021, 21:19:52

Quote from: JZVR on February 05, 2021, 13:46:31

Quote from: AndyChow on February 04, 2021, 15:35:48
HarmonyOS is a pure clone of Android 10. The so-called New microkernel was never built, and the kernel is neither new or micro. It's 100% the Android kernel with no modification.
Now, Android did use linux at it's base, but they've always made their SDK public and released all code publicly. Meanwhile HarmonyOS is illegally closed source, because they haven't had the time to rebrand the code and pretend they wrote it.
They can spin in anyway they want, invent whatever story, it's a rebranded clone, with identical structure and kernel.

So how is Harmony OS running hap files then instead of just being able to run apk ones? There's an hap installation of the JD.com app running on Harmony OS already. Do any of you claiming this ridiculous stuff actually know anything about coding/kernels at all?

Why are these anonymous trolls not held accountable? Why aren't their IP addresses public? For all we know it could be one troll behind all these handles. At least force them to use VPNs when posing as different people? The Ars article already made it very clear that unzipping the hap revealed a bunch of Android code, nothing else. A grade school kid could come up with an unused extension to disguise a zip file.

Lol show me some Android devices that can do this then?

Search for "Here's what Android cannot do but HarmonyOS 2.0 can, the power of distributed technology [Video]"

There's a video on the page. When you find Android devices with their monolithic kernels that can do this let me know.

Why aren't trolls like you who can't bring anything technical to the table held accountable with your IP made public? For all we know it could be the same troll behind all these posts. If you're going to troll at least learn the basics first.

This troll calls changing extension names technical, goes to show what level it trolls at. When you have an account with thousands of tracable comments across years like mine it might be worth considering whether or not you shall be judged by anything other than your grade school work here. And breaking compatibility is as simple as minor change in syntax, good try trolling for Huawei, try harder next time.

So name me some Android devices that can do what Harmony OS ones can on that page then? Go ahead I'll wait. The number of posts doesn't change the fact you're a Huawei hating troll who can't bring anything actual to back up your claims.

Quote from: Alexander Kim on February 08, 2021, 15:38:57
Wow, this comment section is a mess. Mods should moderate the comments of a guy labelling anyone who is against him a 'Huawei troll'. Surely this kind of verbal attack isn't permitted on this website?

This site is not for snowflakes, much less trolling snowflakes. Engadget would suit you better.

Quote from: Bruh on February 08, 2021, 11:46:29

Quote from: S.Yu on February 07, 2021, 18:06:17

Quote from: Bruh on February 07, 2021, 02:22:09
A summary using simple words:
1. Huawei introduced Harmony OS as a base that you can run anything you want on top of it.
2. For their mobile devices, they chose Android system as the component that runs on top of Harmony OS to attract Android app developers. They even stated that they will use AOSP UI in the early stage of transition to make everything go smoothly so there shouldn't have been anything for people to upset about in the first place.
3. Now people are mad at the fact that it looks like Android because apparently if the UI looks like the one from Android then the whole OS must be as well (big kek). And because the original report came out from Ars, everyone believes it without performing a fact check on it.

Having a correct knowledge is important, guys.

If you dismiss the Ars article as judging the OS solely by its UI, then either you haven't read it and you're trolling for Huawei, or you're lying and you're trolling for Huawei.

Yes, they also went through the DevEco SDK & .hap files and complained about its similarity to Android Studio & .apk respectively (Makes sense because they will be using Android subsystem to interact with users at least for now), and then falsely claimed that "the original page for the ARK Compiler now 404s" and " Huawei's repository for the ARK Compiler is dead". The original page is still accessible through mobile browsers (The security certificate for the website is incorrectly configured and desktop browsers reject the connection), and they moved all the codes of the compiler to a different repo so everything still remains there and gets updated regularly.

Ugh, but, devinfo reports that it runs on Android 10, not HarmonyOS! Oh wait, all apps run on Android subsystem so of course it recognises it as Android. It has ADB and all the Android system components too! .....again, Android system is used for user interaction.

At last thanks for your personal insults, you think I'm trolling for Huawei because I called out Ars for some notable inaccuracies in their original article. Hats off to your flawless logic! Big hug for you<3

Wow look who's sayin'? Let's lay everything out in the open for everyone to see:
First your accusation to Ars:"Now people are mad at the fact that it looks like Android because apparently if the UI looks like the one from Android then the whole OS must be as well"
Then my reply, which interprets your post the only way possible:"If you dismiss the Ars article as judging the OS solely by its UI, then either you haven't read it and you're trolling for Huawei, or you're lying and you're trolling for Huawei."
Now what you try to frame on me:"you think I'm trolling for Huawei because I called out Ars for some notable inaccuracies in their original article"
So according to your latest post, "notable inaccuracies in their original article" was "it looks like Android because apparently if the UI looks like the one from Android then the whole OS must be as well", because that's what I replied to, not your other excuses you just made up after the fact, and you have the audacity to insult my logic. Wow, big round of applause! Fabulous trolling, exhibiting excellent gaslighting technique!

Wow, this comment section is a mess. Mods should moderate the comments of a guy labelling anyone who is against him a 'Huawei troll'. Surely this kind of verbal attack isn't permitted on this website?

Quote from: S.Yu on February 07, 2021, 18:06:17

Quote from: Bruh on February 07, 2021, 02:22:09
A summary using simple words:
1. Huawei introduced Harmony OS as a base that you can run anything you want on top of it.
2. For their mobile devices, they chose Android system as the component that runs on top of Harmony OS to attract Android app developers. They even stated that they will use AOSP UI in the early stage of transition to make everything go smoothly so there shouldn't have been anything for people to upset about in the first place.
3. Now people are mad at the fact that it looks like Android because apparently if the UI looks like the one from Android then the whole OS must be as well (big kek). And because the original report came out from Ars, everyone believes it without performing a fact check on it.

Having a correct knowledge is important, guys.

If you dismiss the Ars article as judging the OS solely by its UI, then either you haven't read it and you're trolling for Huawei, or you're lying and you're trolling for Huawei.

Yes, they also went through the DevEco SDK & .hap files and complained about its similarity to Android Studio & .apk respectively (Makes sense because they will be using Android subsystem to interact with users at least for now), and then falsely claimed that "the original page for the ARK Compiler now 404s" and " Huawei's repository for the ARK Compiler is dead". The original page is still accessible through mobile browsers (The security certificate for the website is incorrectly configured and desktop browsers reject the connection), and they moved all the codes of the compiler to a different repo so everything still remains there and gets updated regularly.

Ugh, but, devinfo reports that it runs on Android 10, not HarmonyOS! Oh wait, all apps run on Android subsystem so of course it recognises it as Android. It has ADB and all the Android system components too! .....again, Android system is used for user interaction.

At last thanks for your personal insults, you think I'm trolling for Huawei because I called out Ars for some notable inaccuracies in their original article. Hats off to your flawless logic! Big hug for you<3

Quote from: Bruh on February 07, 2021, 02:22:09
A summary using simple words:
1. Huawei introduced Harmony OS as a base that you can run anything you want on top of it.
2. For their mobile devices, they chose Android system as the component that runs on top of Harmony OS to attract Android app developers. They even stated that they will use AOSP UI in the early stage of transition to make everything go smoothly so there shouldn't have been anything for people to upset about in the first place.
3. Now people are mad at the fact that it looks like Android because apparently if the UI looks like the one from Android then the whole OS must be as well (big kek). And because the original report came out from Ars, everyone believes it without performing a fact check on it.

Having a correct knowledge is important, guys.

If you dismiss the Ars article as judging the OS solely by its UI, then either you haven't read it and you're trolling for Huawei, or you're lying and you're trolling for Huawei.

A summary using simple words:
1. Huawei introduced Harmony OS as a base that you can run anything you want on top of it.
2. For their mobile devices, they chose Android system as the component that runs on top of Harmony OS to attract Android app developers. They even stated that they will use AOSP UI in the early stage of transition to make everything go smoothly so there shouldn't have been anything for people to upset about in the first place.
3. Now people are mad at the fact that it looks like Android because apparently if the UI looks like the one from Android then the whole OS must be as well (big kek). And because the original report came out from Ars, everyone believes it without performing a fact check on it.

Having a correct knowledge is important, guys.

Quote from: JZVR on February 06, 2021, 07:47:40

Quote from: S.Yu on February 05, 2021, 21:19:52

Quote from: JZVR on February 05, 2021, 13:46:31

Quote from: AndyChow on February 04, 2021, 15:35:48
HarmonyOS is a pure clone of Android 10. The so-called New microkernel was never built, and the kernel is neither new or micro. It's 100% the Android kernel with no modification.
Now, Android did use linux at it's base, but they've always made their SDK public and released all code publicly. Meanwhile HarmonyOS is illegally closed source, because they haven't had the time to rebrand the code and pretend they wrote it.
They can spin in anyway they want, invent whatever story, it's a rebranded clone, with identical structure and kernel.

So how is Harmony OS running hap files then instead of just being able to run apk ones? There's an hap installation of the JD.com app running on Harmony OS already. Do any of you claiming this ridiculous stuff actually know anything about coding/kernels at all?

Why are these anonymous trolls not held accountable? Why aren't their IP addresses public? For all we know it could be one troll behind all these handles. At least force them to use VPNs when posing as different people? The Ars article already made it very clear that unzipping the hap revealed a bunch of Android code, nothing else. A grade school kid could come up with an unused extension to disguise a zip file.

Lol show me some Android devices that can do this then?

Search for "Here's what Android cannot do but HarmonyOS 2.0 can, the power of distributed technology [Video]"

There's a video on the page. When you find Android devices with their monolithic kernels that can do this let me know.

Why aren't trolls like you who can't bring anything technical to the table held accountable with your IP made public? For all we know it could be the same troll behind all these posts. If you're going to troll at least learn the basics first.

This troll calls changing extension names technical, goes to show what level it trolls at. When you have an account with thousands of tracable comments across years like mine it might be worth considering whether or not you shall be judged by anything other than your grade school work here. And breaking compatibility is as simple as minor change in syntax, good try trolling for Huawei, try harder next time.

Quote from: S.Yu on February 05, 2021, 21:19:52

Quote from: JZVR on February 05, 2021, 13:46:31

Quote from: AndyChow on February 04, 2021, 15:35:48
HarmonyOS is a pure clone of Android 10. The so-called New microkernel was never built, and the kernel is neither new or micro. It's 100% the Android kernel with no modification.
Now, Android did use linux at it's base, but they've always made their SDK public and released all code publicly. Meanwhile HarmonyOS is illegally closed source, because they haven't had the time to rebrand the code and pretend they wrote it.
They can spin in anyway they want, invent whatever story, it's a rebranded clone, with identical structure and kernel.

So how is Harmony OS running hap files then instead of just being able to run apk ones? There's an hap installation of the JD.com app running on Harmony OS already. Do any of you claiming this ridiculous stuff actually know anything about coding/kernels at all?

Why are these anonymous trolls not held accountable? Why aren't their IP addresses public? For all we know it could be one troll behind all these handles. At least force them to use VPNs when posing as different people? The Ars article already made it very clear that unzipping the hap revealed a bunch of Android code, nothing else. A grade school kid could come up with an unused extension to disguise a zip file.

Lol show me some Android devices that can do this then?

Search for "Here's what Android cannot do but HarmonyOS 2.0 can, the power of distributed technology [Video]"

There's a video on the page. When you find Android devices with their monolithic kernels that can do this let me know.

Why aren't trolls like you who can't bring anything technical to the table held accountable with your IP made public? For all we know it could be the same troll behind all these posts. If you're going to troll at least learn the basics first.

Lol show me some Android devices that can do this then?

Search for "Here's what Android cannot do but HarmonyOS 2.0 can, the power of distributed technology [Video]"

There's a video on the page. When you find Android devices with their monolithic kernels that can do this let me know.

Why aren't trolls like you who can't bring anything technical to the table held accountable with your IP made public? For all we know it could be the same troll behind all these posts. If you're going to troll at least learn the basics first.

Quote from: JZVR on February 05, 2021, 13:46:31

Quote from: AndyChow on February 04, 2021, 15:35:48
HarmonyOS is a pure clone of Android 10. The so-called New microkernel was never built, and the kernel is neither new or micro. It's 100% the Android kernel with no modification.
Now, Android did use linux at it's base, but they've always made their SDK public and released all code publicly. Meanwhile HarmonyOS is illegally closed source, because they haven't had the time to rebrand the code and pretend they wrote it.
They can spin in anyway they want, invent whatever story, it's a rebranded clone, with identical structure and kernel.

So how is Harmony OS running hap files then instead of just being able to run apk ones? There's an hap installation of the JD.com app running on Harmony OS already. Do any of you claiming this ridiculous stuff actually know anything about coding/kernels at all?

Why are these anonymous trolls not held accountable? Why aren't their IP addresses public? For all we know it could be one troll behind all these handles. At least force them to use VPNs when posing as different people? The Ars article already made it very clear that unzipping the hap revealed a bunch of Android code, nothing else. A grade school kid could come up with an unused extension to disguise a zip file.

HarmonyOS 2.0 Beta can be delivered to those devices Over The Air, if you can sign up on this page (note: it's in Chinese). If approved, you will receive a confirmation email and the update will be pushed to your phone or tablet a couple of days after that. You will find installation instructions on that page as well.

Just don't expect the UI to look all that different – Harmony and EMUI share a lot of code. Really, it's what's under the hood that is different. In fact, Harmony can run Android apps just fine. If you're curious to see the OS run on real hardware, here it is installed on a Huawei P40.

Huawei isn't relying on just Android apps, however. It announced a developer competition with awards totaling CNY 1.5 million ($230,000) for new apps for Harmony. The company released an IDE plus an emulator for devs to make testing easier.

Plus, HarmonyOS does include many new features. A core design idea for the OS is to power what Huawei calls "Internet of Everything", meaning the UI needs to adjust to many different screens (phone, tablet, car and so on). To that end, developers can use over 50 highly-adaptable Distributed UI controls.

The phones that are supported currently are: Huawei P40, P40 Pro, Mate 30 (and the 5G version) and Mate 30 Pro (and its 5G version). One tablet can install the new OS too, the Huawei MatePad Pro (Wi-Fi and LTE models, plus the 5G one).


sound like trumpster are really scare of wumao