Quote from: Jony on January 16, 2021, 16:09:35
The US is one but also Canada and Australia and a number of EU countries that I visited. The US is not the only western country.

Quote from: heffeque on January 15, 2021, 22:28:23

Quote from: Popo on January 15, 2021, 14:51:12
Oh well, Xiaomi never had any real Western presence anyway. Seems like anything the CCP touches is crap anyway.

I guess by "Western" you mean the US, because Europe is full of Xiaomi phones (and probably Latin America too, though I can't confirm). Worldwide, Xiaomi sold more phones than Apple (though obviously with much lower margins).

Please, let us know what countries in the EU you visited where nobody had Xiaomi phones. I'm interested.

Quote from: Jony on January 16, 2021, 19:23:17
I don't see it that way. I don't live in the US and I don't attribute an undue amount of importance on the US. You misunderstood.

The key to effective and positive competition is to recognize one's strengths. The US, with its tighter environmental, labour and market regulations is not a place where cheaper products can be effectively made. Making products at different price segments is much more than just the hardware, for which suppliers charge a fixed price regardless of the country of assembly. The main differentiator is price of labour and costs of business. Xiaomi's business model has been to barely break even on the price of their goods (see Wikipedia for an excellent summary). That is a business model that is not competitive in the US, or Canada, or Australia, or New Zealand, or anywhere in the EU. That is a business model that is suitable for places where labour is extremely cheap and other costs (externalities) of business are also correspondingly low.

It is not about the US can't compete. There is nothing unique about China's technical advantages and mainly scales of manufacturing, the advantage is almost entirely socioeconomic (low labour prices) and environmental (lax regulations and rich supply of dirty minerals and metals). Unless the west like the US and the EU lowers their socioeconomic status to that of China, or India, there is just no practical way to lower product prices such that they can compete in the same segment. As far as I know, most people living in the west would not want that, and therefore, that route is not feasible.

Quote from: AlexS on January 16, 2021, 18:25:32
You both have a unreal sense of inflated importance. The world is multipolar not dependent on US.
And if you don't do stuff for common people something that Samsung is able to there is a great deal of influence - and feedback - lost. Basically means US capitalism is for the few while Korean and  Chinese capitalism is for everyone. I have been noticing that more and more US companies frown up being on a market for the public and prefer to sell to governments and other companies...
Xiaomi is the 3rd smartphone seller in Europe, after Samsung 1st and Apple 2nd. Not even a competing company to Apple exist in US.

It's not that simple, since China has a far greater portion of the supply chain than the US, companies situated in China are more flexible in a number of areas, Chinese also do have a culture of working very hard, for example the 996 work week of 9am-9pm, 6 days per week is the norm in China's most competitive companies like Tencent and Alibaba. Most such employees already earn more than their western counterparts but such work intensity is unimaginable at Google, Microsoft etc. There are also other policy based advantages that boost economy of scale at the cost of freedoms, and of course without asking the people's opinion, this is effectively unique to the CCP regime because the only others who could even attempt it are Russia and NK but neither have the other advantages that could help the economy take off.

There are also ways for the US to increase competitiveness but it simply won't pass congress because it would involve a series of fundamental reforms that can effectively cut Latin American illegals out of a path to citizenship instead giving them long term work visas to make use of the labor but keep the social welfare costs in check, even though it makes every sense for the US there would be no way to package that so the SJWs or even some moderates could accept, even as the laborers would already be paid far more than what they could otherwise bargain for so it's a win-win anyway. So in the long term, the US would probably still need to rely on automation to rebuild its secondary industry, provided it could hold out against China for that long.

I don't see it that way. I don't live in the US and I don't attribute an undue amount of importance on the US. You misunderstood.

The key to effective and positive competition is to recognize one's strengths. The US, with its tighter environmental, labour and market regulations is not a place where cheaper products can be effectively made. Making products at different price segments is much more than just the hardware, for which suppliers charge a fixed price regardless of the country of assembly. The main differentiator is price of labour and costs of business. Xiaomi's business model has been to barely break even on the price of their goods (see Wikipedia for an excellent summary). That is a business model that is not competitive in the US, or Canada, or Australia, or New Zealand, or anywhere in the EU. That is a business model that is suitable for places where labour is extremely cheap and other costs (externalities) of business are also correspondingly low.

It is not about the US can't compete. There is nothing unique about China's technical advantages and mainly scales of manufacturing, the advantage is almost entirely socioeconomic (low labour prices) and environmental (lax regulations and rich supply of dirty minerals and metals). Unless the west like the US and the EU lowers their socioeconomic status to that of China, or India, there is just no practical way to lower product prices such that they can compete in the same segment. As far as I know, most people living in the west would not want that, and therefore, that route is not feasible.

Quote from: AlexS on January 16, 2021, 18:25:32
You both have a unreal sense of inflated importance. The world is multipolar not dependent on US.
And if you don't do stuff for common people something that Samsung is able to there is a great deal of influence - and feedback - lost. Basically means US capitalism is for the few while Korean and  Chinese capitalism is for everyone. I have been noticing that more and more US companies frown up being on a market for the public and prefer to sell to governments and other companies...
Xiaomi is the 3rd smartphone seller in Europe, after Samsung 1st and Apple 2nd. Not even a competing company to Apple exist in US.

You both have a unreal sense of inflated importance. The world is multipolar not dependent on US.
And if you don't do stuff for common people something that Samsung is able to there is a great deal of influence - and feedback - lost. Basically means US capitalism is for the few while Korean and  Chinese capitalism is for everyone. I have been noticing that more and more US companies frown up being on a market for the public and prefer to sell to governments and other companies...
Xiaomi is the 3rd smartphone seller in Europe, after Samsung 1st and Apple 2nd. Not even a competing company to Apple exist in US.

Quote from: Jony on January 16, 2021, 16:12:43
"If that so why USA is incapable of being competitive with them, it should be easy, no? What US company competes with Xiaomi or Huawei?"

When did the US express a desire to compete with Xiaomi? Huawei can't get much of its components and software without US supply, so I think this Chinese competitiveness is really propped up by the US and by themselves, they would still be stuck in the pre-Nixon era.

Not everyone needs to compete in everything. I can't see any value for first world countries to compete on the cheapest product segments and selling them in third world countries. That just doesn't make sense. Apple is the closest to Xiaomi and Xiaomi copied a lot of design, hardware and software things from Apple (Xiaomi's laptops for example). So what exactly is Apple going to be able to copy from Xiaomi? Not a lot that would make sense in markets that Apple caters to. The Saudis compete in the oil market, but Norway wouldn't compete with them at these prices. Doing business smart is not doing business in bulk.

"If that so why USA is incapable of being competitive with them, it should be easy, no? What US company competes with Xiaomi or Huawei?"

When did the US express a desire to compete with Xiaomi? Huawei can't get much of its components and software without US supply, so I think this Chinese competitiveness is really propped up by the US and by themselves, they would still be stuck in the pre-Nixon era.

The US is one but also Canada and Australia and a number of EU countries that I visited. The US is not the only western country.

Quote from: heffeque on January 15, 2021, 22:28:23

Quote from: Popo on January 15, 2021, 14:51:12
Oh well, Xiaomi never had any real Western presence anyway. Seems like anything the CCP touches is crap anyway.

I guess by "Western" you mean the US, because Europe is full of Xiaomi phones (and probably Latin America too, though I can't confirm). Worldwide, Xiaomi sold more phones than Apple (though obviously with much lower margins).

"It is USA is isolating themselves because they have no competition to these Chinese phones that all the world buys."

The US is not a production type of economy like China. They do not need to compete in the same price bracket as China and so don't need to devolve regulations and life quality standards to meet Chinese produce. The US traditionally produces leading edge tech that then becomes mass market driven by the likes of the Chinese.

"Oh well, Xiaomi never had any real Western presence anyway. Seems like anything the CCP touches is crap anyway. "

Sorry but that is is really ignorant. Seems you live in a bubble.
It is USA is isolating themselves because they have no competition to these Chinese phones that all the world buys.
Crap? If that so why USA is incapable of being competitive with them, it should be easy, no? What US company competes with Xiaomi or Huawei?

Quote from: Popo on January 15, 2021, 14:51:12
Oh well, Xiaomi never had any real Western presence anyway. Seems like anything the CCP touches is crap anyway.

I guess by "Western" you mean the US, because Europe is full of Xiaomi phones (and probably Latin America too, though I can't confirm). Worldwide, Xiaomi sold more phones than Apple (though obviously with much lower margins).

Can't really trust Xiaomi anymore !
When a company like Alibaba ( and ANT group) has to unwilling bow down to the State, there's no way Xiaomi can battle them, even if they were trying to be not associated with the Party in the first place.

Quote from: LHPSU on January 15, 2021, 15:58:13
The only reason your Oppo, Vivo, Realme haven't been blacklisted yet is because Trump doesn't know they exist.

Not really. BBK is a huge group, like Alibaba. It takes some time for the CCP to acquire tight control over a corporation. Xiaomi was dead in the water in this regard, since it has been part of the party since its foundation

The only reason your Oppo, Vivo, Realme haven't been blacklisted yet is because Trump doesn't know they exist.

China, is one of the few things Trump is right about.
COMAC is a serial offender when it comes to stealing technology without any consequences - https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/300313-report-chinas-new-comac-c919-jetliner-is-built-with-stolen-technology
- https://fortune.com/2019/10/19/chinese-hacking-plane-stolen-tech-cyber-saturday/   ...Good thing they were blacklisted, better would have been prosecution

..and Xiaomi has always been able to sell phones for so cheap, no one can't wrap their heads around it. Even its other bang-for-buck Chinese peers like Oppo, Vivo, Realme haven't been able to match the prices of products like Poco F2 Pro, Redmi K30 series or the Mi 10i / 10 lite etc..
There is something else going on ,..behind the scenes - https://www.cnet.com/news/xiaomi-defends-data-practices-after-being-accused-of-tracking-private-phone-use/

Ten bucks says Lenovo is banned by the end of next week