OMG. You people sound like a bunch of spoiled brats. If any of you are so in need to fully charge your laptop every damn day, why the hell aren't you on a desktop then? If you are using your computer that much you should be using the best possible one, your desktop.

God, y'all spend 5 to 10 times as much as the desktop equivalent and then egads, the battery, oh noes. If you dished out the 4 or 5k a battery replacement is a drop in the bucket. Oh noez. I can only buy 400 battery replacements for the cost of my laptop. Oh noez.

Maybe re-evaluate your computer use and figure out why you are laptop-ing all day instead of sitting behind a desk using a real computer.

With the increasingly stupid money the big companies want for their laptops I expect more MUCH more.

I wonder if that anything to do with the steadily rising maximum cell voltages. I've noticed my dell xps 9350 was sold with a 52Wh battery. Then the next model was sold with a 56Wh with the same dimensions only it charges to a slightly higher voltage. Then the next model was sold with a 60Wh battery, same dimensions but a higher voltage. If the chemistry isn't changing and all batteries are charged to peak then the 52Wh would outlive the 60Wh.

Last time I checked, Macbook Pros have a 1000 charge cycle lifespan for their batteries. I can't believe that on a machine as expensive as the Dell XPS, they still only provide batteries that last 300 cycles. 

I'm not sure why everyone is so upset as this is nothing new for Dell. The 300 charge cycle for batteries has been standard for XPS models since at least the 9550 from 4 years ago (I only checked back that far). This data is available on Dell's support website so I wont bother linking here.

My personal experience is that my 7390 which I bought on December 2nd 2019, has lost only 1% of its max capacity in about 6 months as my secondary computer. My previous 9560 lost 15% in 2.5 years as my primary computer.

Quote from: A on May 23, 2020, 21:23:59
More than likely, the Dell uses a 1000 cycle battery too, but all that heat it gives off lowers it down to 300 cycles.

I really wish they made non-removable batteries illegal. I know US won't but what about Europe who is more concerned about ewaste?

I very much doubt it. For one, it would be very conservative of them (pay for a 1000 cycle battery and claim only 300 cycles). And I don't think they account for accelerated wear from heat at all. That's, essentially, your problem. You could argue about it, especially since Dell really likes baking their laptops, but battery is considered a consumable. That's why they carry a much shorter warranty. There is no guarantee that the specifications will hold for adverse conditions. In the EU, it would be very hard to win that argument in court. Perhaps in the US where courts are more tolerant of stupidity and ignorance. Also, given the battery replacement program Dell has, 300 cycles would, unfortunately, be within reason.

While I like conveniently removable batteries, why exactly? As long as it's replaceable, it shouldn't be a concern for the environment. Having to undo a few standard screws and a connector isn't a problem (unless too flimsy). Sealing devices, thoroughly gluing batteries or refusing to sell replacements, that's a problem. Of course, usage of a crappy 300 cycle battery is a concern for the environment. One would hope for a longer lifespan in a laptop. A single 1000 cycle battery is surely better than three 300 cycle batteries. Apple has been using 1000 cycle batteries since something like 2008. And not just in laptops.

Crap is exactly what I think of such batteries. Still, the crazy wear rates some people claim are not consistent even with such crappy batteries. There has to be a user factor and it indeed is possible to kill a battery pretty quickly. They're far from fool proof. That's a big reason for their pretty short warranties. Manufacturers don't want to pay for user's ignorance or negligence. Nor do they want to shoulder the burden of proof.

Quote from: youdir on May 23, 2020, 18:24:55
Are the methodologies comparable between Apple and Dell though? How each company's assessment methodology works, no one knows. Temperature, extent of charge, charging logic design all factor into the longevity of the battery. Without much of this information and specific constraints on how the batteries were tested, we can't know.

While this can vary, generally everybody uses the same basic methodology. We're talking about cell/ battery manufacturers, not laptop manufacturers. Dell can measure how long the laptop lasts, but the battery specification will be coming from the battery manufacturer. Generally, they discharge batteries at 1 C rate from 100 % down to 0 % nominal SoC. The rest is more vague. For example, the battery should be at room temperature at the beginning, but you don't know which temperature exactly. I believe they charge at 1 C as well (only in the constant current phase, of course), but not entirely sure. Once the amount of energy extracted in a cycle drops below 80 % of nominal, you're finished. 1 C rate means that if you have an X ampere hour battery, you'll draw X amperes which should result in the battery lasting one hour. These values are often quite removed from the actual application (you often draw way less than 1 C although laptops are one example that actually can achieve 1 C in practice). And they can specify multiple values. 1 C rates are the most common. Same goes for capacity. Generally, it's capacity for 1 C rate. These finer details get lost when they translate data from data sheets for engineers into data sheets for consumers. This is not just about saving money but also about making the thing thinner and lighter (speaking in general).

What a shame, Dell..

Generally speaking batteries must be easily replaceable.

Quote from: Sterlinger on May 24, 2020, 07:46:20
I have checked my 8 years old long life battery from HP, still good to use, it also has 300 cycles max so this is nothing Dell invented. It even has only used 66 cycles of this 300 in 8 years (power chord always on, rarely used, but after self discharge below X % it is charged automatically of course)

so, I think this 300 is some value but not a big problem and it says nothing about capacity after a few months and health after a few years (?)

That was 8 years ago! Things change. 300 cycles is miserable today.
You charged your laptop only 66 times in 8 years, but why do you think all of us use laptops tied to the wall all the time??
Lots of people often carry their laptops around and can't keep them plugged in all the time, some almost every day. What are we supposed to do - buy a new battery every year???
This is so, so cheap from Dell!

Cutting corners and being cheap again aren't you Dell. This new shiny laptop, let's see if they fix garbage no S3 sleep and poping audio due to DPC latency problem since 9550. laptop cost nearly 2k should be able to sleep properly and don't need to be put in hibernation every time. Dell softwares and firmware are Joe. Fix that

I have an XPS 15 9550. Most glitchy laptop ever. Firmware problems cause BSOD, after all these years they remain unfixed. For a top of the line laptop or bottom of the line laptop, it sucks. HDMI doesn't carry audio, Dell crapware you can't get rid of, I could go on all day. I'm a Windows user but my next laptop will be a MacBook that I'll run Windows on.

Dells are just that bad now days. If they release something with issues, they don't give a damn and will waste consumers time before fixing firmware or even admitting there is a problem.

I have checked my 8 years old long life battery from HP, still good to use, it also has 300 cycles max so this is nothing Dell invented. It even has only used 66 cycles of this 300 in 8 years (power chord always on, rarely used, but after self discharge below X % it is charged automatically of course)

so, I think this 300 is some value but not a big problem and it says nothing about capacity after a few months and health after a few years (?)

I am looking for a new laptop and was seriously considering Dell first then Lenovo second.  Not anymore.  I hate non-replaceable battery devices!

That's terrible. I really wanted to love this one, Dell has been getting so much right, the move to 16:10, the larger trackpad that by all accounts is second only to the mac, and retaining the upgradeable RAM and two m.2 slots after the redesign were all great.

But 300 cycles on a machine this high end is not acceptable. Apple shifted to 1000 cycle ratings on all Macbooks since 2011ish iirc, and several manufacturers followed or at least are in the 500-700 cycle range. 300 is what I would have expected from high end systems only a literal decade ago or low end ones now, particularly as it's not an easy external swap, hopefully it's still easy and not glued in or anything.

Lenovo is in the same boat apparently. Brand new laptop. Battery lost about 5-10% of its full capacity within the first two, three months. I've replaced it, but the replacement did exactly the same thing. Then I've found out the battery carries just 6 months warranty unlike the laptop that has a 24 month warranty. F lenovo as well.