I have the similar Clevo NH58AC with 32GB Kingston HyperX RAM, 2 NVMe SSDs, one SATA III SSD, GTX1660Ti 6GB graphics card.  It definitely was running hot and fans needed to be on max to manage it most of the time right out of the box.  Undervolting to 1.1V and 4100Mhz has idle temps at 55 - 58C, about 10 degrees lower than before.  I actually had it all the way down to 1.0125 and 3900Mhz and idling at 45-50C, but streaming video would go out of sync with audio over 4 or 5 minutes.  I may save a separate profile just for youtube and keep temps down even more for general use.  Fans never ramp up with settings as they are now, and temps do not spike into territory that makes me nervous.  Even with undervolting, the performance blows away any other laptop processor,.

Sell in notebook desktop PC form , without keyboard and LCD . pair with 200mm x 2  cooling fan , run slow speed to reduce noise . Battery are good incase power failure still have 1 hour backup life .

if sell in notebook , battery should be 6-8 hours for web , wifi , paper work.

Update: the review has been updated with improved DPC latency values and other tweaks. We still have a slight discrepency regarding Idle power consumption and battery life but that's OK.

Additional reviews are planned at other press outlets and Youtube channels.

Cheers,
Tom

PSA: our main reply post has been updated with additional data on Idle power consumption, DPC latencies and boot time. An update on fan curves is available now and will be shared with Notebookcheck shortly.

Cheers,
Tom

Quote from: nr4334387 on May 07, 2020, 21:49:12

Quote20 Gbit would be USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 as far as i know. USB 3.2 Gen 2 is just USB 3.1 Gen 2:

Oh, yeah you're right! Thanks for pointing that out. Also makes it kind of a shame because all other laptop manufacturers merely state "USB 3.1 Gen 2". Which makes it seem like this laptop has more to offer when it actually doesn't. I do hope they didn't do this on purpose.
Or maybe they are 2x2 after all? ;)

No problem. I hate the USB consortium for the naming scheme. It creates so much confusion. Why not just use USB 1, USB 2, USB 3 and USB 4 etc. with new features every generation? I don`t get it.

Man, I wish I had registered so I could possibly edit/delete. Just noticed that most laptops offer USB 3.1 Gen 1, not gen 2. So I guess one does get a little more juice here.

Quote20 Gbit would be USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 as far as i know. USB 3.2 Gen 2 is just USB 3.1 Gen 2:

Oh, yeah you're right! Thanks for pointing that out. Also makes it kind of a shame because all other laptop manufacturers merely state "USB 3.1 Gen 2". Which makes it seem like this laptop has more to offer when it actually doesn't. I do hope they didn't do this on purpose.
Or maybe they are 2x2 after all? ;)

Quote from: nr4334387 on May 07, 2020, 21:17:05
Are you sure about those USB specifications?
You write:

Quotethree USB 3.1 gen 2 ports, one of which is in Type C

But at least in their shop, it is:

Quote2x USB-A 3.2 Gen2
1x USB-C 3.2 Gen2

Which, you know - 20 Gbit vs. 10 Gbit...

20 Gbit would be USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 as far as i know. USB 3.2 Gen 2 is just USB 3.1 Gen 2:

https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/usb_3_2_language_product_and_packaging_guidelines_final.pdf

Quote from: william blake on May 07, 2020, 18:20:25

Quote from: MOFO on May 07, 2020, 14:35:43
Whats worse is your ridiculous hot takes and your posts on laptop coolers and your "ideal" gaming laptop.
Your pathetic

and you has extremely low iq, zero sense of humor, you are a garbage person and a total noob.
i can explain each of my points even if these 4 conclusions are made from your single message.

Oooooo we have a computer master here.
Please tell me more about myself that I don't know but you obviously do.
Please tell me Mr. computer master because we know nothing even though I've worked with computers and laptops for over 25 years.
Please explain to me how computers work

Are you sure about those USB specifications?
You write:

Quotethree USB 3.1 gen 2 ports, one of which is in Type C

But at least in their shop, it is:

Quote2x USB-A 3.2 Gen2
1x USB-C 3.2 Gen2

Which, you know - 20 Gbit vs. 10 Gbit...

wilaam blake do not liek comptuer

Quote from: william blake on May 07, 2020, 14:16:58
not sure which one is worse, this one or last one with 9700k.
more performance,better screen and ssd versus more quieter and thunderbolt..wait a minute 87% vs 81% rating? its like this one is very meh but that one is very good?
and the ratings are hidden!
should we ban notebookcheck from the internet? he causes drama for sure.

William blind would be better or William blank!?
It's just version 7 of rating.
Notebookcheck is the best ant the most reliable website.

Hi everyone,

we already have a new EC/BIOS with adapted fan curves and performance profiles in the pipeline. As soon as this is available, we will also document the exact changes here.

If you are interested, more links:
- Megathread with FAQ
- Extensive video review from an Early Adopter first owner

In the review we have spotted the following points of critique:

1. High idle consumption of 60W

This value does not correspond to our internal measurements and customer feedback. We are at an average of 40W in idle which also leads to a higher battery life. This also has a positive effect on the fan noise at low load.

Comparison test

Sample with serial production with Ryzen 5 3600, 2x8GB 2666, NVMe SSD, Windows 1909 and all current drivers. Measured at the power outlet with full battery.

QuoteMinimum: all additional modules are off (Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, etc.), minimum brightness, and Windows power plan is set to "Energy Saving".
Medium: maximum brightness, additional modules off, Windows power plan: "Balanced".
Maximum: maximum power consumption while notebook is idle. All modules are on (Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, etc.), maximum brightness and power plan set to "High Performance".

It is not clear why the Review 59W has a 'median' value.

It's currently unclear why we see 60W in the review. Some possibilities:
- Measurement software in the background, keeps CPU from sleep state?
- BIOS problems, reset necessary?
- Control Center reinstallation necessary because Windows energy profiles have become tangled?
- Connected peripherals?
- Other problems?


2. Fan control in idle or at low load

This is partly due to the point of idle energy consumption, which we cannot confirm.

Otherwise, there is another phenomenon here: AMD offers a hotspot-based CPU temperature reading by default, which is very hectic and not suitable for laptops. Igor Wallossek writes about this in an article:

QuoteAMD's feedback of the internal sensors is partly quite absurd and therefore less suitable for mobile devices.

The jittery Tctl/Tdie values alone are a real problem, as the 50 sensors per CCD tend to report false values and short-term hotspots often enough, which mutate the current notebooks into fan howling buoys. Intel had this years ago, but while such a normal 12cm fan in the PC gallantly ironed out these spikes by its own inertia, the small and fast reacting fans of the notebooks with their very large speed range are a willing victim for acoustic missteps.

We'll examine whether we can use an alternative measured value for the fan control on EC level, calculated as an average over the entire CPU.

Such a change would have virtually no effect on situations under full load. But we could better avoid the occasionally exaggeratedly appearing turning on of the fans with it.

In addition to this measure, a further update of the fan curve is currently in progress. A corresponding BIOS update should already be available next week for testing.


3. DPC latencies

We confirm the DPC values of Notebookcheck - but only in 'Entertainment' mode.

The DPC latencies can easily be improved by switching to the 'Performance' profile in Control Center. Then you'll have values in the green range for hours. LatencyMon constantly shows "Your system appears to be suitable for handling real-time audio and other tasks without dropouts".

Sample:

(https://download.schenker-tech.de/media/products/xmg-apex-15_e20/apex15_dpc_performance-mode_587.png)

The difference between 'Entertainment' and 'Performance' is probably due to the energy saving functions (SpeedShift etc.) of the CPU. We'll see if these can be set for the 'Entertainment' profile in Windows with a few simple steps.

As you can see in the table above, the 'Performance' profile in idle is only 4W above the 'Entertainment' profile. The differences in the fan control actually only become noticeable under 100% full load, which usually doesn't happen in music production. A less aggressive fan curve for the 'Performance' profile can be set manually in the Control Center - in case you want to make the 'Performance' profile your standard for professional use.


4. Boot time

We currently have a cold boot time of about 18 seconds between pressing the power button and the login screen appearing on a NVMe SSD with Fast Boot enabled by default. Waking up from sleep mode (Hibernate, S4) with 16GB RAM is on the same level. Waking up from standby (power save, sleep, S3) takes about 5-6 seconds from the moment you open the lid.

Most of the boot and hibernate time is spent in BIOS P.O.S.T. Some Ultrabooks can do better, but for a desktop system this should be acceptable.


Concluding remarks

XMG APEX 15 has so much power that I'd suggest to run it permanently in 'Quiet' mode in everyday life. Even for occasional gaming this is more than enough, especially since most games are not CPU-limited. If you want more, you can quickly switch to a higher performance profile with the key combination Fn+3.

The sweet spot of the system efficiency is the 'Entertainment' profile. The CPU peak performance achieved there (which is far beyond that of other, often more expensive laptops) is achieved with relatively little additional power consumption. These sweet spots have already been adequately investigated in large-scale reviews of the Ryzen 3000 series in desktop systems.

The 'Performance' mode (which was used in the review for the rather loud 'The Witcher 3' test) is not really intended for gaming but rather for really deep and long 100% CPU+CUDA rendering sessions. In the 'Performance' profile the system performance really hits its theoretical peak. The CPU then consume up to 88W (beyond the 65W TDP specification) with about 115W consumed by the GPU. This is where the law of diminishing returns comes into play: at a certain point, more power is purchased with disproportionately high energy consumption.

The upcoming BIOS and fan curve updates will only affect the other 3 performance profiles. The 'Performance' profile (you could also call it the 'Overclocking' profile) will remain mostly untouched as peak performance.

We are looking forward to your feedback and questions!

Cheers,
Tom Fichtner
Product Management

Quote from: MOFO on May 07, 2020, 14:35:43
Whats worse is your ridiculous hot takes and your posts on laptop coolers and your "ideal" gaming laptop.
Your pathetic

and you has extremely low iq, zero sense of humor, you are a garbage person and a total noob.
i can explain each of my points even if these 4 conclusions are made from your single message.

Quote from: Florian Glaser on May 07, 2020, 15:14:17
Ultra 15 has rating-version 6, this has rating-version 7.

nice. understandable. exactly like userbenchmark changed his ratings and caused drama :)